What does a Bangladeshi of today thinks of Pakistan?

[Wolf]

FB.. And yes I copied her post Aswell.. Just in case some fool wanted proof.

Dear Sir, the opinion of one or some does not reflect the opinion of a nation. On this very forum, our Bangladeshi friends have condemned the act. Furthermore, even no indian can approve of such a heinous act.

 

[Imran Khan]

funny part of this rape story

pakistan army was not rapist before 1971
pakistani army is not rapist after 1971


it was turned on to be rapist just for 9 months and then suddenly rape switch was off

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah I do have a clue.
For Bangladeshis,Porkistan is a terrorist country:rofl

Not sorry your for what your "mom" went through.. Dirty monkey bastard.

Dear Sir, the opinion of one or some does not reflect the opinion of a nation. On this very forum, our Bangladeshi friends have condemned the act. Furthermore, even no indian can approve of such a heinous act.

Sure ... But when a bunch of people cheer deaths on forums (including Indian forums).. And you have bad experiences with these ppl... Than you tend to not care.

 

[Swastika]

maybe they envy Pakistan for having Turkish, Persian, Arab and other central Asian Genes I am not sure tho.

 

[kobiraaz]

Book review of Dead Reckoning by Sharmila Bose ( i will try to find a link of whole book)



This ground-breaking book chronicles the 1971 war in South Asia by reconstituting the memories of those on opposing sides of the conflict. 1971 was marked by a bitter civil war within Pakistan and war between India and Pakistan, backed respectively by the Soviet Union and the United States. It was fought over the territory of East Pakistan, which seceded to become Bangladesh. Through a detailed investigation of events on the ground, Sarmila Bose contextualises and humanises the war while analysing what the events reveal about the nature of the conflict itself. The story of 1971 has so far been dominated by the narrative of the victorious side. All parties to the war are still largely imprisoned by wartime partisan mythologies. Bose reconstructs events via interviews conducted in Bangladesh and Pakistan, published and unpublished reminiscences in Bengali and English of participants on all sides, official documents, foreign media reports and other sources. Her book challenges assumptions about the nature of the conflict, and exposes the ways in which the 1971 war is still playing out in the region.

Product code: 455601, ISBN13: 9781849040495, 288 pages, paperback
Published by C Hurst & Co Publishers Ltd in 2011

SARMILA BOSE is Senior Research Fellow in the Politics of South Asia at the University of Oxford. She was a political journalist in India and combines academic and media work. She was educated at Bryn Mawr College and Harvard University.

Ms. Sharmila Bose in her paper entitled “Losing the Victims: Problems of Using Women as Weapons in Recounting the Bangladesh War” paints a picture of the Pakistani military as a disciplined force that spared women and children. She writes:

During my field research on several incidents in East Pakistan during 1971, Bangladeshi participants and eyewitnesses described battles, raids, massacres and executions, but told me that women were not harmed by the army in these events except by chance such as in crossfire. The pattern that emerged from these incidents was that the Pakistan army targeted adult males while sparing women and children.

She also quotes the passage from the Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report that I cited above to support her assertion that so many rapes could not have occurred. 20,000-34,000 could not have raped 200,000 to 400,000 women in the space of nine months.

She states in the introduction:

That rape occurred in East Pakistan in 1971 has never been in any doubt. The question is what was the true extent of rape, who were the victims and who the perpetrators and was there any systematic policy of rape by any party, as opposed to opportunistic sexual crimes in times of war.

To try to bolster her argument that the Pakistani forces in Bangladesh could not have raped so many women, she claims:

The number of West Pakistani armed forces personnel in East Pakistan was about 20,000 at the beginning of the conflict, rising to 34,000 by December. Another 11,000 men — civil police and non-combat personnel — also held arms.

For an army of 34,000 to rape on this scale in eight or nine months (while fighting insurgency, guerrilla war and an invasion by India), each would-be perpetrator would have had to commit rape at an incredible rate.

There are numerous reports out there now which negates the well established beliefs. The declassified US reports, Indian military officers account, Pakistan military officers account, General Niazi’s memoirs, Sharmila Bose, Hamoodurahman commission report.

