What does China think about Kashmir. My POV

[saadee]

Hi. Now I will ask you to tell me which is East Germany in this case in Kashmir.

East Germany, there was a failing government, atrocious economy, conditions, and absolutely no desire among East Germans to take part in any elections in East Germany. East germany went back to the original country they were 1st broken off from.

Secondly, I can't tell you how much there is no way, no how, no chance for international intervention on this. Nobody is going to do it, nobody wants to do it, and not even a single permanent security council member is keen on it. You have to come to terms on this honestly. I'm sorry.

The only problem in between Pakistan and India is Kashmir. U.S,U.K,CHINA and France voted for Pakistan from the past 50 years. Russia is the only country that vetoed against the resolution and everybody knows that Russia was the biggest arm market for the India. Lord mound batten is the one who created all of this trouble. The majority of the Kashmiri population was based on the Muslims so why they chose to give it to India? Maharaja himself fleed from the Kashmir because people in Jammu refused to live under his command.

 

[Dash]

There is not going to be war unless we see another 26/11. Which if it were to happen, would mean Pakistan would be heavily sanctioned and isolated.

And who will sanction Pakistan? the legitimacy behind that would be?

 

[PoKeMon]

I believe Pakistan's position on Kashmir is wrong. It would be much better to rally the international community behind the Pakistan Administered Kashmir for a free and fair referendum. If AJK chooses to become an independent state and India doesn't reciprocate by holding a referendum in Indian administered Kashmir, it would become easier and more legitimate for an independent AJK to take its narrative to the international community for 'reunification'. In my opinion the Kashmir issue is very similar to the East and West Germany. Both parts were administered by two different powers with conflicting interests, the area was heavily militarized and the real people suffering from it were the German people. In Kashmir the Kashmiri people suffer from the conflicting interests of Pakistan and India. The ideal solution that will stand the test of time is the reunification of Kashmir into a new and sovereign nation state. If that happens, the very long held dream of ''breakfast in Dehli, Lunch in Islamabad and dinner in Kabul can be realised ''.

Be practical and rationale.

Pak can not allow AJK to part way just to muse people like you who would find solace watching kashmir going out of Indian republic.

 

[hans]

Kashmir is not China`s business. its issue between India and Pak.Why should we care..
Also personally I would suggest to divide the India-Pak border by religious.
Muslim to Pak and Hindu to India..
Occupy too much population that is not the major race will be painful.
And I think Russia will be China`s Canada and India will be more like Mexico...

Hi. Some of you know my background from the initial introduction I made when I joined these forums. And those who did not read it, pretty much assumed my background from the name I've taken here. Something you may missed all the same, was that my background and the theater I was specifically deployed to was the South Asia Theater, specifically Afghanistan / Pakistan and India.

While I’ve been here, I've been struggling with what areas I go into, discuss openly without compromising privileged conversations and communications. Let's face it, even after retirement I'm obliged to keep silent on the very many interactions I've been honored to have as US State department employee.

There some areas I can speak to in broad strokes and I've been thinking that I should here. Forewarning- the nature of these forthcoming posts you may find very cryptic and opaque.

Having stated that - I would like to start introducing and hope to do this from time to time, posts that speak to this specific region and my experiences when dealing with the various diplomatic corps, think thanks and what I qualify as deeply ingrained and deeply experienced people with knowledge of this region.

Here is my snippet about China's stance on Kashmir. Much of this has been behind closed doors and you won't see it being discussed in the media often.

China is wary of the Kashmir issue and is trying to balance their act of being a good ally with Pakistan- when it comes to stating their support. Very rarely will you see China speak on Kashmir and support Pakistan’s position all out. Rather most for what you will official see is at best a tactic support.

The reason for this and what I've encountered is twofold:
On one end, China does not want to open the Pandora’s Box to then give any sort of legitimacy to groups in Taiwan, HK, Tibet and SCS. Can you imagine a plebiscite call or any U.N negotiations in those regions?

