What Does Indian Defence Get in Military Projects Worth ₹34,260 Crore?

[Abingdonboy]

@Dillinger @Abingdonboy Guys little clarification...are the FSS vessels acquisition going to cancel out the
supposed acquisition of 4 new replenishment vessels (PSG told me IN was looking for 4 additional RVs such as
Deepak-class), or does such an acquisition plan exist at all? I don't have much clarity about this.

Unless I see something to the contrary I would very much assume the 5 FSS were instead of the 4 additional Deepak-Class FRS. I don't see the IN ordering 9 logistical ships to be inducted by 2020 seems a little excessive.

Will have to check, no idea atm.

Please do bro, would love to have some clarification on this- I am sceptical but wouldn't mind being proven wrong at all (the Deepaks have performed "beautifully" in IN service- a quote my friend told me directly from a a senior IN officer ).

 

[Dillinger]

Unless I see something to the contrary I would very much assume the 5 FSS were instead of the 4 additional Deepak-Class FRS. I don't see the IN ordering 9 logistical ships to be inducted by 2020 seems a little excessive.


Please do bro, would love to have some clarification on this- I am sceptical but wouldn't mind being proven wrong at all (the Deepaks have performed "beautifully" in IN service- a quote my friend told me directly from a a senior IN officer ).

I believe that the Deepak's design was modified ending up with the the singular Aditya class ship.

Above- the lone Aditya class vessel.

Only one of these is in service along with the two Deepaks, so I don't really see a point in acquiring more Deepaks.

Besides, the current crop of FSS like DCNS's BRAVE are a cut above the Deepaks so it does seem unlikely that a fresh batch of the same will be ordered anytime soon.

 

[Gessler]

Now why in hell didn't we build more Aditya-class vessels?

 

[cirr]

Don't waste money funding America's defence industry

Use the money to develop your own defence industry。

 

[Abingdonboy]

I believe that the Deepak's design was modified ending up with the the singular Aditya class ship.

Above- the lone Aditya class vessel.

Only one of these is in service along with the two Deepaks, so I don't really see a point in acquiring more Deepaks.

Besides, the current crop of FSS like DCNS's BRAVE are a cut above the Deepaks so it does seem unlikely that a fresh batch of the same will be ordered anytime soon.

I agree the FSS of today such as the Brave class (as you pointed out) are superior to the Deepak class the IN currently has in service in most measures (primarily their swing role capability). However I could see there being some utility in ordering a few more cheaper Deepak-class FRS whilst simulantiously going for the likes of the Brave FSS but I wouldn't advocate more Deepaks in place of a FSS.

As a relatively cheap option(compared to the FSS) the Deepaks are very useful ships that have impressed the IN.

Now why in hell didn't we build more Aditya-class vessels?

i've often wondered that- I'm guessing the funds crunch that came into play around the early 1990s had something to do with this.

 

[Dillinger]

I agree the FSS of today such as the Brave class (as you pointed out) are superior to the Deepak class the IN currently has in service in most measures (primarily their swing role capability). However I could see there being some utility in ordering a few more cheaper Deepak-class FRS whilst simulantiously going for the likes of the Brave FSS but I wouldn't advocate more Deepaks in place of a FSS.

As a relatively cheap option(compared to the FSS) the Deepaks are very useful ships that have impressed the IN.


i've often wondered that- I'm guessing the funds crunch that came into play around the early 1990s had something to do with this.

Funds may not allow that, the treasury is empty so to speak.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Funds may not allow that, the treasury is empty so to speak.

In the short term capital acquisition budgets are facing a temporary issue but this will be addressed within 2-4 years so nothing to really affect the Indian military's medium to long term modernisation efforts.

 

[Echo_419]

Don't waste money funding America's defence industry

Use the money to develop your own defence industry。

Actually everything Except the Planes are Indian products built in India from the Fleet supply ships to the Helicopters
We will have to Import the planes since we don't have expertise in that field
16 will be imported & 40 will be made by us

 

[Killswitch]

Still waiting for:

F INSAS (gear, weapons)
Artillery purchases (thousands of towed light spg)
Air defence (this might be done soon)

Submarines (years behind schedule)
Naval medium helicopters (see above)

Rafale
New AWACS/ A2A refueller


I hope this all gets done by Christmas.