This is a propaganda book. There were rapes. Pakistani troops and rajakars raped any Hindu women they managed to find. Don't support those atrocities in the name of nationalism. There were revenge attack on Biharis after 16th December. Yes. But they were quickly taken under protection of UN called Geneva camp.

maybe they envy Pakistan for having Turkish, Persian, Arab and other central Asian Genes I am not sure tho.

funny part of this rape story

pakistan army was not rapist before 1971
pakistani army is not rapist after 1971


it was turned on to be rapist just for 9 months and then suddenly rape switch was off

Geoffrey Davis (doctor) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Davis is best known for his work in performing late-term abortions following the mass rapes during the Bangladesh Liberation War. Davis worked in a victim relief programme in Bangladesh in the year following the liberation war at the request of the World Health Organization and International Planned Parenthood Federation.[5] In conjunction with Leonard Laufe, Davis set up in Dhaka "industrial scale procedures" of abortion in the year following the war. Between them they carried out 95 percent of terminations which had resulted from the mass rapes.[6] Davis also travelled for months in remote areas to carry out terminations.[7] Davis has estimated that up to 400,000 women and children had been raped by the Pakistani armed forces and their collaborators, the Al-Badr ("the moon") the Al-Shams ("the sun") and the Razakars.[3][8]

 

[Wolf]

This is a propaganda book. There were rapes. Pakistani troops and rajakars raped any Hindu women they managed to find. Don't support those atrocities in the name of nationalism. There were revenge attack on Biharis after 16th December. Yes. But they were quickly taken under protection of UN called Geneva camp.

Geoffrey Davis (doctor) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Davis is best known for his work in performing late-term abortions following the mass rapes during the Bangladesh Liberation War. Davis worked in a victim relief programme in Bangladesh in the year following the liberation war at the request of the World Health Organization and International Planned Parenthood Federation.[5] In conjunction with Leonard Laufe, Davis set up in Dhaka "industrial scale procedures" of abortion in the year following the war. Between them they carried out 95 percent of terminations which had resulted from the mass rapes.[6] Davis also travelled for months in remote areas to carry out terminations.[7] Davis has estimated that up to 400,000 women and children had been raped by the Pakistani armed forces and their collaborators, the Al-Badr ("the moon") the Al-Shams ("the sun") and the Razakars.[3][8]

I am not denying the atrocities committed for which we deeply apologize. I am asking about the extent of atrocities. The same has been mentioned by Sharmila Bose. The paper clip you have mentioned, we in Pakistan on our print and electronic media can give you countless samples regarding propaganda on other issues which at times tantamount to treason.

i will quote a reference in this regard as well, but there were also reports of indian agents wearing Pakistan Army uniforms committed rapes and obviously the victim will say what he saw. But what is the reality? In such case, truth has certainly been a casualty. I didn't quote Pakistani writers because that would have been biased. Sharmila Bose is an indian and neice of Subhash Chandar Bose who was President of indian national congress in 1938. So, her comments may not be take lightly. I also mentioned admission of ex raw officer. I will tell you more. I am in no case acquitting Pakistan Army and Pakistani nation of our mistakes. I am referring to other factors as well and extent of damage to discuss and find out that information, if any that had never been known.

Furthermore, Pakistan Army conducted operations in tribal areas and in Balochistan against foreign sponsored militias and there have been hardly any reports of rapes and genocide.

 

[kobiraaz]

I am not denying the atrocities committed for which we deeply apologize. I am asking about the extent of atrocities. The same has been mentioned by Sharmila Bose. The paper clip you have mentioned, we in Pakistan on our print and electronic media can give you countless samples regarding propaganda on other issues which at times tantamount to treason.

i will quote a reference in this regard as well, but there were also reports of indian agents wearing Pakistan Army uniforms committed rapes and obviously the victim will say what he saw. But what is the reality? In such case, truth has certainly been a casualty. I didn't quote Pakistani writers because that would have been biased. Sharmila Bose is an indian and neice of Subhash Chandar Bose who was President of indian national congress in 1938. So, her comments may not be take lightly. I also mentioned admission of ex raw officer. I will tell you more. I am in no case acquitting Pakistan Army and Pakistani nation of our mistakes. I am referring to other factors as well and extent of damage to discuss and find out that information, if any that had never been known.