On the other end, they do not want to write off India. For China to be successful as far their global ambitions go, they truly need India to be their Canada, if not a somewhat prickly Mexico.

Feel free to discuss the merit of what I submitted, and I'll try to answer as much as can.

 

[saadee]

Hi. Now I will ask you to tell me which is East Germany in this case in Kashmir.

East Germany, there was a failing government, atrocious economy, conditions, and absolutely no desire among East Germans to take part in any elections in East Germany. East germany went back to the original country they were 1st broken off from.

Secondly, I can't tell you how much there is no way, no how, no chance for international intervention on this. Nobody is going to do it, nobody wants to do it, and not even a single permanent security council member is keen on it. You have to come to terms on this honestly. I'm sorry.

In addition, Indians captured five of our canals along with Ferozpur dam with the help of east India company.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

There is not going to be war unless we see another 26/11. Which if it were to happen, would mean Pakistan would be heavily sanctioned and isolated. Even then, it will be a limited engagement ( mini war), and there is no chance of Pakistan using any nuclear weapons because of the limited nature of the engagement.

There is only one way for both countries and most importantly for Pakistan to get back to being economy focused and successful. That is accepting current boundaries.

I've had this discussion a hundred times with different people in different governments. Sixty plus years = statute of limitations has expired.

This thing has run its course.

All the romantic notions of changing the maps is a matter of the past. India is fine with the status quo. So is the world. Pakistan alone can hold on to her illusions for as long as it suits her, but India or the world community is unlikely to be bothered.

After the cross border proxy wars initiated by her, there is no strong ground on which Pak foreign policy can stand on.

 

[AgentOrange]

Support to what end? Is Pakistan able to make a move? Is this a core issue for China? Is this even a core issue for Pakistan anymore?

Also, if you were to ask 100 people in China their opinion on Kashmir, you get the same answer, where?



Second, being in such a position, what is your opinion on Tibet? You really think they will break away? Even if we do give them the chance?

Taiwan and HK wants to break away regardless, but I don't think no legitimacy was the thing that kept them here, is it.

South China Sea isn't a nation, I'm not sure how it can be independent, thus not getting the reference here.



I'm pretty sure India wants to be the America to our Canada, whether that's doable is ify, but I doubt they want to be seen as weaker to us.

Furthermore, since China is a P5 member, I don't see how there could be any meaningful UN involvement in Tibet and HK. For one, those areas are not under international dispute, crazed ranting from Hollywood liberals and hippies aside. They're recognized by literally every other nation on earth as a part of China. Not disputed territory and not in any way comparable to Kashmir. And Taiwan isn't even recognized by the UN as a member state. And that "state department" guy mentioned a plebiscite in the South China Sea? Who would be voting? Fish?

No offense to "US retired State Dept" but for a supposedly informed official, his first thread seems remarkably uninformed. But hey, it's the internet. Anyone can claim to be anything.

 

[saadee]

Be practical and rationale.

Pak can not allow AJK to part way just to muse people like you who would find solace watching kashmir going out of Indian republic.

They have their own cabinet, president and prime minister. What are you talking about? Can you arrange a fair referendum in Jammu? Would you even bother to ask people of Jammu about who they want to live with?

 

[Blue_Eyes]

There is not going to be war unless we see another 26/11. Which if it were to happen, would mean Pakistan would be heavily sanctioned and isolated. Even then, it will be a limited engagement ( mini war), and there is no chance of Pakistan using any nuclear weapons because of the limited nature of the engagement.

There is only one way for both countries and most importantly for Pakistan to get back to being economy focused and successful. That is accepting current boundaries.

I've had this discussion a hundred times with different people in different governments. Sixty plus years = statute of limitations has expired.

