https://abdullahalandalusi.com/2015...eated-non-muslims-as-the-west-treats-muslims/
Sometimes, the best way for people to understand whether they are treating their minorities fairly, is to ask, ‘what if they were the minority?’, would they accept the same treatment they dish out to others? On the eve of extreme repressive laws that the UK government have pledged to enact (alongside the Australian government), this question becomes all the more pertinent. So lets see what Secular Liberals would say if the roles were reversed?
Now the Muslim world is generally secular, and Secular Liberals certainly enjoy more freedom to preach their expansionist ideology, than Muslims who call to holistic Islam can. Most Muslim countries currently, actually affirm the freedom for people to hold different religions to Islam, and practice those religions – even in ‘Islamic Republics’ like Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
However, what if the entire Muslim world did the following?:
1) The mainstream Media outlets of the Muslim world begin regularly and continually focusing on stories of criminals amongst the society who happen to be Christians or Secular Liberals, and mention their religion/ideology alongside the details of the crime they committed (even if there is no relation). The Media is then specially focused to stories of which the religion of the Christian or Secular Liberal is loosely connected, like this.
The social prejudice this creates, leads to Christians and Secular Liberals finding it hard to get jobs, leading more into crime, and thus more material for the Muslim mainstream media outlets to publicise.
2) The media regularly invites pundits, and commentators, specifically ex-Christians and ex-Liberals, who spout stories of how ‘christians regularly beat, ostracise or even kill’ their children for converting to Islam. The pundits mention how Liberalism is an intolerant, totalitarian ideology, which was historically spread by the bullet and bayonet, and resulted in millions dying, and therefore all the ADVOCATES of Secular Liberalism are EXTREMISTS and potentially a threat to community cohesion of Muslim society, since they preach an intolerant ideology whose leading thinkers and philosophers (the ‘Ullama al Liberaliyyah’) JUSTIFY killing innocent civilians in the name of the Secular Liberal ideology.
3) The Media holds debates, inviting only Secular Liberals who claim they have no problem with the status-quo of their society, or Islam and merely want to keep themselves to themselves, and live according to Liberalism merely as a personal life choice, and not preach Political Liberalism, or inviting Unitarian Christians (who don’t believe in the Trinity), and portray both of these as the REAL ‘Secular Liberals’ and ‘Christians’, or MODERATES [The Quran does say to Christians ‘do not go to extremes in your religion’]. Then the Media invite onto the same debate, the most ignorant, rambunctious, irrational and fanatical speakers who are called on to defend Trinitarian Christianity and the “political form” of Secular Liberalism, and holding a debate showing only these two points of view, as ‘moderation’ vs extremists, and giving Secular Liberals and Christians watching the program the impression that the only choices are between these two.
4) The Media show stories around the world of Liberal terrorism and Christian Terrorism, from the KKK to the Lord’s Resistance Army of central africa. Secular Liberalism terrorism of Liberal states who bomb countries around the world, invade, torture and assassinate political dissidents (with drones) [which ironically all are true]. However, the media show the arson committed by Secular protesters in Egypt, Tunisia as terrorism, and the deadly bombs against Iranian Nuclear Scientists as ‘proof that Secular Liberalism is a retrograde force, that is anti-science’.
5) Some Muslim countries then enact laws that churches can’t be built with steeples (mirroring the Swiss ban on Minarets upheld by European Court of Human ‘Rights‘), or if they are allowed in other Muslim countries, Christians find it hard to get approval for planning permission from the local council because the local community ‘feel uncomfortable’ with churches being in the area. Or the excuse of ‘parking concerns’ and ‘disruption to traffic’ are citing for the reason churches couldn’t be built.
6) Churches and the offices of Secular Liberal advocacy groups are regularly burnt down, vandalised, defaced or broken into continually by angry vigilante members of the public, incited by the constant publication of anti-Christian and anti-Liberal Media news stories. If any one complains about the media’s slanted bias, they are used as ‘more examples of how Christianity and Liberalism wish to silence other people’s rights to express their opinions’. The politicians of the Muslim governments decry the attacks on Churches and Liberal offices, but do nothing more beyond condemnations.
7) Muslim governments pass laws banning Churches or Secular Liberal advocacy groups from being funded by any foreign states or agencies [e.g. like the recent Austrian law]
8) Muslim governments pass laws that all citizens MUST learn Arabic/Urdu/Turkish/Malay. No one can come to settle in the Muslim country without learning to speak those languages (mirroring the rules enforcing learning of the official language of european states being a requirement of all immigrants).