Furthermore, Pakistan Army conducted operations in tribal areas and in Balochistan against foreign sponsored militias and there have been hardly any reports of rapes and genocide.

I do not believe in nationalism and a firm follower of Muslim Unity. Any attempt of denying these atrocities will only hinder our relations. Rape takes place in almost all war. One of ugly sides of war. In 1971 there was a general idea that the sacred Pakistan Army and its local allies were fighting a holy war against Hindus and their agents. Their women were justified under the pretext of shariah law . I posted a report from Mirror and Australian Doctor who in cold war times were your allies. I am not saying Bengalis were angels, Given Chance they would have raped Bihari women too just like they did in hilly area of chittagong during post 1971 insurgency.

here is a letter from Niazi Commander of East

 

[Homo Sapiens]

maybe they envy Pakistan for having Turkish, Persian, Arab and other central Asian Genes I am not sure tho.

What is the benefit of envying a Pakistani for having some amount of Turkish, Persian,Arab gene when we have hundreds of millions of actual Turks, Persian and Arab in this world? If we are so desperate for those highly valuable piece of gene,then wouldn't it be wise to migrate Turkey, Arab countries or Iran to mix up with their people or invite them in Bangladesh? But in reality, very few Bangladeshi in Turkey,Iran or larger arab countries? There are millions of Bangladeshi in gulf arab states, But they have gone there to earn a living not to acquire of those wonderful gene.

 

[ThaniOruvan]

The top post was of a Bangladeshi lady... A woman cheering and telling us that Pakistani kids deserved it and how happy she was !

Tell me about it.. I've seen and net Bangladeshis.. And to be honest I felt more comfortable with Sri larkans than them...

You could even find some Sri Lankans, Indians, Americans and even some Chinese who could do that.
Every country has their own share of psychopaths and animals. Can't help it.
All we should do is ignore them.

 

[Wolf]

I do not believe in nationalism and a firm follower of Muslim Unity. Any attempt of denying these atrocities will only hinder our relations. Rape takes place in almost all war. One of ugly sides of war. In 1971 there was a general idea that the sacred Pakistan Army and its local allies were fighting a holy war against Hindus and their agents. Their women were justified under the pretext of shariah law . I posted a report from Mirror and Australian Doctor who in cold war times were your allies. I am not saying Bengalis were angels, Given Chance they would have raped Bihari women too just like they did in hilly area of chittagong during post 1971 insurgency.

here is a letter from Niazi Commander of East

Ok. But the letter itself shows that the issued had been taken seriously at the highest level by giving a stern warning for indiscipline and that too back in April 1971 i.e. 8 months before the fall of Dhaka and i would say do you think the Commander eastern command letter and direction would not have been complied atleast to some extent? Regards.

Please listen to this 6 minutes and 29 seconds clip from ex KGB agent, Yuri Bezmenov. He also mentioned about events of 1971.

 

[livingdead]

If you're not Gujrati, try their Masala fish and Chicken Biryani and compare it with others. You will know the difference.



Don't give BS to others and yourself. It's a mentality of subcontinent people, if someone ask you about Pakistani's or Muslim you will say few bad things then you will say i have no problem with common people. Same things if you ask about Indians, will say Moun main ram ram bagal main churi, India trying to be big boss in SA and dictate others bla bla bla.

rubbish... I like the way bengalis cook.. if you dont like its your problem...
and yes, I know pakistanis look down upon bangladeshis.... I have neither bad or good things to say about pakistanis.. I just told my experience that i was helped.. who knows what most muslims actually think.. muh main allah panty main atum bum? (I got banned saying this last time.. lolz)..
you still have not changed your flag.. dont lie . you are just proving my point.

 

[bdslph]

simple Bangladesh is still at war with Pakistan and our mentality is of 1971

 

[Pulsar]

I saw a lot of Bangladeshis cheering Pakistani deaths.. Including Peshawar School Attacks..

I don't believe this! Any BDs out here for comments?