This thing has run its course.

sir, you are absolutely right.
Even we have offered this solution to pakistan to make loc an IB, but they denied.
And that is why conflict is still going on.
In short pakistan has to understand that not a single inch of IK is going to be part of pakistan, be it war , diplomacy , proxy war, they have tried all and got nothing.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

They have their own cabinet, president and prime minister. What are you talking about? Can you arrange a fair referendum in Jammu? Would you even bother to ask people of Jammu about who they want to live with?

Yes, they have a Government, even a Parliament and a Prime Minister. A Government that even Pakistan does not recognize, let alone any other country.

Pakistan instead has a Kashmir Ministry and even that is one of the weakest in the 'Federation'. You know that.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Not going to happen. That's annexed. Also a huge chunk now belongs to China. Delusions are apparent.

@Horus - The above is a valid and critical argument to any plebiscite taking place on Pakistan's side of Kashmir, and as you've suggested.

It can't happen on your side with any legitimacy because a portion has been handed off to China.

Does that make sense, my friend?

 

[PoKeMon]

They have their own cabinet, president and prime minister. What are you talking about? Can you arrange a fair referendum in Jammu? Would you even bother to ask people of Jammu about who they want to live with?

Azad!!

Sub section 3 of section 31 of 'AJK' constitution reads, "neither the Council nor the Assembly shall have the power to make any law concerning- (a) the responsibilities of Government of Pakistan under UNCIP resolutions; (b) the defence and security of Azad Jammu and Kashmir; (c) the current coin or the issue of any bills, notes or other paper currency; or (d) the external affairs of Azad Jammu and Kashmir including foreign trade and foreign aid".9 Section 19 (2) states that the government of 'AJK' has to comply with the rules made by the 'AJK' council, which is headed by the prime minister of Pakistan. Out of 13 members, the Pakistani prime minister nominates 5 members. Hence, the Kashmir Council, supposed to be an Upper House of 'AJK' legislature, has the Pakistan prime minister as chairman

Dont give this Azad $hit to anyone, atleast not to me.

 

[saadee]

All the romantic notions of changing the maps is a matter of the past. India is fine with the status quo. So is the world. Pakistan alone can hold on to her illusions for as long as it suits her, but India or the world community is unlikely to be bothered.

After the cross border proxy wars initiated by her, there is no strong ground on which Pak foreign policy can stand on.

Let me ask you one question. You Indians always cry about 26/11 but always hesitate to talk about Samghauta express. Why is that? 68 bodies came to Pakistan and the train was blown up by the Indian terrorist organization called RSS. The main culprit is still breathing behind the bars and RSS is roaming all over the country. There is a huge list of their crimes

And who will sanction Pakistan? the legitimacy behind that would be?[/QUO

Yes, they have a Government, even a Parliament and a Prime Minister. A Government that even Pakistan does not recognize, let alone any other country.

Pakistan instead has a Kashmir Ministry and even that is one of the weakest in the 'Federation'. You know that.

There is something called respecting others wishes. At least we gave them right to live the way they want to NOT like you who failed to deliver the basic rights the people of Jammu

 

[third eye]

Its due to uber nationalist people like you, no progress has been made so far.

I dont know what you call progress. So far as India is concerned progress is well under way.

Only yesterday the BJP has won enough seats in the state assembly to be in reckoning - something unheard of not long ago.

Pakistan needs to reconcile itself to its geography and cherish what it has - not lament what it has not.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Let me ask you one question. You Indians always cry about 26/11 but always hesitate to talk about Samghauta express. Why is that? 68 bodies came to Pakistan and the train was blown up by the Indian terrorist organization called RSS. The main culprit is still breathing behind the bars and RSS is roaming all over the country. There is a huge list of their crimes


There is something called respecting others wishes. At least we gave them right to live the way they want to NOT like you who failed to deliver the basic rights the people of Jammu

The first part is irrelevant to this topic.

Respecting other's wishes is not a valid point to incorporate major national policy decisions. As for Jammu, go there and say in public. You will get your answer from the people.