What is happening in Yemen these days..update.

[aryobarzan]

US-led forces toppled Afghan Taliban in a span of just 2 months in 2001 (in the phase of 'major combat operations').

The war in Yemen have entered 7th year and KSA have not managed to overthrow Houthi yet.

Afghanistan = Landlocked; very large and challenging terrain. Afghan Taliban have many anchors and hideouts in the region as well.

No country can have absolute control Afghanistan in view of its geography and surroundings in a war. Iran was also reluctant to fight a war with Afghan Taliban in the 1990s.

Yemen = Open to Arabian Sea. Houthi can be boxed in and eliminated. KSA does not have much of a navy however.

There is no comparison. Houthi are not really tested in true sense. KSA is still in learning phase.

Yemen geographic layout is also mountainous..the sea access works both ways..they can be supplied as they have been with vital components ...unlike Talibs they have access to factories and infrastucture of the territory they own..so if you ask me they have it easier than the Taleb..so I do not think they need 20 years to finish the war...MBS has the funds to go on but how long Saudi elite will allow him to drag a losing war is anyone's guess..

 

[Big Tank]

Zaydi Sunnis?

Zaydis of Yemen are Shia by political terms but they're Sunnis by Fiqhi terms as they're Hanafi and follow Abu Hanifa on Fiqh.

 

[Foinikas]

Zaydis of Yemen are Shia by political terms but they're Sunnis by Fiqhi terms as they're Hanafi and follow Abu Hanifa on Fiqh.

But how can they be Shias if they follow the Sunni way? Sorry I'm not Muslim

 

[LeGenD]

Yemen geographic layout is also mountainous..the sea access works both ways..they can be supplied as they have been with vital components ...unlike Talibs they have access to factories and infrastucture of the territory they own..so if you ask me they have it easier than the Taleb..so I do not think they need 20 years to finish the war...MBS has the funds to go on but how long Saudi elite will allow him to drag a losing war is anyone's guess..

Dear, you are correct about Yemeni geographical features. Comparison with Afghanistan is misplaced nevertheless.

Afghan Taliban cannot be surrounded and cut off in Afghanistan; they can melt away and escape attention rather easily. They are nomadic and do not rely upon expensive infrastructure to conduct warfare.

Houthi can be surrounded and cut off in Yemen. KSA is not able to do this because it does not have a capable navy and expeditionary forces like US marines. KSA cannot replicate Normandy Landings in Yemen to be precise.

Saudi troops are also mediocre in firefights on average. They are unable to use tanks and helicopters effectively.

Yemen have certainly taught some lessons to KSA in the war (experience helps sharpen skills and develop tactics). However, this a clash of mediocrity in the region. This is why you see no results.

Give this war to USA and they will take control of entire Yemen in a month tops. Just look at what happened in the Persian Gulf War in 1991; a war in which US-led forces adopted encircling strategy to cut off and overwhelm Iraqi armed forces in Kuwait.

 

[Big Tank]

But how can they be Shias if they follow the Sunni way? Sorry I'm not Muslim

Okay so there are many types of Shias. Shias in Arabic means *group*. So the word you see today as Shias is Shian e Ali. (group of Ali ibn Abi Talib). It started when there became two groups after Prophet's death. The group who refused to accept caliphate was called Shian e Ali. The term was later used for referring to Pro Alid people or armies or groups throughout the history.

So now these Zaydi Shias aren't the regular twelver Shias (98 percent of the Shias are twelvers). Shias believe in 12 Imams (Leaders) from the family tree of Prophet's daughter Fatima.

However, Zaydis are called Fiver Shias. Because when the 4th Imam's son received the title of next Imam. There was a group of followers loyal to his brother named Zayd. Zayd was militarily active and ran covert activities against Ummayad rulers to avenge the massacre of Imam Hussain and his followers in Karbala. While the designated Imam whom majority of Shias followed. His name was Baqar. Baqar did not believe in Military approach of his brother as he was well aware of the deceiving nature of the people. Zayd finally launched a rebellion and successfully liberated the city of Kufa till some of the people abandoned him for greed and gold offered by Ummayads. Zayd was eventually captured, mutilated and burnt.

Now, the people who followed Zayd began calling themselves Zaydis and didn't believe in the legitimate Imam Baqir. Although Zayd never called himself an Imam. Zaydis call him the 5th Imam so they're called Fiver Shias.

Now, every Muslim follows a religious Jurisprudence. There are 5 jurisprudence in Islam.