9) Muslim governments pass laws prohibiting the display of any religious symbols other than Islamic ones in schools. Any child displaying a symbol will be sent home. Laws also state that Secular Liberals must wear full body and head covering if they are to attend schools (e.g. mirroring France’s laws)
10) Muslim governments pass laws that state that any woman dressed in Western clothing in public, is to be fined. This includes tourists, especially American, English and other european ones, who especially show disregard to native clothing in the countries they visit [which is true]. (e.g. mirroring France and many European state’s laws banning Niqab in public).
11) Muslim governments pass laws that ban the slaughter of pigs for food, declaring such food ‘unfit for human consumption’ (e.g. mirroring the recent ban by some european countries on halal/kosher slaughter).
12) Muslim governments pass laws stating that Christians are forbidden to pray in public (e.g. mirroring France’s law against public prayer – mainly against Muslims)
13) Muslim governments respond to the scant acts of terrorism, or crime by the Christian minorities and militant Secular groups (like Tamarod), by getting Security agencies to spy on, harrass and infiltrate their their entire communities. Stopping Christians and Liberals at airports, subjecting them to searches, delays, hours of interrogation and blocking the passports of some suspected of working with foreign Liberal or Christian governments, or in participating in potential terror acts (real or imagined). The restrictions are justified by citing that the potential for even one act of terror is reason enough to take all measures possible (mirroring USA, UK, Australian, French etc security agencies). These measures cause grievances amongst Christians and Liberals and lead to more acts of terrorism, which then are used to justify more security measures.
14) Muslim governments kidnap suspect Christians and Liberals across the world, and subject them to torture, ‘just in case’ they yield useful information on potential crimes and terror attacks against the Muslim governments.
15) Muslim governments implement ‘extremism disruption orders’ on Trinitarian Christian preachers, or Secular Liberal ‘Human Rights Activists’, who they accuse of being ‘extremists’, preaching ideologies of hate and intolerance to Islam. These orders prohibit the preachers from speaking in public, or posting anything online without prior approval from the police force. (mirroring UK’s Theresa May’s recent proposal).
16) Muslim governments implement laws that close down any Church of Liberal advocacy office, that hosts or fails to prevent, any Trinitarian Christian preacher or Secular Liberal advocate deemed ‘extremist’. (mirroring UK’s Theresa May’s recent proposal).
17) Muslim governments implements laws stating that anyone who works in the public sector, whether doctor, teacher, nurse or care worker, must report anyone, including children, to the government who is suspected of being a Trinitarian Christian or Advocate for political Liberalism (including children). These identified individuals will be put on a special ‘Channel Program’, that will ‘de-radicalise’ the child or adult from being Trinitarian, or believing that Liberalism should be applied politically. (Mirroring the new CTS law in the UK).
18) Muslim government politicians give speeches that demand that Christians and Liberals ‘follow the values of the country they are in’, and that ‘these values are not a choice’ (mirroring UK Prime Minister’s David Cameron’s August Speech).
19) Muslim government funds groups and advocacy groups which promote Unitarian Christianity and the ‘moderate’ Christian position, and also Secular Liberal groups that advocate that Secular Liberalism is not a political ideology, and merely a personal lifestyle choice to be lived only at home, or in private buildings devoted its practices – any Liberal who calls for the political implementation of Liberalism, is called a ‘Liberalist’, and portrayed as following a ‘warped interpretation of Liberalism’. Members from these government funded groups are given pride of place on the media, and portrayed as true representative of their religions and ideologies.
Secular liberalism would be portrayed as only relevant for a unique European context 300 years ago and that needs to go through a “reformation”, and become a private belief.
So what if the Muslim world implemented all these laws, policies and strategies? Would anyone say the muslim world is intolerant if these 19 points above were the actual policies and treatment of minorities of the Muslim world? Even if the Muslim governments declared that they ‘support the freedom of Christians and Liberals to live and practice their faith’ but, to quote one UK conservative MP their ‘country is not a free for all’ for those they CONSIDERED ‘extremists’. Of course they would!
Now if any Secular Liberals reading this, would disagree with the Muslim world implementing any of these rules, or doing nothing to prevent the social problems exacerbated by an out-of-control media, you can start your ‘human rights’ work AT HOME, in Europe, North America, Australia and so on against your own governments — before you going around the world preaching something your own civilisation doesn’t practice.
However, if you think the West is justified to do any of these, or in allowing the Media to exacerbate social problems as it does, then do nothing, and no doubt the Muslim world will understand loud and clear from the West’s example, that countries doing these things to their minorities, political dissidents and ‘undesirables’ is acceptable by Western standards (Russia and China have already been adopting the same rhetoric as Western politicians, to conduct their own crackdowns) – because as the old saying goes ‘what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander’.
