xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
What makes a great nation?
- Thread starter Thomas
- Start date
Iggy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 8,300
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
grey boy 2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 6,484
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.
Who will be the last frog in the well?
By David Gosset
At the end of the 18th century, Lord Macartney, the ambassador of the British king George III, had been instructed to request in Beijing permission to send a British representative to the Chinese imperial court and to create the conditions for the expansion of trade between the Qing Dynasty and the British kingdom. The written answer of the Chinese emperor Qianlong, who reigned over the empire for 59 years (the People's Republic is 60 this year) is, in a sense, a gem:
Why then should foreign nations advance this utterly unreasonable request to be represented at my court? If you assert that your reverence for Our Celestial dynasty fills you with a desire to acquire our civilization, our ceremonies and code of laws differ so completely from your own that, even if your envoy were able to acquire the rudiments of our civilization, you could not possibly transplant our manners and customs to your alien soil ... I have but one aim in view, namely, to maintain a perfect governance and to fulfill the duties of the state: strange and costly objects do not interest me.
After centuries of complacent Sinocentrism behind the Great Wall
and secretive imperial politics within the Forbidden City, China is still often perceived as self-centered, its mandarins as being aloof and self-satisfied. Such a persistent representation misses some fundamental features of 21st century China: an unprecedented level of opening-up and transparency, a thirst for a better understanding of the foreign world and a desire not only to modernize a huge and ancient country but to become a source of modernity.
Consequently, the traditional Chinese separation between the outside (wai), or the foreign, and the inside (nei), or "us", has been considerably reduced. Some elements of the Chinese society might feel uneasy about this change, but China's opening up to the world does not equate to the loss of the Chinese identity; it is about the transformation of the idea of Chineseness and the revival of the Chinese civilization.
The common and vivid Chinese locution "jing di zhi wa", or the frog at the bottom of the well, is used to deride a mix of parochialism, narrow-mindedness and complacency. In an increasingly interconnected and interdependent global village, the expression does not apply to China. In a 2009 survey conducted by the Washington DC-based Pew Research Center, it appears that 93% of the Chinese respondents had a good opinion of international trade. The same institute estimates that 88% of the Chinese believe that their country's economic situation is good (17% for the US, 14% for France and 10% for Japan).
In the Chinese collective psyche, opening-up, progress and confidence reinforce each other. The conjunction of these characteristics partly explains why the visitor to Beijing, Shanghai or Chongqing is often astonished by the energy which circulates, indeed, in most Chinese megalopolis. In 2009, the Pew center inquired about the level of satisfaction in 25 nations and the study shows that 87% of the Chinese are satisfied with the way things are going in their country (36% for the US, 27% for France and 25% for Japan). Any reflection on China's political system, economy, business or diplomacy has to integrate this high level of confidence in sharp contrast with the general apprehension which dominates in the Western countries.
China's top leadership adopts a constructive global perspective. Last month, on the occasion of the 64th session of the United Nations General Assembly, Chinese President Hu Jintao made three highly significant addresses which indicate that Beijing not only looks at itself as an integrated member of the world community but as a co-architect of the 21st-century world order.
At the UN climate change summit, Hu's speech title was explicit: "Working together to meet the challenges of climate change." Besides, the main theme of Hu's address at the UN Security Council summit on nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament was the necessity to "work together to build a world with universal security". Moreover, at the UN General Assembly, Hu concluded his speech by a reference to the ideal of cosmopolitanism: "We are called upon by our times to unite as one and work together for mutual benefit and win-win progress like passengers in the same boat."
Even on Tiananmen Square on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China, a ceremony, above all, targeted at a domestic audience, Hu mentioned his vision of a "harmonious world", "world peace" and China's contributions to mankind.
The Chinese president is in phase with the Chinese society. As Zhao Qizheng, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), noted in a recent article, Chinese citizens have been transformed into "global citizens".
The effects of this evolution are considerable. The world community which hitherto was mainly a Western exclusive club has now 1.3 billion new active constituents open to the idea of a global order but who expect to be adequately represented in its regulatory or political bodies and equitably depicted in its mainstream media.
One can certainly find China's new global citizens in the following segments of the Chinese society which give also an idea of the magnitude of China's opening to the world.
Around 300 million Chinese people study or speak English. Events like the Beijing Summer Olympic Games last year or the Shanghai World Expo in 2010 stimulate the desire to learn the language of international exchanges. China's largest English school organization, New Oriental, is traded on the New York Stock Exchange. The unorthodox Li Yang, who is at the head of the language school Crazy English, is a celebrity in mainland China.
