What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

[Indika]

This is a nation that first went to France for LHD and now are proposing they will build a 65,000+ ton aircraft carrier for India? No thanks.

India can and will build it itself, they are simply looking for technical partners, not an off the shelf design- their design (NDB's) is already in the advanced stages of finalisation.

Thats why they say when you try hard enough the whole world conspires to help you succeed for their own benefit.

 

[Ind4Ever]

This is a nation that first went to France for LHD and now are proposing they will build a 65,000+ ton aircraft carrier for India? No thanks.

India can and will build it itself, they are simply looking for technical partners, not an off the shelf design- their design (NDB's) is already in the advanced stages of finalisation.

Russians went to French for LHD not because they lack innovation . But the lack enough funds for on going projects itself.

So îndią should use this opportunity to build two 65 k T AC . one with US and the other with Russians at the same time . Both super powers will compete against each others . Îndią will have three AC only after 2026/27 that's 10 more years away . Why not maintain four Carrier or 5 . By going for twin IAC2 and another Vikrant carrier ? All build in India ?

 

[Ind4Ever]

Agreed to Abingdonboy 100%.

How could a broken Ru naval industry unable to make high-end LHDs so that they had
to order Mistrals, whose homemade products are either obsolete or rusting away and
the prowesses of which India witnessed with the Vik suddenly design a modern carrier?

The proper way is : build stuff yourself that undeniably works and then export it ...
not run your mouth off like a used car salesman hoping for gullible victims.

It actually brought back a memory of an old Eurhythmics song :

Travel the world and the 7 seas, trying not to sink ... some of them want to abuse you ...​

correctly titled : Sweet dreams are made of this.

Or if one asks the IN, sweet nightmares? India might want to adopt a modified American motto :

-Remember the Vikramo!
​

So still as a musical reference : Propa-gandhi, that's all! Tay.

Right now we must build in India. That's the much needed objective. Russians can share lots of technologies with îndią including high end nuclear reactors . Best way for us is to go for two 65000 T AC one based on US design and another with Russians.

 

[#hydra#]

E

Right now we must build in India. That's the much needed objective. Russians can share lots of technologies with îndią including high end nuclear reactors . Best way for us is to go for two 65000 T AC one based on US design and another with Russians.

Either u should go all russian or all american one,otherwise it won't be economical to up keep two defferent products.

 

[nang2]

Can current Mig29K Indian Navy operate take off from CATOBAR aircraft carrier?

 

[desimorty]

i certainly dont trust russians when it comes to aircraft carrier.their own carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" suffers from many problems and we all know the delay and cost escalation in ins viki.and mig29 is not something we should have on our future carrier when there are better option(rafale and f-35).
better to stick with usa or france and gain from their enormous experience in carrier making.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

The French had issues with their own AC. So who else is reliable enough? US of A?

Can current Mig29K Indian Navy operate take off from CATOBAR aircraft carrier?

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

I don't see an issue with slight modification to the landing gear. The design is superior to Hornets, Flankers etc when it comes to short takeoffs with with out catapults. The entire body of the Falcrum creates lift hence why the Falcrum set records even with some mediocre engines.

Agreed to Abingdonboy 100%.

How could a broken Ru naval industry unable to make high-end LHDs so that they had
to order Mistrals, whose homemade products are either obsolete or rusting away and
the prowesses of which India witnessed with the Vik suddenly design a modern carrier?

The proper way is : build stuff yourself that undeniably works and then export it ...
not run your mouth off like a used car salesman hoping for gullible victims.

It actually brought back a memory of an old Eurhythmics song :
Travel the world and the 7 seas, trying not to sink ... some of them want to abuse you ...
correctly titled : Sweet dreams are made of this.

Or if one asks the IN, sweet nightmares? India might want to adopt a modified American motto :
-Remember the Vikramo!
So still as a musical reference : Propa-gandhi, that's all! Tay.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

Thats happens, but things are changing. They're rusted buckets are bombing the crap out of ISIS.

i certainly dont trust russians when it comes to aircraft carrier.their own carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" suffers from many problems and we all know the delay and cost escalation in ins viki.and mig29 is not something we should have on our future carrier when there are better option(rafale and f-35).
better to stick with usa or france and gain from their enormous experience in carrier making.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

The French had issues with their own AC. So who else is reliable enough? US of A?

Can current Mig29K Indian Navy operate take off from CATOBAR aircraft carrier?