Jaffari (by Imam Jaffar 6th Shia Imam

Hanafi (by Abu Hanifa, a student of Jaffar who later founded Hanafi jurisprudence)

Maliki (by Malik ibn Anas)

Shafii (by Muhammad idris, a pupil of Malik)

Hanbali (by Iraqi scholar Ahmad ibn Hanbal)

So while the twelver Shias follow Jaffari Jurisprudence. Zaydi Shias follow Hanafi Jurisprudence found by a Sunni scholar Abu Hanifa.

Therefore, Zaydis are Shia by their political ideology but Sunnis by their religious Jurisprudence. It was also because Abu Hanifa was very supportive to Zaydis and made generous donations to their movements.

Hope it helps. Feel free to ask.

 

[khansaheeb]

Qouting southfront lmao. According to that website marib has fallen million times.. Houtis have lost 10000 fighters in just few months and now have issues recruiting. They also lost territories verified news.

Houtis have lost territories in the south.. They can never defeat hadis army and the southern separatists..

The more it drags out they will give territories the otherside is not in a hurry and counting on eventually houthi fatigue by just keep the war going on them until they run completely dry out of resources and run out of ammos eventually

Isn't that what the Zions said in Afghanistan?

 

[Foinikas]

Okay so there are many types of Shias. Shias in Arabic means *group*. So the word you see today as Shias is Shian e Ali. (group of Ali ibn Abi Talib). It started when there became two groups after Prophet's death. The group who refused to accept caliphate was called Shian e Ali. The term was later used for referring to Pro Alid people or armies or groups throughout the history.

So now these Zaydi Shias aren't the regular twelver Shias (98 percent of the Shias are twelvers). Shias believe in 12 Imams (Leaders) from the family tree of Prophet's daughter Fatima.

However, Zaydis are called Fiver Shias. Because when the 4th Imam's son received the title of next Imam. There was a group of followers loyal to his brother named Zayd. Zayd was militarily active and ran covert activities against Ummayad rulers to avenge the massacre of Imam Hussain and his followers in Karbala. While the designated Imam whom majority of Shias followed. His name was Baqar. Baqar did not believe in Military approach of his brother as he was well aware of the deceiving nature of the people. Zayd finally launched a rebellion and successfully liberated the city of Kufa till some of the people abandoned him for greed and gold offered by Ummayads. Zayd was eventually captured, mutilated and burnt.

Now, the people who followed Zayd began calling themselves Zaydis and didn't believe in the legitimate Imam Baqir. Although Zayd never called himself an Imam. Zaydis call him the 5th Imam so they're called Fiver Shias.

Now, every Muslim follows a religious Jurisprudence. There are 5 jurisprudence in Islam.

Jaffari (by Imam Jaffar 6th Shia Imam

Hanafi (by Abu Hanifa, a student of Jaffar who later founded Hanafi jurisprudence)

Maliki (by Malik ibn Anas)

Shafii (by Muhammad idris, a pupil of Malik)

Hanbali (by Iraqi scholar Ahmad ibn Hanbal)

So while the twelver Shias follow Jaffari Jurisprudence. Zaydi Shias follow Hanafi Jurisprudence found by a Sunni scholar Abu Hanifa.

Therefore, Zaydis are Shia by their political ideology but Sunnis by their religious Jurisprudence. It was also because Abu Hanifa was very supportive to Zaydis and made generous donations to their movements.

Hope it helps. Feel free to ask.

Thank you that was very good information. I knew some of the stuff but you explained the Zaydi history very well. So Zayd was betrayed,kind of like Hussayn and Ali.

 

[Titanium100]

Isn't that what the Zions said in Afghanistan?

Zion? I am sure they never said that. But this ain't Afghanistan because this is a full local on local. Nothing on mother earth can undo hadi and the southern separatists movement that is just a conventional reality

 

[Iñigo]

"full local on local"

(!)

And Saudi Barbaria's F-15s refueling in flight in USAF tankers are also local

Yes

local

---

"An U.S. Air Force KC-135 Stratotanker flew the first mission Tuesday night, providing fuel for a Saudi-owned F-15 Eagle, Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, said Wednesday"

local

---

and America is a Democracy

"Just 16 days after a bipartisan group of US senators approved a resolution to end military support for Saudi Arabia’s involvement in the war in Yemen, the administration is doing exactly the opposite"

 

[Big Tank]

Thank you that was very good information. I knew some of the stuff but you explained the Zaydi history very well. So Zayd was betrayed,kind of like Hussayn and Ali.

You're welcome. Always there to share.

Yes, Zayd was also deceived. The nature of 2nd General Muslim Arabs was different. Loyalties were no longer based on lineage or cause. Especially the people of Kufa were very difficult to handle and were authoritative in nature. A Kufan official could be bought by Gold, or a position in the governance.