With more than 3 million copies, Reference News (Cankao xiaoxi) is the newspaper with the largest circulation in the People's Republic. Reference News' loyal readers appreciate the fact that its content is mainly made of translated articles published all around the world. More generally, from July 2008 to June 2009, translated books accounted for 20% of China's overall book market by title output and 30% of sales.
As of June 2009, with 338 million Internet users, China ranks first in the world for the number of netizens. By comparison, India has only 81 million internauts.
While the number of foreign students in China reached a record high of 223,499 in 2008, the number of Chinese studying abroad expanded to 200,000 in 2009. Since Deng Xiaoping's opening-up policy in 1978, almost 1.5 million Chinese chose to study abroad.
In 2007, about 37 million Chinese traveled overseas. The World Tourism Organization predicts that 100 million Chinese tourists will travel abroad every year by 2020.
If more than 600,000 Chinese engineers graduate every year from institutions of higher education, one should also be aware that around 30 million Chinese are now learning piano and 10 million violin. Tests to enter the top Chinese conservatories attract nearly 200,000 students a year. The Ukrainian virtuoso, Isaac Stern, portrayed in the 1980 documentary From Mao to Mozart anticipated China's massive opening-up to the beauties of Western classical music.
The late Spanish diplomat and composer, Delfin Colome, was right to argue in a thoughtful essay that "the future of classical music depends on Asia". And Robert Sirota, the distinguished American conductor and president of the Manhattan School of Music, is more specific: "I honestly think that in some real sense the future of classical music depends on developments in China in the next 20 years."
The Chinese people's intense interest for the world does not mean that they forget or reject their own tradition. On the contrary, for most of the Chinese intellectuals or the Chinese global citizens, the opening up to foreign cultures is an invitation to the reinterpretation of China's tradition. In fact, China's curiosity for the outside world is concomitant with a return to the Chinese tradition and a reflection on the idea of "Chineseness".
Can the West open itself to a Chinese renaissance as China opens itself to the world? If the West believes that it has nothing to learn from China, from its ancient wisdom, aesthetics, values, if the West, facing the overall success of the Chinese model, refuses to question its own assumptions about economic and political modernity, it simply takes the risk to end up as the last frog in the well.
David Gosset is director of the Euro-China Center for International and Business Relations at CEIBS, Shanghai, and founder of the Euro-China Forum. (Copyright 2009 David Gosset.)
(Oct 29, '09)
Who will be the last frog in the well?
By David Gosset
At the end of the 18th century, Lord Macartney, the ambassador of the British king George III, had been instructed to request in Beijing permission to send a British representative to the Chinese imperial court and to create the conditions for the expansion of trade between the Qing Dynasty and the British kingdom. The written answer of the Chinese emperor Qianlong, who reigned over the empire for 59 years (the People's Republic is 60 this year) is, in a sense, a gem:
Why then should foreign nations advance this utterly unreasonable request to be represented at my court? If you assert that your reverence for Our Celestial dynasty fills you with a desire to acquire our civilization, our ceremonies and code of laws differ so completely from your own that, even if your envoy were able to acquire the rudiments of our civilization, you could not possibly transplant our manners and customs to your alien soil ... I have but one aim in view, namely, to maintain a perfect governance and to fulfill the duties of the state: strange and costly objects do not interest me.
After centuries of complacent Sinocentrism behind the Great Wall
and secretive imperial politics within the Forbidden City, China is still often perceived as self-centered, its mandarins as being aloof and self-satisfied. Such a persistent representation misses some fundamental features of 21st century China: an unprecedented level of opening-up and transparency, a thirst for a better understanding of the foreign world and a desire not only to modernize a huge and ancient country but to become a source of modernity.
Consequently, the traditional Chinese separation between the outside (wai), or the foreign, and the inside (nei), or "us", has been considerably reduced. Some elements of the Chinese society might feel uneasy about this change, but China's opening up to the world does not equate to the loss of the Chinese identity; it is about the transformation of the idea of Chineseness and the revival of the Chinese civilization.
The common and vivid Chinese locution "jing di zhi wa", or the frog at the bottom of the well, is used to deride a mix of parochialism, narrow-mindedness and complacency. In an increasingly interconnected and interdependent global village, the expression does not apply to China. In a 2009 survey conducted by the Washington DC-based Pew Research Center, it appears that 93% of the Chinese respondents had a good opinion of international trade. The same institute estimates that 88% of the Chinese believe that their country's economic situation is good (17% for the US, 14% for France and 10% for Japan).
