What Russia’s Stealth Fighter Developments Mean for America

[jagjitnatt]

No...I do not think that they are idiots. But we do know that they are constrained by the overall design for the placements of inlet ducts.

Constrained? I don't think so. They designed it in such a way. They could have very easily moved the internal weapon bays to make room for air tunnel. What do u think?

 

[gambit]

Constrained? I don't think so. They designed it in such a way. They could have very easily moved the internal weapon bays to make room for air tunnel. What do u think?

They could...But that would also affect fuel and weapons load. All design groups are constrained in the sense that they are working on a structure that already has serious limits and compromises from inception. A radar size requirement clashes with fuselage dimensions and allocations for other avionics equipments, for example. Once a layout is agreed upon, all groups must conform their systems to that layout.

 

[jagjitnatt]

They could...But that would also affect fuel and weapons load. All design groups are constrained in the sense that they are working on a structure that already has serious limits and compromises from inception. A radar size requirement clashes with fuselage dimensions and allocations for other avionics equipments, for example. Once a layout is agreed upon, all groups must conform their systems to that layout.

Yes they would. But most important thing with every design is it meeting the design requirements. If the design isn't stealthy, there's no point to it.

Fuel and weapons load might be affected, but then there are ways to correct that too. They could have configured the intakes in a number of ways. They didn't and still went ahead with the project. That means only a couple of things.

1. They have found a way to make the aircraft stealthy.
2. They have gone nuts. lol

I believe the first possibility. I don't buy the argument that the engineers compromised on stealth on a 5th gen fighter aircraft.

 

[kingdurgaking]

one good thing on F-22 by view is its Air Intakes are almost blended to the height of internal bay.. which is not the case with PAK-FA which makes it look ugly..


What ever design it is .. if PAK-FA can bring down the overall maintenance cost as compared to its predecessor it is a successful design for Russian team..

 

[amalakas]

No...I do not think that they are idiots. But we do know that they are constrained by the overall design for the placements of inlet ducts.


You should know by now my opinions about that...

And you should know, that ITAE has published papers on how to reduce the RCS of inlet ducts on the S-27/30/35 planes and have "as they say" manage to do so. They have also managed to reduce the rcs contribution from the canopy btw.
So although the engines may not be the final ones, an alternative method might exist for them.

They could...But that would also affect fuel and weapons load. All design groups are constrained in the sense that they are working on a structure that already has serious limits and compromises from inception. A radar size requirement clashes with fuselage dimensions and allocations for other avionics equipments, for example. Once a layout is agreed upon, all groups must conform their systems to that layout.

and then they could go for a different design. That would be one of their primary goals.

Everyone on the plane community has been advertising how important hiding the compressor blades is, I think they would have picked up on it.

I understand how you can be sceptical, but a man of your background would wait before counting all his eggs.

 

[johnny boy]

With having a 763 billion dollar defense budget, which is just paper defense analysis have clearly stated the our defense budget goes into the trillion dollar mark. We have the best Scientists in the world working out our defense firms, LockHeed, Boeing, etc..US and Friends?? clearly you didn't read my segment, the U.S by itself is procuring over 2000 F-35 Variants for its 3 Armed forces, Army, Navy and AirForce. We will be phasing out our F-16s and F-18s by the year 2020-2025, so the clear substitute in replacing those Fighter Jets, is the F-35 II. When you're the U.S nothing is unrealistic.. 7 Deadly Sins huh? Lust, Greed, Wrath, Sloth, Envy, Pride, and Gluttony. I think I've done all of that, guess what I'm still here..

let me just see for how long the usa is going to sustain an economy deep down in recession and dollar sucking wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!btw these aggressive military policies and costly wars are a sign of decay!!!!!!!!!!analyze HISTORY IF U MAY.........THE GREEKS,ROMANS,MUGHALS,BRITISH ALL ARE A VICTIM OF THIS GREED................AND THE WAY I SEE IT .......................UR NEXT,,,,,,,,,,HA HA A ENJOY UR LAST DECADE OF SUPREMACY............

 

[aimarraul]

Yes they would. But most important thing with every design is it meeting the design requirements. If the design isn't stealthy, there's no point to it.

Fuel and weapons load might be affected, but then there are ways to correct that too. They could have configured the intakes in a number of ways. They didn't and still went ahead with the project. That means only a couple of things.