Not only Kufans but everyone. There were many other movements which failed due to the same nature of people. Ali was betrayed many times since he did not believe in rewarding people except for what they deserved as compared to Ummayads who'd fill people with gold for their loyalty.

Ali's son Hassan, the brother of Hussain faced the same when he was launching an offensive against Muawiyah but had to back off when he appointed Abu Hamza al Kindi as his vanguard commander who defected to Ummayads for gold.

Later he appointed Rashid as the commander who defected as well. Rashid was earlier a loyalist and Hassan's senior intelligence operative in Damascus working as the chief of Damascus Prison Security.

In the end he sent Ubaydullah ibn Abbas. His very own cousin and a Hashmite from the same clan. Ubaydullah was the Army Chief of Hassan's Army and Hassan sent him to moralize the troops who were low on morale after defections of their commanders. Ubaydullah too defected, leading to a chaos at the garrison. Therefore Hassan decided to fall back with a heavy heart, realizing that he'd be betrayed anyways. Later he was poisoned by his wife as she was promised a hefty reward.

Hassan is always confused and is told of having polite attitude towards Ummayads. Contrary to that, he was more offensive to them just like Ali and Hussain. However, faced critical defections.

 

[adelphi]

Therefore, Zaydis are Shia by their political ideology but Sunnis by their religious Jurisprudence. It was also because Abu Hanifa was very supportive to Zaydis and made generous donations to their movements.

Thanks for your informative post, I learnt few things unknown to me previously.
The point I want to raise is that Shia/Sunni divide was never religious to begin with. The right to caliphate was a political issue rather than a religious issue. Correct me if I'm wrong but I am not sure if right to caliphate through blood line was ever supported by our Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Also religion Islam was complete when one of the last verse was revealed "
"Al-Yawma Akmaltu Lakum Deenakum Waatmamtu Alaykum Niaamati Waradeetu
Lakumu Al-Islama Deenan"
Translation:
"This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion Al-Islam"

So what difference it makes if one follows 5 imams or none. As evident the choice between Zayd & imam Baqir was political nothing to do with religion. In my opinion it's a political divide which over the time took religious shelter
for survival, a madness spanning over centuries with no end insight. A sad reality of Islamic world.

 

[Big Tank]

Thanks for your informative post, I learnt few things unknown to me previously.
The point I want to raise is that Shia/Sunni divide was never religious to begin with. The right to caliphate was a political issue rather than a religious issue. Correct me if I'm wrong but I am not sure if right to caliphate through blood line was ever supported by our Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Also religion Islam was complete when one of the last verse was revealed "
"Al-Yawma Akmaltu Lakum Deenakum Waatmamtu Alaykum Niaamati Waradeetu
Lakumu Al-Islama Deenan"
Translation:
"This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion Al-Islam"

So what difference it makes if one follows 5 imams or none. As evident the choice between Zayd & imam Baqir was political nothing to do with religion. In my opinion it's a political divide which over the time took religious shelter
for survival, a madness spanning over centuries with no end insight. A sad reality of Islamic world.

1: Right to caliphate through bloodline was ever supported by our Prophet:

He didn't restrict that either. There are zero Hadiths of him restricting that as compared to Hadiths where he announced to whoever am a leader, Ali is his leader. Happened in front of more than one lac Sahaba. According to complete Hadith, Hz Umar came to Ali congratulated him. Ahl e Sunnah brothers say that Maula means a friend in this Hadith. I don't think Prophet really had to just announce that Ali is a friend to whoever I am a friend. And Hz Umar wouldn't come and congratulate to that. Also, Ali was the closest and most well learnt from Prophet in terms of Jihad and Religion. As Dr Israr once said, if Ali was made the first Khalifa. Khilafat wouldn't have ended. Also, Ali made Hassan, his son a Khalifa. So he wouldn't have done that if Prophet didn't allow that. However, it's a long debate.
Edit: A religion that even teaches you how to do Ghusl (clean yourself), Eat, Talk and Sit will leave people without a leader after Prophet eventually causing a never ending rift in Muslims? Think of it.

2: Islam as a complete religion and Jurisprudence.

The concept of Jurisprudence is to form the religious legislations and set a complete code. Jurists did not invent a Religion of their own but just made an index for the laws.

 

[Foinikas]

You're welcome. Always there to share.

Yes, Zayd was also deceived. The nature of 2nd General Muslim Arabs was different. Loyalties were no longer based on lineage or cause. Especially the people of Kufa were very difficult to handle and were authoritative in nature. A Kufan official could be bought by Gold, or a position in the governance.

Not only Kufans but everyone. There were many other movements which failed due to the same nature of people. Ali was betrayed many times since he did not believe in rewarding people except for what they deserved as compared to Ummayads who'd fill people with gold for their loyalty.