In the Chinese collective psyche, opening-up, progress and confidence reinforce each other. The conjunction of these characteristics partly explains why the visitor to Beijing, Shanghai or Chongqing is often astonished by the energy which circulates, indeed, in most Chinese megalopolis. In 2009, the Pew center inquired about the level of satisfaction in 25 nations and the study shows that 87% of the Chinese are satisfied with the way things are going in their country (36% for the US, 27% for France and 25% for Japan). Any reflection on China's political system, economy, business or diplomacy has to integrate this high level of confidence in sharp contrast with the general apprehension which dominates in the Western countries.
China's top leadership adopts a constructive global perspective. Last month, on the occasion of the 64th session of the United Nations General Assembly, Chinese President Hu Jintao made three highly significant addresses which indicate that Beijing not only looks at itself as an integrated member of the world community but as a co-architect of the 21st-century world order.
At the UN climate change summit, Hu's speech title was explicit: "Working together to meet the challenges of climate change." Besides, the main theme of Hu's address at the UN Security Council summit on nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament was the necessity to "work together to build a world with universal security". Moreover, at the UN General Assembly, Hu concluded his speech by a reference to the ideal of cosmopolitanism: "We are called upon by our times to unite as one and work together for mutual benefit and win-win progress like passengers in the same boat."
Even on Tiananmen Square on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China, a ceremony, above all, targeted at a domestic audience, Hu mentioned his vision of a "harmonious world", "world peace" and China's contributions to mankind.
The Chinese president is in phase with the Chinese society. As Zhao Qizheng, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), noted in a recent article, Chinese citizens have been transformed into "global citizens".
The effects of this evolution are considerable. The world community which hitherto was mainly a Western exclusive club has now 1.3 billion new active constituents open to the idea of a global order but who expect to be adequately represented in its regulatory or political bodies and equitably depicted in its mainstream media.
One can certainly find China's new global citizens in the following segments of the Chinese society which give also an idea of the magnitude of China's opening to the world.
Around 300 million Chinese people study or speak English. Events like the Beijing Summer Olympic Games last year or the Shanghai World Expo in 2010 stimulate the desire to learn the language of international exchanges. China's largest English school organization, New Oriental, is traded on the New York Stock Exchange. The unorthodox Li Yang, who is at the head of the language school Crazy English, is a celebrity in mainland China.
With more than 3 million copies, Reference News (Cankao xiaoxi) is the newspaper with the largest circulation in the People's Republic. Reference News' loyal readers appreciate the fact that its content is mainly made of translated articles published all around the world. More generally, from July 2008 to June 2009, translated books accounted for 20% of China's overall book market by title output and 30% of sales.
As of June 2009, with 338 million Internet users, China ranks first in the world for the number of netizens. By comparison, India has only 81 million internauts.
While the number of foreign students in China reached a record high of 223,499 in 2008, the number of Chinese studying abroad expanded to 200,000 in 2009. Since Deng Xiaoping's opening-up policy in 1978, almost 1.5 million Chinese chose to study abroad.
In 2007, about 37 million Chinese traveled overseas. The World Tourism Organization predicts that 100 million Chinese tourists will travel abroad every year by 2020.
If more than 600,000 Chinese engineers graduate every year from institutions of higher education, one should also be aware that around 30 million Chinese are now learning piano and 10 million violin. Tests to enter the top Chinese conservatories attract nearly 200,000 students a year. The Ukrainian virtuoso, Isaac Stern, portrayed in the 1980 documentary From Mao to Mozart anticipated China's massive opening-up to the beauties of Western classical music.
The late Spanish diplomat and composer, Delfin Colome, was right to argue in a thoughtful essay that "the future of classical music depends on Asia". And Robert Sirota, the distinguished American conductor and president of the Manhattan School of Music, is more specific: "I honestly think that in some real sense the future of classical music depends on developments in China in the next 20 years."
The Chinese people's intense interest for the world does not mean that they forget or reject their own tradition. On the contrary, for most of the Chinese intellectuals or the Chinese global citizens, the opening up to foreign cultures is an invitation to the reinterpretation of China's tradition. In fact, China's curiosity for the outside world is concomitant with a return to the Chinese tradition and a reflection on the idea of "Chineseness".