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@Zibago @waleed3601 @Kaptaan @pak-marine @haviZsultan @Hell hound @Sliver @third eye @Kaniska @Joe Shearer @PersonasNonGrata @flamer84 @A.P. Richelieu @Vergennes
Sometimes, the best way for people to understand whether they are treating their minorities fairly, is to ask, ‘what if they were the minority?’, would they accept the same treatment they dish out to others? On the eve of extreme repressive laws that the UK government have pledged to enact (alongside the Australian government), this question becomes all the more pertinent. So lets see what Secular Liberals would say if the roles were reversed?
Now the Muslim world is generally secular, and Secular Liberals certainly enjoy more freedom to preach their expansionist ideology, than Muslims who call to holistic Islam can. Most Muslim countries currently, actually affirm the freedom for people to hold different religions to Islam, and practice those religions – even in ‘Islamic Republics’ like Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
However, what if the entire Muslim world did the following?:
1) The mainstream Media outlets of the Muslim world begin regularly and continually focusing on stories of criminals amongst the society who happen to be Christians or Secular Liberals, and mention their religion/ideology alongside the details of the crime they committed (even if there is no relation). The Media is then specially focused to stories of which the religion of the Christian or Secular Liberal is loosely connected, like this.
The social prejudice this creates, leads to Christians and Secular Liberals finding it hard to get jobs, leading more into crime, and thus more material for the Muslim mainstream media outlets to publicise.
2) The media regularly invites pundits, and commentators, specifically ex-Christians and ex-Liberals, who spout stories of how ‘christians regularly beat, ostracise or even kill’ their children for converting to Islam. The pundits mention how Liberalism is an intolerant, totalitarian ideology, which was historically spread by the bullet and bayonet, and resulted in millions dying, and therefore all the ADVOCATES of Secular Liberalism are EXTREMISTS and potentially a threat to community cohesion of Muslim society, since they preach an intolerant ideology whose leading thinkers and philosophers (the ‘Ullama al Liberaliyyah’) JUSTIFY killing innocent civilians in the name of the Secular Liberal ideology.
3) The Media holds debates, inviting only Secular Liberals who claim they have no problem with the status-quo of their society, or Islam and merely want to keep themselves to themselves, and live according to Liberalism merely as a personal life choice, and not preach Political Liberalism, or inviting Unitarian Christians (who don’t believe in the Trinity), and portray both of these as the REAL ‘Secular Liberals’ and ‘Christians’, or MODERATES [The Quran does say to Christians ‘do not go to extremes in your religion’]. Then the Media invite onto the same debate, the most ignorant, rambunctious, irrational and fanatical speakers who are called on to defend Trinitarian Christianity and the “political form” of Secular Liberalism, and holding a debate showing only these two points of view, as ‘moderation’ vs extremists, and giving Secular Liberals and Christians watching the program the impression that the only choices are between these two.
4) The Media show stories around the world of Liberal terrorism and Christian Terrorism, from the KKK to the Lord’s Resistance Army of central africa. Secular Liberalism terrorism of Liberal states who bomb countries around the world, invade, torture and assassinate political dissidents (with drones) [which ironically all are true]. However, the media show the arson committed by Secular protesters in Egypt, Tunisia as terrorism, and the deadly bombs against Iranian Nuclear Scientists as ‘proof that Secular Liberalism is a retrograde force, that is anti-science’.
5) Some Muslim countries then enact laws that churches can’t be built with steeples (mirroring the Swiss ban on Minarets upheld by European Court of Human ‘Rights‘), or if they are allowed in other Muslim countries, Christians find it hard to get approval for planning permission from the local council because the local community ‘feel uncomfortable’ with churches being in the area. Or the excuse of ‘parking concerns’ and ‘disruption to traffic’ are citing for the reason churches couldn’t be built.
6) Churches and the offices of Secular Liberal advocacy groups are regularly burnt down, vandalised, defaced or broken into continually by angry vigilante members of the public, incited by the constant publication of anti-Christian and anti-Liberal Media news stories. If any one complains about the media’s slanted bias, they are used as ‘more examples of how Christianity and Liberalism wish to silence other people’s rights to express their opinions’. The politicians of the Muslim governments decry the attacks on Churches and Liberal offices, but do nothing more beyond condemnations.
7) Muslim governments pass laws banning Churches or Secular Liberal advocacy groups from being funded by any foreign states or agencies [e.g. like the recent Austrian law]
8) Muslim governments pass laws that all citizens MUST learn Arabic/Urdu/Turkish/Malay. No one can come to settle in the Muslim country without learning to speak those languages (mirroring the rules enforcing learning of the official language of european states being a requirement of all immigrants).