Ali's son Hassan, the brother of Hussain faced the same when he was launching an offensive against Muawiyah but had to back off when he appointed Abu Hamza al Kindi as his vanguard commander who defected to Ummayads for gold.

Later he appointed Rashid as the commander who defected as well. Rashid was earlier a loyalist and Hassan's senior intelligence operative in Damascus working as the chief of Damascus Prison Security.

In the end he sent Ubaydullah ibn Abbas. His very own cousin and a Hashmite from the same clan. Ubaydullah was the Army Chief of Hassan's Army and Hassan sent him to moralize the troops who were low on morale after defections of their commanders. Ubaydullah too defected, leading to a chaos at the garrison. Therefore Hassan decided to fall back with a heavy heart, realizing that he'd be betrayed anyways. Later he was poisoned by his wife as she was promised a hefty reward.

Hassan is always confused and is told of having polite attitude towards Ummayads. Contrary to that, he was more offensive to them just like Ali and Hussain. However, faced critical defections.

So are the Houthis and the Iranian Shia something like the Roman Catholics and Greek Catholics (Greek Catholics are mainly in Ukraine and Lebanon if I'm not mistaken) or like the Evangelicals and Baptists? I mean how close are they religiously? You explained how close they are,but I mean do they consider each other very close? Relatively close? Shia brothers? I know they do get the biggest support from Iran probably,Shia and all...but I didn't know they were like Sunnis until you mentioned it.

 

[adelphi]

1: Right to caliphate through bloodline was ever supported by our Prophet:

He didn't restrict that either. There are zero Hadiths of him restricting that as compared to Hadiths where he announced to whoever am a leader, Ali is his leader. Happened in front of more than one lac Sahaba. According to complete Hadith, Hz Umar came to Ali congratulated him. Ahl e Sunnah brothers say that Maula means a friend in this Hadith. I don't think Prophet really had to just announce that Ali is a friend to whoever I am a friend. And Hz Umar wouldn't come and congratulate to that. Also, Ali was the closest and most well learnt from Prophet in terms of Jihad and Religion. As Dr Israr once said, if Ali was made the first Khalifa. Khilafat wouldn't have ended. Also, Ali made Hassan, his son a Khalifa. So he wouldn't have done that if Prophet didn't allow that. However, it's a long debate.
Edit: A religion that even teaches you how to do Ghusl (clean yourself), Eat, Talk and Sit will leave people without a leader after Prophet eventually causing a never ending rift in Muslims? Think of it.

2: Islam as a complete religion and Jurisprudence.

The concept of Jurisprudence is to form the religious legislations and set a complete code. Jurists did not invent a Religion of their own but just made an index for the laws.

I'm fine with your explanation, however just for the sake of healthy debate let's assume that our Prophet did meant Hz Ali Razi Allah Tala Anhu to be next calip in his Hadiths as you mentioned. How does that mean that right to caliphate through blood line is approved as only Hz Ali is nominated unless there are other references.
Also is that such a big issue that it requires a new sect to be created causing a divide spanning centuries.
Honestly if it had been allowed we know how this ends. Down the line the descendants of Hz Ali would have fought between themselves. Eventually every rule comes to an end.
If I take my religious lens off it looks like a ongoing power struggle that we see through out the history. Does it worth to have a sect based on it and fight over it after 15 centuries? Absolutely not.

 

[The SC]

Dear, you are correct about Yemeni geographical features. Comparison with Afghanistan is misplaced nevertheless.

Afghan Taliban cannot be surrounded and cut off in Afghanistan; they can melt away and escape attention rather easily. They are nomadic and do not rely upon expensive infrastructure to conduct warfare.

Houthi can be surrounded and cut off in Yemen. KSA is not able to do this because it does not have a capable navy and expeditionary forces like US marines. KSA cannot replicate Normandy Landings in Yemen to be precise.

Saudi troops are also mediocre in firefights on average. They are unable to use tanks and helicopters effectively.

Yemen have certainly taught some lessons to KSA in the war (experience helps sharpen skills and develop tactics). However, this a clash of mediocrity in the region. This is why you see no results.

Give this war to USA and they will take control of entire Yemen in a month tops. Just look at what happened in the Persian Gulf War in 1991; a war in which US-led forces adopted encircling strategy to cut off and overwhelm Iraqi armed forces in Kuwait.

Desert storm happened in a flat desert..

BTW the US SF fought in Yemen and lost most of their men. much before KSA intervened..

The war is not over, but now there is a period of "Restoring Hope" operation, which prevails in a political nature over a military one ..

The "Decisive Storm" operation (a one month operation) was very successful, resulting in the liberation of key areas in Yemen..