Can the West open itself to a Chinese renaissance as China opens itself to the world? If the West believes that it has nothing to learn from China, from its ancient wisdom, aesthetics, values, if the West, facing the overall success of the Chinese model, refuses to question its own assumptions about economic and political modernity, it simply takes the risk to end up as the last frog in the well.
David Gosset is director of the Euro-China Center for International and Business Relations at CEIBS, Shanghai, and founder of the Euro-China Forum. (Copyright 2009 David Gosset.)
(Oct 29, '09)
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
yea right..
Australia takes care of its poor, unemployed, widows, and orphans. Australia is a nation that is run through democracy, and that defends itself from both, the cultural as well as military invasions; a nation that is tolerant yet disciplined and believes in high moral and humanitarian values.
So you sir are wrong.
brahmastra
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,914
- Reaction score
- -1
australia is the answer. not only fits in the criteria but in addition by accepting refugees from the civil war country and fitting with the local community is not everyone's cup of tea.
Iggy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 8,300
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
the bolded statement is what wrong my friend
85 percent of Australians say racism a problem: survey - Taiwan News Online
Revenge attacks bring second night of race violence to Sydney | World news | The Guardian
'We will fight them on the beaches' Attack by Muslims on lifeguards sparks race riots with mob vowing to "defend our Aussie way of life": Australian journalists says that Muslim leaders are to acknowledge that their treatment of - Militant Islam Moni
Hope you know your countrys history and where Britain send their worst criminals and also read about White Australians cruelty to the natives ..
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Your another person who fails to actually understand what happened in those incidents. anyway they have nothing to do with the sentence in bold. Do you even understand the sentence?
It's stupid that you think a few attacks by a few people resemble the whole of Australia.
Australia is a tolerant country, Australia is a multiculture country with many different cultures.
Australia believes in high moral and humanitarian values, hence why we give 5 billion dollars a year in aid and development money to 20 different countries around the world including your country and also Palestine.
Half the comments in your post have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Why would you bring up that the uk sent prisoners here? What's that got to do with anything? Are you trying to say that All Australians are criminals? For your information there is under a 500,00 Australians who are decendants of convicts, the rest came here during the gold rush, but of course you wouldn't know this since your an armchair critic who thinks you know everything. "worst criminals" BAHAHA see you completely know nothing, most of the convicts that were sent here for arrested for stealing a loaf of bread, worst criminals my ***. IF you don't know everything about something, DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT.
And look again you have made a comment about something you have totally NO knowledge of. "White Australians cruelty to the natives" You are so racist, why would you even metion "white" whats that got to do with anything? There is no creulty to any native people in Australia infact since 1970, the government has given the natives 20 billion dollars for housing, food, education and also alot of land, but unforutnatly they are troubled by abuse of alcohol, drugs and child abuse.
I still cannot get over the fact that you have the nerve to tell me i'm wrong, when IM an Australian and live in Australia and you live in India. Get over yourself.
Iggy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 8,300
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
lolz man ..agree with the fact that crime of some people cannot be framed on an entire country ..But you didnt understand the context of what i am saying..
For me Australia is no were near the idea of a perfect country..A country where a government forcefully detach children from the native people and teach them the modern manners is not my idea of ideal country..
Rest of your arguments are just pathetic rants and deserve no reply...
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
A government in the 1920's is different to a government in the 21st century, haha i bet you thought that the current government was doing all that crap. Back when all of that stuffed happened Australia was still under full brittish control, we hardly had an indepedent government.
The reason you won't reply to anything else is because you know what im saying is true and correct. I think i know better then you what goes on in my country, you are from India, you get all your crap from the racist India ill-informed media.
Australia is a perfect country and is only second to Norway and New zealand, they are the most perfect countries.
Iggy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 8,300
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
I didnt said that it was done by the current government ..Ok since you want me to answer that let me tell answer you
About 85% of your country men say that racism is a biggest issue I quote that not from my racist media of my country..its a survey done in your country and still you are saying there is no racist attacks..When i pointed out what happened in Cronulla riots the following was your reply
The middle eastern community brought that all upon them selfs. They ran around that town like they owned the joint, bashing people, raping women. The bashing of life guards on the beach was the final straw. EVERYONE had enough and thats when things turned ugly. After the riot, the middle eastern community pulled there heads in because they understood that no one was going to take there ****.