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

I don't see an issue with slight modification to the landing gear. The design is superior to Hornets, Flankers etc when it comes to short takeoffs with with out catapults. The entire body of the Falcrum creates lift hence why the Falcrum set records even with some mediocre engines.

Agreed to Abingdonboy 100%.

How could a broken Ru naval industry unable to make high-end LHDs so that they had
to order Mistrals, whose homemade products are either obsolete or rusting away and
the prowesses of which India witnessed with the Vik suddenly design a modern carrier?

The proper way is : build stuff yourself that undeniably works and then export it ...
not run your mouth off like a used car salesman hoping for gullible victims.

It actually brought back a memory of an old Eurhythmics song :
Travel the world and the 7 seas, trying not to sink ... some of them want to abuse you ...
correctly titled : Sweet dreams are made of this.

Or if one asks the IN, sweet nightmares? India might want to adopt a modified American motto :
-Remember the Vikramo!
So still as a musical reference : Propa-gandhi, that's all! Tay.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

Thats happens, but things are changing. They're rusted buckets are bombing the crap out of ISIS.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

The French had issues with their own AC. So who else is reliable enough? US of A?

But USA would never share any meaningful tech, and let's be honest here: "Russia does not have much tech to transfer for surface ships". It is a sector in which we are very close to Russians, if not better.

I don't see an issue with slight modification to the landing gear. The design is superior to Hornets, Flankers etc when it comes to short takeoffs with with out catapults. The entire body of the Falcrum creates lift hence why the Falcrum set records even with some mediocre engines.

The whole point of having a CATOBAR carrier is lost, if you fly a fourth gen Mig-29 from it.

For a CATOBAR carrier, Rafale-M until N-AMCA is developed is better option; and if USA agree to rpovide consultancy on N-reactors ,even flying F-35 (who would come as package) would not be a bad deal.

Thats happens, but things are changing. They're rusted buckets are bombing the crap out of ISIS.

ISIS does not have an airforce. Even Spitfires could bomb crap out of them.

 

[surya kiran]

So îndią should use this opportunity to build two 65 k T AC . one with US and the other with Russians at the same time .

Logistical nightmare.

 

[Skull and Bones]

STOBAR for a strategic nuclear powered Aircraft carrier doesn't make any sense.

So îndią should use this opportunity to build two 65 k T AC . one with US and the other with Russians at the same time .

There is no advantage of a STOBAR for a 65k AC, and given the time required to absorb the technology, the project will be delayed further.

 

[desimorty]

But USA would never share any meaningful tech, and let's be honest here: "Russia does not have much tech to transfer for surface ships". It is a sector in which we are very close to Russians, if not better.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

The Russians have the experience. Its not as much as the US but the USSR did have some pretty good RnD. Russia was involved with supplying parts of designs and machines for the Vikrant.

The whole point of having a CATOBAR carrier is lost, if you fly a fourth gen Mig-29 from it.

For a CATOBAR carrier, Rafale-M until N-AMCA is developed is better option; and if USA agree to rpovide consultancy on N-reactors ,even flying F-35 (who would come as package) would not be a bad deal.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

Nope. The Falcrum still can not take of with a full payload from STOBAR. CATABOR would increase and max out any craft payload. Does not mean IN should drop Falcrums for Rafales. Remember, the Falcrums can be upgraded and come with a decent weapons package and a much lower fly away cost.

ISIS does not have an airforce. Even Spitfires could bomb crap out of them.

Source: What if Russian Project 23000E can be base for future Indian nuclear AC.

If Russia was using vintage WWII birds the Saudi led ISIS would have walked over them. The fact that its Russia doing this causes heart attacks to the idiots to supplied ISIS. They have freakin 12,000 cruisers armed with less than a hundred missiles. Even if you are the USN, thats still a lot of explosives.
Give the RUssians some credit. They may not have the money, but they do have and still have the 2nd largest arsenal of weapons on the planet.

 

[kaykay]

STOBAR for a strategic nuclear powered Aircraft carrier doesn't make any sense.



There is no advantage of a STOBAR for a 65k AC, and given the time required to absorb the technology, the project will be delayed further.

It will be mixed of both Stobar and Catobar....( 2 launch platforms for each). Also here its about IAC-3. Ins Vishall( IAC-2) is with USA' help.

 

[Hephaestus]

Russians went to French for LHD not because they lack innovation . But the lack enough funds for on going projects itself.

So îndią should use this opportunity to build two 65 k T AC . one with US and the other with Russians at the same time . Both super powers will compete against each others . Îndią will have three AC only after 2026/27 that's 10 more years away . Why not maintain four Carrier or 5 . By going for twin IAC2 and another Vikrant carrier ? All build in India ?

