What parts of the F-35 does Turkey make?

[FuturePAF]

www.dailysabah.com/business/defense/turkey-to-continue-manufacturing-f-35-components-through-2022-pentagon-says/amp

There are parts only Turkey makes, but I wanted to know if there is a list of all the parts Turkey makes? There maybe some technologies Turkey has already mastered which may convince Pakistan to pick the TFX over the J-31/35 if Turkey makes it, such as the S Shaped Air duct. It’s a very hard piece of engineering (needed to ensure air flow at all angles of attack while not exposing the engine blades to staying radar stealthy) even the Russians couldn’t get right on their Su-57.

If the Turks can match or exceed the Chinese and Russian engines, then that will also help the PAF pick the TFX over the J-31/35

 

[Figaro]

If the Turks can match or exceed the Chinese and Russian engines

A very very tall task ... people always underestimate the significant difficulty of creating gas turbines. Currently, I only see the US, UK, France, Germany, and China as capable of mass producing gas turbines on a large scale ... I believe Japan has created a demonstrator but it is only for that purpose and likely will never see production.

 

[FuturePAF]

A very very tall task ... people always underestimate the significant difficulty of creating gas turbines. Currently, I only see the US, UK, France, Germany, and China as capable of mass producing gas turbines on a large scale ... I believe Japan has created a demonstrator but it is only for that purpose and likely will never see production.

You are right, it is a very very tall task, but consider how far they have come on all other aspects of their TFX project and how vital and independent engine is, if they can even just copy the same capabilities and reliability of the GE F110, then it will be good enough to exceed the maximum thrust of the J-31/35 engines. The GE F110 -129 has a thrust to weight of 7.29, which maybe good enough for a twin engine fighter.

Considering all that they can produce and export if they can master engine technologies, they seem to be committed to trying to make it happen.

https://www.defensenews.com/industr...oyce-to-power-turkeys-indigenous-fighter-jet/

 

[LeGenD]

www.dailysabah.com/business/defense/turkey-to-continue-manufacturing-f-35-components-through-2022-pentagon-says/amp

There are parts only Turkey makes, but I wanted to know if there is a list of all the parts Turkey makes? There maybe some technologies Turkey has already mastered which may convince Pakistan to pick the TFX over the J-31/35 if Turkey makes it, such as the S Shaped Air duct. It’s a very hard piece of engineering (needed to ensure air flow at all angles of attack while not exposing the engine blades to staying radar stealthy) even the Russians couldn’t get right on their Su-57.

If the Turks can match or exceed the Chinese and Russian engines, then that will also help the PAF pick the TFX over the J-31/35

Following:

Source: Bloomberg

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There are other partners being capable of manufacturing these parts if necessary. USA can do it all alone.

 

[Figaro]

if they can even just copy the same capabilities and reliability of the GE F110

Here is the problem though. You can't copy an engine so to speak, much less the capabilities and reliability. You can build an engine off a pre-existing engine core, but to just copy the F110 would be impossible. With that being said, Turkey's defense infrastructure is there to handle gas turbine development and production. Unfortunately, it would have to spend a ton of money and probably decades to make a reliable turbofan. IMO, Turkey would be much better served just licensing the F110 rather than building one from scratch, which would take a significant amount of effort even if given substantial technology transfer. Aeroengine development is probably the most difficult field in all of aviation (and is one of the few fields were reverse engineering is all but impossible).

 

[Saithan]

Here is the problem though. You can't copy an engine so to speak, much less the capabilities and reliability. You can build an engine off a pre-existing engine core, but to just copy the F110 would be impossible. With that being said, Turkey's defense infrastructure is there to handle gas turbine development and production. Unfortunately, it would have to spend a ton of money and probably decades to make a reliable turbofan. IMO, Turkey would be much better served just licensing the F110 rather than building one from scratch, which would take a significant amount of effort even if given substantial technology transfer. Aeroengine development is probably the most difficult field in all of aviation (and is one of the few fields were reverse engineering is all but impossible).

Good point, but I doubt we'll be allowed to produce F110 even under license.