Racism is a MAJOR problem in Australia. I am not denying there is racist Australians, but the majority of the racists are immigrants to the country. There are daily race based attacked on white people from asian and middle eastern people in Australia. Hell, there is even a department called the "Middle eastern organized crime squad"
Just putting the problems in the middle eastern community where as devalpro pointed out that in that demonstration racist people take advantage of the situation for beating up Asians ..Still you want to argue that Australia is an ideal country??
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
You fail at knowing about the poll and you at at lying. 85% of my country does not think racism is a problem. The people who conducted the poll did not ask all 21 million people in Australia, hey the poll could of been conducted with 100 people. 85% of 100 people lol.
I find it very funny you ignore totally everything else i proved you wrong on and continue writing about these so called "racist" attacks that have been proved to be not racist attacks, except for 1 which was not commited by an australian citizen.
How is one instance of racism a reflection of the whole country? Some Indians have hatred towards Pakistanis should i say ALL Indians hate Pakistanis? ALL indians have hatred towards them? ALL indians are racist? No. That would be stupid. India has more racism in it then Australia that's for sure.
You are the most stupid person in the world if you honestly think the actions of a couple of people reflect the whole country. You are ignorant and have no idea what you talk about, yet you continue to act like you know what you are talking about and it's very very funny.
How about going back on topic and talking about what we were originally talking about. We were NOT talking about a couple of assaults lol.
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
You fail at knowing about the poll and you at at lying. 85% of my country does not think racism is a problem. The people who conducted the poll did not ask all 21 million people in Australia, hey the poll could of been conducted with 100 people. 85% of 100 people lol.
I find it very funny you ignore totally everything else i proved you wrong on and continue writing about these so called "racist" attacks that have been proved to be not racist attacks, except for 1 which was not commited by an australian citizen.
How is one instance of racism a reflection of the whole country? Some Indians have hatred towards Pakistanis should i say ALL Indians hate Pakistanis? ALL indians have hatred towards them? ALL indians are racist? No. That would be stupid. India has more racism in it then Australia that's for sure.
You are the most stupid person in the world if you honestly think the actions of a couple of people reflect the whole country. You are ignorant and have no idea what you talk about, yet you continue to act like you know what you are talking about and it's very very funny.
How about going back on topic and talking about what we were originally talking about. We were NOT talking about a couple of assaults lol.
Australia is a nation that is tolerant yet disciplined and believes in high moral and humanitarian values.
Australia is a great nation, that provides alot of aid to alot of countries. It accepts many refugees at a rate of 100.000 thousand a year. It's one of the safest countries in the world with one of the lowest crime rates.
It is ranked second on the HDI index with mesaures standard of living, education and other things.
6 of it's cities are rated in the top 15 cities of the world.
Australia is one of the best economies in the world, it is the only developed country in the world not to go into recession.
Australia is the only country in the world that has had it's economy grow for the past 20 years straight.
Iggy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 8,300
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
Man are you reading anything i wrote in my previous posts???Dont make a fool out of yourself ..go and read post #23 ..You are pathetically trying to bail out your country from the racist attacks by blaiming it on other people than your country men..You never proved us that those attack against Indians and those attack in Cronulla were not racist attack..You didnt even give suitable reply to the Devalapros post in that thread..anyway its hard for guys like you to understand ..You are advicing for teaching muslim kids to teach manners and same times saying that your country is perfect..any way leave it.Its not worth arguing with you ..
As i said these attacks and also people like you in a country who advice to teach manners to muslim kids does not make a country ideal for all people
xdrive
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,339
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
I have already proved over and over again, that they were not racist attacks. There are countless news articals that say that these attacks were not race based. You fail at reading. Like i said, this has nothing to do with the topic we are talking about, the reason you are talking about this is because i proved you wrong on your other points so you quickly run to this to make yourself not look like a complete dickhead which you are.
If someone gets assaulted in India shall i say ALL indians are racist and India is a very dangerous place? no. It's obvious you have been taking in all the crap the racist wrong indian media has been saying. I find it amazing you continue to speak like Australia is a dangerous place just because of a couple of attacks. But like i said, you have gone way off topic. What we are talking about IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD. Go on topic or stop posting.
Being wealthy or being technological/military advance does not make a nation great. A great nation is one which have the courage to say Wrong to what is wrong and Right to what is right. The great nation should have self respect and are ready to fight for what they believe in. They can stand against any intruder or invader and still preserve their identity for hundreds or thousands of years.
Similar threads