 

[Pakistani E]

In Pakistan, we have arab lovers, afghan lovers, indian lovers, Americans lovers, and now it seems bangladeshi lovers. But you have hard time finding Pakistanis who love other Pakistanis of different ethinc and religious groups. No wonder we are messed up and disunited, we love and give preferences to non Pakistanis. As for me, a Pakistani balouch/urdu speaker/ pushtun/sindhi is closer to me than an Indian punjabi or a bengali muslim, I don't care about Indian Punjabis or this ummah that only exists to exhort Pakistani goodwill. I care about Pakistanis, regardless of ethnicity or religion.

What happen in 1971 was a civil war, with atrocoties committed by both sides. Strange how people now start labelling Pakistani army rapists, while Pakistani army has fought numerous insurgencies within Pakistan but have never been accused of such acts in other areas. I am not absolving anyone of any criminal activities that were committed, but this mass hysteria of rapes and killing is exaggerated. It is a common concept among nationalist fervour to exaggerate tales to make the "other" force look unhumanely.

 

[Wolf]

Behind the Myth of 3 million

Behind the Myth of 3 million
ePublication
Written by Dr. M. Abdul Mu’min Chowdhury
Thursday, 01 February 1996 00:00


Many myths have been formed around the creation of Bangladesh. Among them is the fiction that the defeated Pakistan Army savagely killed three million people and raped three hundred thousand women during their less than nine months unsuccessful fight to preserve the integrity of a united Pakistan.

Recalling this 'heinous' Pakistani crime with suave moral indignation was made into a national ritual. Not only the beaten Pakistan Army but also the subverted Pakistan came to be portrayed as inherently evil and her dismemberment a triumph of civilized values over barbarism. No less a figure than the 'Father of the Nation' was made to consecrate the lore. With his stamp of authority behind it, his grateful children were implicitly compelled into faithfully repeating it. Not to accept it as 'the whole truth, nothing but the truth' with unquestioning faith was to fall short of being a 'Bengali patriot'. In those hallucinatory days of 'liberated' Bangladesh, the premium for such a terrible shortcoming was not merely dear, but potentially fatal. The 'permanent disappearance' of Zahir Raihan, the celebrated writer and film director, who showed the audacity of forming and heading 'The Buddhijibi Nidhan Tayithanusandhan Committee' (The Fact Finding Committee on the Killing of Intellectuals), in January 1972 [1] was a calculated warning to all doubting Bangladeshis. Understandably, the skeptics kept quiet and the scoundrels and the credulous joined the chorus masters in singing the saga of three million ‘martyrs’ and three hundred thousand 'heroines'.
Once the ‘Father of the Nation’ had fallen into disrepute and even came to be accused of treachery to the Bangladeshi nation’, some of the deified artefacts adorning the liberationist altar came to be seen as mendacious. But not this nor any other Pakistani crime; at least not officially. The successive masters of Bangladesh have shown no interest in exonerating Pakistan from any charges, however undeserved they might have been. Instead, by keeping them alive they skilfully played politics by veering on the sides of the accused and the accuser all at once. Alongside the dubious opportunism of the occupants of power, the dwindling band of the conscious keepers of the 'Bengali spirit of liberation' have continued their efforts to keep the myth alive through a more vociferous recital.

Yet, over the years, questioning voices were heard. These were not from the much maligned 'pro-Pakistanis' alone, but also from among the unimpeachable 'liberationists' and their 'Indian comrades', including the highest Indian most generals who gave Bangladesh its 'Cesarean birth'. Some of the latter have, of course, their own fiction to sell.

Curiously, those in Pakistan have remained indolent. There was no attempt to refute any of the vile accusations, including this very loathsome charge. Instead, there appeared to be a misplaced hope that apologetic smile to any and every charge would help in taking the heat out and once sobriety was restored and goodwill regenerated, the time would arrive for the truth to come out. Despite its many attractions, such a stand back posture has helped in perpetuating the falsehood and possibly retarding the restoration of the brotherly relationship between the peoples of Pakistan and Bangladesh. [2] For the intention of the mythmakers was to harbour hatred.