The Congress has made our forces so weak from lack of funds and kit.

My hopes are Modi really gets things done this year.

 

[Dillinger]

In the short term capital acquisition budgets are facing a temporary issue but this will be addressed within 2-4 years so nothing to really affect the Indian military's medium to long term modernisation efforts.

@Gessler

Lets hope so.

Ok, the Deepaks were designed by Fincantieri and built by it too. Now the current tender asks for a full load displacement of about 40,000 tons so the Deepaks or the Aditya are most assuredly not going to be considered, at least not the current design in its entirety, perhaps a modification of the same to meet the new requirements might be pitched by Fincantieri (and honestly I can't complain, their speed of delivery and the quality of the ships was astounding). Furthermore there does not seem to be any additional tender for auxiliary or fleet support ships other than the current tender so follow on orders for the Deepak alongside the current tender are not going to occur.

The details of the tender:- http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del559005&wno=1&td=TD

The two ships that come to mind immediately are the DCNS's BRAVE and the MARS ships.

DCNS's BRAVE



The BRAVE though is not in service, although it does provide its share of desirable attributes (http://en.dcnsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/61144.pdf), if Fincantieri can work on its success with the Deepaks then it might stand a very good chance of bagging the tender over DCNS.

This of course does not stop me from admiring the BRAVE, the design caters to the primary UNREP function quite well.

Korea has had success with Norway and Britain in this regard, Daewoo shall be building the MARS class ships for Britain which max out at 37,000 tons (reports suggest that Daewoo beat out the Fincantieri bid on price). These ships are based on the Aegir design concept from BMT, the design is scalable and Norway has opted for the Aegir 18 while Britain has gone with the Aegir 26 (http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/5145228/AXPD001_0514_Aegir.pdf).

BMT/Daewoo's Tide class MARS ship.

 

[Gessler]

@Dillinger Are there two BRAVE-class designs? -

^^Also from DCNS. Euronaval 2012 descriptions say this is also called BRAVE-class ?? Is this the old design?

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Dillinger Are there two BRAVE-class designs? -

^^Also from DCNS. Euronaval 2012 descriptions say this is also called BRAVE-class ?? Is this the old design?

I can't see the differences. I know, like the Tide class, there are 2 different sizes offered (180m and 205m).

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Foreign design, with the last batch of vessels being built in India, and we've got L&T and MDL which can accommodate the size and tonnage, dunno about Pipavav.

Pipavav can build much larger ships than either MDL or L&T. The large building dock at Pipavav can build 4 of the FSSs at the same time, its VLCC sized!

Warship building activities MUST be progressively shifted to the large private ship-yards. They are built from the ground up for modular ship construction, something that the DPSU yards are absorbing only now.

 

[Gessler]

I can't see the differences. I know, like the Tide class, there are 2 different sizes offered (180m and 205m).

BRAVE #1 -

BRAVE #2 -

The front part is the difference, I guess. Which is 180m and which is 205m ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Lol, not just the DGCA, that's the global norm, single engined helos are not meant for sustained over water ops.

The S-70B is indeed the best out there, the NH-90s had some teething issues so the S-70 it should be, not to mention the FMS route should cut down on the "bribery" charges.

@Abingdonboy Not to mention that the LHDs would require their own complement of helos.

Forget about sustained use.....single engined Helos are not certified for any use above seas in any country with a worth-while Aviation Regulatory Authority; which includes India.

No ONGC personnel will ever board a single engined Helo for the ferry trip to an offshore installation!

I believe that the Deepak's design was modified ending up with the the singular Aditya class ship.

Above- the lone Aditya class vessel.

Only one of these is in service along with the two Deepaks, so I don't really see a point in acquiring more Deepaks.

Besides, the current crop of FSS like DCNS's BRAVE are a cut above the Deepaks so it does seem unlikely that a fresh batch of the same will be ordered anytime soon.

The INS Aditya was a one-off ship built to a Blohm & Voss design by GRSE. Its a dated design now.
There is a similarly one-off INS Jyoti which was acquired from SU/Russia.
The Deepak class from Fincantieri is a more contemporary design.