4-5 AC's.
4 AC's is what methinks is ideally required. 1 - EF, 2 - WF, 3 IOR, 4 - In Docks for Service.
INS Baaz NAS is anyways looking into the Malacca straits.

But the economics of it is something that doesn't look so feasible. Other ships in CBG, support ships.

So, would the yanks allows us to install EMALS on the russian built one. Would both be conventional or nuclear? What would we choose for the CIWS.
Interesting times

 

[Immortan.Joe]

The Russians have the experience. Its not as much as the US but the USSR did have some pretty good RnD. Russia was involved with supplying parts of designs and machines for the Vikrant.

Russia has neglected R&D for too long. Currently it is reaping fruits which USSR sowed.

In case of Shipbuilding industry, India has objectively become advanced enough that Russia could contribute very little by way of technological support. It has to go to French to build its Amphibious assault ships.

And regarding vikrant: What major thing ,except Mig-29K and arrestor wire and gears, is Russian? All major parts of Vikrant are either western or Indian. They were supposed to supply carrier grade steel, but they reneged and it was SAIL who came up with Carrier grade steel.

Nope. The Falcrum still can not take of with a full payload from STOBAR. CATABOR would increase and max out any craft payload. Does not mean IN should drop Falcrums for Rafales. Remember, the Falcrums can be upgraded and come with a decent weapons package and a much lower fly away cost.

What good is lower flyway cost when life time cost is higher?

A Mig-29K ,though a very good platform, is still objectively inferior to Rafael-M , F-35C, and future N-AMCA, and N-FGFA is neither suitable for carrier operation (due to its size and weight class) and is as much a paper plane as N-AMCA is . Using Mig-29 from a CATOBAR carrier would be a waste of that Carrier's potential.

If Russia was using vintage WWII birds the Saudi led ISIS would have walked over them. The fact that its Russia doing this causes heart attacks to the idiots to supplied ISIS.

That Saudi led ISIS does not have an Airforce, and no one could come out to defend it from air-attacks without being eviscerated in public opinion and being attacked by Russia, which Arabs with their useless ground armies, could not afford.

Again, even Spitfire would bomb the crap out of ISIS and their beloved goats and donkeys.

They have freakin 12,000 cruisers armed with less than a hundred missiles.

Even if you are the USN, thats still a lot of explosives.

A Soviet legacy.

If India wants, it could expand its Project 15A/B program to produce cruisers, rather than Vanilla destroyers.

Give the RUssians some credit. They may not have the money, but they do have and still have the 2nd largest arsenal of weapons on the planet.

I give them enough credit, but seems like fellow Indians are not giving enough credit to Indian Shipbuilding Industry.

They have a good shipbuilding industry, but with the development in Indian shipbuilding capability over last decade and half, technological gap between Russians and Indians has narrowed down significantly.

Benefits of tying up with French or Americans is much higher than Russian in case of surface ships.

 

[kaykay]

PS: This will be fourth Indian cartier( IAC-3) with close to 100000 ton displacement. ( if russian proposal is selected then Naval Pak-fa will be prime fighter on this)

 

[Ind4Ever]

PS: This will be fourth Indian cartier( IAC-3) with close to 100000 ton displacement. ( if russian proposal is selected then Naval Pak-fa will be prime fighter on this)

Looks like our dream comes true ... True nuclear powered carrier with fifth generation fighter jet . IAC3 hope we will place follow on order for Ins Vikrant too.... 4 carriers on duty 1 as reserve Or 3 carriers on duty two as reserve . finger crossed for this news to become true.

4-5 AC's.
4 AC's is what methinks is ideally required. 1 - EF, 2 - WF, 3 IOR, 4 - In Docks for Service.
INS Baaz NAS is anyways looking into the Malacca straits.

But the economics of it is something that doesn't look so feasible. Other ships in CBG, support ships.

So, would the yanks allows us to install EMALS on the russian built one. Would both be conventional or nuclear? What would we choose for the CIWS.
Interesting times

No I think in future we will have one AC all time placed at Andaman too for offensive moves. 3 Naval command to receive one each . One at reserve for rotation . We need 5 AC and that's our plan

STOBAR for a strategic nuclear powered Aircraft carrier doesn't make any sense.



There is no advantage of a STOBAR for a 65k AC, and given the time required to absorb the technology, the project will be delayed further.

Its going to be Flat deck and catapult system . And its going to be above 65kT