TEI has been working on the engine for a while and we've already developed and tested the core engine. https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...-team-of-experts-for-the-t625-helicopter-3546

We're expecting delivery of TS1400 Turbofan engine to be used on the ATAK and Gökbey 625 helicopter at the end of 2020. Also to be used on ATAK that's going to be exported to Pakistan and Philippines, since the US didn't give export permit for the LHTEC.

 

[Figaro]

Good point, but I doubt we'll be allowed to produce F110 even under license.

TEI has been working on the engine for a while and we've already developed and tested the core engine. https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...-team-of-experts-for-the-t625-helicopter-3546

We're expecting delivery of TS1400 Turbofan engine to be used on the ATAK and Gökbey 625 helicopter at the end of 2020. Also to be used on ATAK that's going to be exported to Pakistan and Philippines, since the US didn't give export permit for the LHTEC.

Turboshafts are a great start but they turbofans are considerably more challenging and capital/time heavy. Does the US not plan on exporting engines for the TFX program? I would consider that pretty surprising since engine tech as I mentioned before is one of the very few areas foolproof to reverse engineering. It would be easy money for Pratt and Whitney or GE. Or Turkey can also seek Russian engines, which are still very capable even if not to par with those of the US. IMO given the number of options available, there is no need for Turkey to plow massive resources into developing a turbofan which likely won't be very competitive by the time its ready (compared to the established aeroengine makers).

 

[Saithan]

Exactly, we need to start somewhere, so I hope the experience and success of the Turbofan can be utilized.

I believe we've bought 6 F110 to use in the development of the TFX.

I agree that the russians have made some good engines, especially back in the sovjet era. According to this video F35 engine design etc. is russian.

 

[-------]

Here is the problem though. You can't copy an engine so to speak, much less the capabilities and reliability. You can build an engine off a pre-existing engine core, but to just copy the F110 would be impossible. With that being said, Turkey's defense infrastructure is there to handle gas turbine development and production. Unfortunately, it would have to spend a ton of money and probably decades to make a reliable turbofan. IMO, Turkey would be much better served just licensing the F110 rather than building one from scratch, which would take a significant amount of effort even if given substantial technology transfer. Aeroengine development is probably the most difficult field in all of aviation (and is one of the few fields were reverse engineering is all but impossible).

I think you don't understand what Turkey is trying to achieve, it is not a matter of money nor time. It is of Vital interest that Turkey becomes as fully independent, so that Turkey's interests won't be interfered with.

The US/NATO has time and time again interfered with Turkey, for their own interests and cared not for the consequences to Turkey.

Be it a decade or more, investing in the engine will give further opportunities beyond TFX and this generation of Turks.

 

[TNT]

J 31 will always be an option for Pakistan. In case india goes for a stealth fighter, we can get j31s quickly. On the other hand, i believe Turkey will succeed in the turbofan arena and given their quality work, i would want Pakistan to get those. Maybe we can use Turkish engines in future for project Azm.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Turkey already started for its own Turbofan engine that it will be ready in 14 years

 

[BordoEnes]

Here is the problem though. You can't copy an engine so to speak, much less the capabilities and reliability. You can build an engine off a pre-existing engine core, but to just copy the F110 would be impossible. With that being said, Turkey's defense infrastructure is there to handle gas turbine development and production. Unfortunately, it would have to spend a ton of money and probably decades to make a reliable turbofan. IMO, Turkey would be much better served just licensing the F110 rather than building one from scratch, which would take a significant amount of effort even if given substantial technology transfer. Aeroengine development is probably the most difficult field in all of aviation (and is one of the few fields were reverse engineering is all but impossible).

It will be a monumental task indeed, but some might argue its an existential threat to not make any effort to become fully independent. Turkish products have on several occasions been chosen over US ones, and as a result they have been dragging out engine licenses to the point where the entire project comes into danger. Unfortunately the US is not a reliable partner for engines. It will be very hard thing to make, but that would only mean that the pay off will be that much greater.

 

[Deactivated]

Precisely because engines are the most important component and a core element, Turkey must, therefore, become independent in this area ... only in this way we can prevent sanctions and interference, and the know-how gained, would immensely accelerate all other projects in all sectors