1. They have found a way to make the aircraft stealthy.
2. They have gone nuts. lol

I believe the first possibility. I don't buy the argument that the engineers compromised on stealth on a 5th gen fighter aircraft.

this may sounds crazy.Have anyone ever considered the possibility that russia is actually accumulating experience and money for another 5th or even 6th gen jet by developing/selling a quasi-5th gen jet ,the T-50 program was being delayed for so long because of the USSR's collapse,i don't think russia is really anxious to have a 5th gen jet,they have thousands nuclear warhead

 

[jagjitnatt]

this may sounds crazy.Have anyone ever considered the possibility that russia is actually accumulating experience and money for another 5th or even 6th gen jet by developing/selling a quasi-5th gen jet ,the T-50 program was being delayed for so long because of the USSR's collapse,i don't think russia is really anxious to have a 5th gen jet,they have thousands nuclear warhead

Yes, we've already thought about that and more. The thing is Russia is not USSR anymore. They are out of funds, and India funding the program is an opportunity for them to make 5th gen aircraft a reality. If they don't do it this time, they might never get the chance again since India and China are also working on their own 5th gen designs.

So they got an opportunity and they would like to make most of it. A quasi 5th gen aircraft would be acceptable to India, because India would go ahead with its own 5th gen, Russia might never get the funding again to build their own.

So T-50 is a 5th gen aircraft, may be not the best 5th gen, but yes a 5th gen in the end.

 

[sensenreason]

Yes, we've already thought about that and more. The thing is Russia is not USSR anymore. They are out of funds, and India funding the program is an opportunity for them to make 5th gen aircraft a reality. If they don't do it this time, they might never get the chance again since India and China are also working on their own 5th gen designs.

So they got an opportunity and they would like to make most of it. A quasi 5th gen aircraft would be acceptable to India, because India would go ahead with its own 5th gen, Russia might never get the funding again to build their own.

So T-50 is a 5th gen aircraft, may be not the best 5th gen, but yes a 5th gen in the end.

Sorry but have a genuine question...India has been using Mirage's and Sukhois for years and years now, why cant we reverse engineer it..when the Chinese have reverse engineered the Sukhoi's and sell it to others as well? Why?

 

[jagjitnatt]

Sorry but have a genuine question...India has been using Mirage's and Sukhois for years and years now, why cant we reverse engineer it..when the Chinese have reverse engineered the Sukhoi's and sell it to others as well? Why?

We can. Its not too tough. But we chose not to. We've learnt from these aircraft and used that experience in our own projects, but never tried to reverse engineer. Reverse engineering/cloning is a good method for the short term, but it has its problems too. No other country would be ready to share sensitive technologies with us, and we would but stuck with older tech.

China has been reverse engineering for quite some time now, but even then, they could not create a perfect clone. In fact J11 is nowhere near the Su27. There are parts which can not be reverse engineered. For those parts, they need to design from scratch. So its not very easy.

And we've already seen that no other country exports sensitive tech to China, and not even China's allies now. We don't want that happening to us, not at least until we are capable of making high tech products ourselves.

 

[Kinetic]

A good detailed article comparing PAK FA and FGFA with F-22 and F-35. Liked the stealth and decision support system parts.


But I think there is no chance of China getting PAK FA.

 

[amalakas]

That is a photoshopped photo, it was debunked on MP.net and key pubs a while ago. The engine blades are probably exposed but no where near what's shown in the picture.

I heard of that, but I have not read it myself. Can you direct us to that info please ?

 

[IND151]

let me just see for how long the usa is going to sustain an economy deep down in recession and dollar sucking wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!btw these aggressive military policies and costly wars are a sign of decay!!!!!!!!!!analyze HISTORY IF U MAY.........THE GREEKS,ROMANS,MUGHALS,BRITISH ALL ARE A VICTIM OF THIS GREED................AND THE WAY I SEE IT .......................UR NEXT,,,,,,,,,,HA HA A ENJOY UR LAST DECADE OF SUPREMACY............:rofl :

us loves wars coz they help her economy.dont forget american war spendings in ww two brought out us economy from depression.

 

[conworldus]

We can. Its not too tough. But we chose not to. We've learnt from these aircraft and used that experience in our own projects, but never tried to reverse engineer. Reverse engineering/cloning is a good method for the short term, but it has its problems too. No other country would be ready to share sensitive technologies with us, and we would but stuck with older tech.

China has been reverse engineering for quite some time now, but even then, they could not create a perfect clone. In fact J11 is nowhere near the Su27. There are parts which can not be reverse engineered. For those parts, they need to design from scratch. So its not very easy.

And we've already seen that no other country exports sensitive tech to China, and not even China's allies now. We don't want that happening to us, not at least until we are capable of making high tech products ourselves.

Where did you get that info or you are just bull sh-i-tting like most Indians do?

 

[amalakas]

Where did you get that info or you are just bull sh-i-tting like most Indians do?

no its true, the J11 has many problems. It is very hard to reverse engineer something. Very very hard.