9) Muslim governments pass laws prohibiting the display of any religious symbols other than Islamic ones in schools. Any child displaying a symbol will be sent home. Laws also state that Secular Liberals must wear full body and head covering if they are to attend schools (e.g. mirroring France’s laws)
10) Muslim governments pass laws that state that any woman dressed in Western clothing in public, is to be fined. This includes tourists, especially American, English and other european ones, who especially show disregard to native clothing in the countries they visit [which is true]. (e.g. mirroring France and many European state’s laws banning Niqab in public).
11) Muslim governments pass laws that ban the slaughter of pigs for food, declaring such food ‘unfit for human consumption’ (e.g. mirroring the recent ban by some european countries on halal/kosher slaughter).
12) Muslim governments pass laws stating that Christians are forbidden to pray in public (e.g. mirroring France’s law against public prayer – mainly against Muslims)
13) Muslim governments respond to the scant acts of terrorism, or crime by the Christian minorities and militant Secular groups (like Tamarod), by getting Security agencies to spy on, harrass and infiltrate their their entire communities. Stopping Christians and Liberals at airports, subjecting them to searches, delays, hours of interrogation and blocking the passports of some suspected of working with foreign Liberal or Christian governments, or in participating in potential terror acts (real or imagined). The restrictions are justified by citing that the potential for even one act of terror is reason enough to take all measures possible (mirroring USA, UK, Australian, French etc security agencies). These measures cause grievances amongst Christians and Liberals and lead to more acts of terrorism, which then are used to justify more security measures.
14) Muslim governments kidnap suspect Christians and Liberals across the world, and subject them to torture, ‘just in case’ they yield useful information on potential crimes and terror attacks against the Muslim governments.
15) Muslim governments implement ‘extremism disruption orders’ on Trinitarian Christian preachers, or Secular Liberal ‘Human Rights Activists’, who they accuse of being ‘extremists’, preaching ideologies of hate and intolerance to Islam. These orders prohibit the preachers from speaking in public, or posting anything online without prior approval from the police force. (mirroring UK’s Theresa May’s recent proposal).
16) Muslim governments implement laws that close down any Church of Liberal advocacy office, that hosts or fails to prevent, any Trinitarian Christian preacher or Secular Liberal advocate deemed ‘extremist’. (mirroring UK’s Theresa May’s recent proposal).
17) Muslim governments implements laws stating that anyone who works in the public sector, whether doctor, teacher, nurse or care worker, must report anyone, including children, to the government who is suspected of being a Trinitarian Christian or Advocate for political Liberalism (including children). These identified individuals will be put on a special ‘Channel Program’, that will ‘de-radicalise’ the child or adult from being Trinitarian, or believing that Liberalism should be applied politically. (Mirroring the new CTS law in the UK).
18) Muslim government politicians give speeches that demand that Christians and Liberals ‘follow the values of the country they are in’, and that ‘these values are not a choice’ (mirroring UK Prime Minister’s David Cameron’s August Speech).
19) Muslim government funds groups and advocacy groups which promote Unitarian Christianity and the ‘moderate’ Christian position, and also Secular Liberal groups that advocate that Secular Liberalism is not a political ideology, and merely a personal lifestyle choice to be lived only at home, or in private buildings devoted its practices – any Liberal who calls for the political implementation of Liberalism, is called a ‘Liberalist’, and portrayed as following a ‘warped interpretation of Liberalism’. Members from these government funded groups are given pride of place on the media, and portrayed as true representative of their religions and ideologies.
Secular liberalism would be portrayed as only relevant for a unique European context 300 years ago and that needs to go through a “reformation”, and become a private belief.
So what if the Muslim world implemented all these laws, policies and strategies? Would anyone say the muslim world is intolerant if these 19 points above were the actual policies and treatment of minorities of the Muslim world? Even if the Muslim governments declared that they ‘support the freedom of Christians and Liberals to live and practice their faith’ but, to quote one UK conservative MP their ‘country is not a free for all’ for those they CONSIDERED ‘extremists’. Of course they would!
Now if any Secular Liberals reading this, would disagree with the Muslim world implementing any of these rules, or doing nothing to prevent the social problems exacerbated by an out-of-control media, you can start your ‘human rights’ work AT HOME, in Europe, North America, Australia and so on against your own governments — before you going around the world preaching something your own civilisation doesn’t practice.
However, if you think the West is justified to do any of these, or in allowing the Media to exacerbate social problems as it does, then do nothing, and no doubt the Muslim world will understand loud and clear from the West’s example, that countries doing these things to their minorities, political dissidents and ‘undesirables’ is acceptable by Western standards (Russia and China have already been adopting the same rhetoric as Western politicians, to conduct their own crackdowns) – because as the old saying goes ‘what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander’.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Zibago @waleed3601 @Kaptaan @pak-marine @haviZsultan @Hell hound @Sliver @third eye @Kaniska @Joe Shearer @PersonasNonGrata @flamer84 @A.P. Richelieu @Vergennes