In order to create a healthy relationship between the two peoples it is essential to admit, and where possible to take measures to amend, all past mistakes committed by either people and their leaders. However, it is imperative that such steps should be taken on both sides with fidelity to truth and not on opportunism or contrived facts and unfounded myths.
.
Like many other myths of its kind, the fiction of three million dead and three hundred thousand women raped was not politically innocent; and it is time to recognise this both in Pakistan and in Bangladesh. Not to do so would be a disservice to truth and damaging to the interest of the people of both countries, especially the people of Bangladesh. This would be so, for any further credence to such a poisonous myth would perpetuate the psychic isolation and the splintered Muslim self-view of the people of Bangladesh in their geopolitically island-like setting. This would not serve their enlightened national self-interest, nor their independence. Instead, this would help those in and outside their country who wish to do away with their very existence as a Muslim nation.

BEHIND THE MYTH OF THREE MILLION is a re-examination of a sad chapter in the relationship of the people of Pakistan and Bangladesh and exposes its utterly contrived nature as well as the motive behind such inventiveness. I am one of those whose family were reported among the casualties of Pakistan Army's action in Dhaka on the night of 26 March 1971. Some of my personal friends within the 'liberationist' camp even had a condolence meeting for me in their Indian safe heaven! I am not alone in having been counted as dead. Countless other people could tell a similar story of their own. Some have even found their names engraved in the commemorative plaques solemnly dedicated in memory of the fallen heroes of the Bangladesh War. [3] Being one of many such' 'reincarnated' beings, I feel duty bound to help remove the myth which is of no service either to my fellow countrymen or to history. Yet, mindful of the requirement of objectivity I have chosen to confine myself to published works and recorded sources and have analysed them with the utmost fidelity to the truth. The ultimate judgement lies with the reader and it is my hope that they would find the pages that follow both interesting and informative.

In putting facts over fiction, I risk ruffling the feathers of those who for all manner of reasons have allowed themselves to be beguiled. Even if a few of them start considering the facts and begin rethinking their position, I shall consider my efforts worth-while. For those who in their blinkered disposition refuse to distinguish facts from fiction and continue to follow the pied pipers of the 'spirit of liberation' fame, who have - to my mind and I hope many would agree with me - no better function other than leading the Muslim Nation of Bangladesh towards its national suicide, I can only pray for divine guidance.

A friend has helped me with source materials and other friends have joined him in encouraging me for a quick completion of the work. All of them have done so, I am sure, out of friendship and not for credit. The friend who helped me with source materials particularly wanted to remain anonymous. In deference to his wish, I refrain from naming him and other friends. However, saliently and sincerely I acknowledge their debt and pray for their continued well-being.

February, 1996 (Dr. M. Abdul Mu’min Chowdhury)

NOTES AND REFERENCES
1. Zahir Raihan was a Marxist who was said to have been disillusioned while in Calcutta and did not believe that the 'intellectuals' found murdered in Dhaka on the eve of 16 December 1971- who included his elder brother Shahidullah Kaiser- could have been killed at the behest of the Pakistan Army as has been alleged. The rumour has it that he also had incriminatory photographs of questionable activities of the Awami League leaders in India. While gathering information about the killing he was kidnapped in Dhaka in broad day light and was never seen again. There is no doubt that he was killed by either those who were at risk of being exposed or those who did not like the truth behind the killing of the intellectuals to come out.
2. For a cogent argument on this point cf. Syed Sajjad Husain, The Wastes of Time: Reflections on the Decline and Fall of East Pakistan, Notun Safar Prokashani, 44 Purana Paltan, Dhaka -1000, 1995: 265-84
3. Jauhuri, Tirish Lakher Telesmat (The Riddle of Thirty Lakh), Asha Prokashan, 435 Elephant Road, Dhaka -1217,1994: 74

Source: Hypocrisy, Pure Lies of Bangladesh, Myth-busting the Bangladesh war of 1971

Dr. M. Abdul Mu’min Chowdhury, a Bengali nationalist who actively participated in the separatist cause, spoke out in 1996 to tell the true story of what went on during that war. He says the allegations against Pakistan were entirely cooked up and the actual death toll was much lower than the falsely fabricated 3 million figure. He cited an extensive range of sources to show that what the Pakistani army was carrying out in East Pakistan was a limited counter-insurgency, not at all a genocide.