What do Pakistanis have in common?

[muse]

Please lets not use wiki as any kind of source - what you have suggested is that all indians are the same ethnic stock?? right?? within that same ethnic stock are various seperate nationalities??

How is that different from china??

Now to your questions:

Any government, I don't particularly care, fauji or civilian, so long as it has a direction and a resolve for Pakistan -- Note I have repeated used "resolve" - flip flopping will only result in more injury to the nation because it robs it of credibility.

My last para suggests that you may wish to take notice that the conversation is about Pakistan and one, in particular, I, should like to you to take notice and comment about pakistan, there are threads enough about india -- if we are interested in triumphal self congratulation we may visit those threads.

You want you opinion to count and it does but should it not be about the subject?

 

[Flintlock]

Please lets not use wiki as any kind of source - what you have suggested is that all indians are the same ethnic stock?? right?? within that same ethnic stock are various seperate nationalities??

Now you are simply shying away from the facts. Wikipedia is generally accurate on basic things facts like these. You know it and I do too. I am sure you don't want me to waste my time searching CIA factbook or any other source.

How is that different from china??

Indians speak >30 major languages, and none of them are an absolute majority. Also, each of these communities regard themselves as distinct from other communities.

In China, most if not all Han Chinese speak the same language, and have a common identity.

Any government, I don't particularly care, fauji or civilian, so long as it has a direction and a resolve for Pakistan -- Note I have repeated used "resolve" - flip flopping will only result in more injury to the nation because it robs it of credibility.

Since you have no faith to lose in the civilian administration, it would have to be the army.
How can you be so sure that the army will lead the country in the right direction? Or are you just hoping that they will do what you think they will.

My last para suggests that you may wish to take notice that the conversation is about Pakistan and one, in particular, I, should like to you to take notice and comment about pakistan, there are threads enuogh about india -- if we are interested in triuphal sel congratulations we may visit theose threads.

I consider India and Pakistan to share a number of similarities, which is why I am comparing the two countries.

You want you opinion to count and it does but should it not be about the subject?

As far as I know, I am commenting about the subject, however one cannot help but digress sometimes in order to correct certain mistakes and prejudices in peoples' arguments.

 

[muse]

Flint

Apples and oranges share similarites - but they are not the same.


Yes, please o check your facts and please do not attempt to change the direction of the thread - it wil be the endo of the conversation with you.

the thread is about Pakistan. I insist.

 

[Flintlock]

Flint


Yes, please o check your facts and please do not attempt to change the direction of the thread - it wil be the endo of the conversation with you.

the thread is about Pakistan. I insist.

Fine by me, if you want to base your discussion on shaky foundations and questionable facts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fine by me, if you want to base your discussion on shaky foundations and questionable facts.

Flint,

I think his point is related to the the argument you made of "is it possible to rule Pakistan or India with central authority, with complete disregard for narrow demands, without large-scale violence and bloodshed."

Pakistan has similarities, but also dissimilarities with India, so it is valid that while studying Pakistan its specific dynamics and issues be analyzed.

 

[Logic note]

Logic

the example of bangladesh is misplaced - none of the provinces of Pakistan is suggesting that they as a "MAJORITY" is being disregarded in terms of culture or language..

There is big mistrust between states and ethinic groups in Pakistan . Bangladesh was the same issue

This entire troble is because of the permissive attitude of a governance that is bankrupt in terms of ideas with regard to citizenship, with a vision of what Pakistani is, what it's role in the world is, what justice is and how it is to be achieved in Pakistan.

Pakistani governments have been entirely too conservative in terms of activism to promote a vision of the state and nation that the peoples can hold on to.

Governance and Politics is reflection of its society ..its the people and their will which directly or indirectly chooses its style of governance and politician .
Hitler was product of its European society which firmly belived in imperialism because of their racial superiority over black and browns . Hitler and Churchill were same .. just that Hitler was too honest about his belief and took it to its extreme .

The entire battle is about a piece of the pie - royalties from dams and water for NWFP, Royalties from oil gas and transit for Palouchistan, Sindh ants a share of the coal in Thar -- Where the hell is Pakistan in all this?? What kind of citizen is this?? Is this even a citizen?? of where??

What happened to we are all PAKISTANI -- is it any wonder why pakistanis love the fauj? At least they remember they are Pakistanis first

As I said politicians and leader are choosen by the ideology picked by the society . these demands by small group is normal in every country . its the central authority or ideology which directs the nation

 

[muse]

And it will be good for you - you will have a chance to see or learn how different those dynamics are - how unique the situation in the country is.


Thus far we have the flwg - Zy with islam the answer to everything, Agnostic with give them what they want and the position I am taking which is neither will we accept Islam as anwer to anything but FAITH (Eman) and give the politicians who seek to tear at Pakistan as if with talon, nothing but retribution the law awards them.

I think a decision has been made that armed forces will not intervene - what will this mean? If trends continue as they are and all signs are that they will, Pakistan can forget being any kind of player or any kindof advcate for it's citizens -- the rump will limp along and soon will be in the trash can of history as they say.

But it need not be like this - and here is where Zy's argument comes into play -- when you will provide peole with nothing to cling to, nothing to build on other than post modern nihilism, leaving them a Yugoslavia as a example, then Zy's position is most certainly preferable -- and we are see this play out are we not?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But it need not be like this - and here is where Zy's argument comes into play -- when you will provide peole with nothing to cling to, nothing to build on other than post modern nihilism, leaving them a Yugoslavia as a example, then Zy's position is most certainly preferable -- and we are see this play out are we not?

Excellent point!

 

[roadrunner]

^^Politicizing religion is never a good thing (if that's what you're suggesting, I've not been keeping up with the thread).

It's better people just learn to live with each other, then be bonded by religion because this exclude the minority religions.

Even if there's no bond, except for nationality, so what?

 

[Logic note]

But it need not be like this - and here is where Zy's argument comes into play -- when you will provide peole with nothing to cling to, nothing to build on other than post modern nihilism, leaving them a Yugoslavia as a example, then Zy's position is most certainly preferable -- and we are see this play out are we not?

Who will Provide whom?
People have find someone from them self.
thats how leadership originates, from the People itself .

What happened in Yugoslavia and former USSR is that they couldnt find someone from themself , who can provide a balance between Power and Ethical leadership to guide the society during crisis ..

 

[roadrunner]

There is big mistrust between states and ethinic groups in Pakistan . Bangladesh was the same issue

I got as far as here with this post. There's no mistrust except in a figment of your imagination. That's not to say that people don't have their differences, some of them ethnically based. Like in how they will act.

Who will Provide whom?
People have find someone from them self.
thats how leadership originates, from the People itself .

What happened in Yugoslavia and former USSR is that they couldnt find someone from themself , who can provide a balance between Power and Ethical leadership to guide the society during crisis ..

Actually all Yugoslavian and Soviet leaders were from the people. Both the Soviets leaders and Yugos did well for decades.

 

[Logic note]

I got as far as here with this post. There's no mistrust except in a figment of your imagination. That's not to say that people don't have their differences, some of them ethnically based. Like in how they will act.



Actually all Yugoslavian and Soviet leaders were from the people. Both the Soviets leaders and Yugos did well for decades.

Ethnic Tensions Fuel Pakistan Violence - TIME

Pakistan's new ethnic war. - By Nicholas Schmidle - Slate Magazine

Strains Intensify in Pakistan's Ethnic Patchwork

 

[Logic note]

Actually all Yugoslavian and Soviet leaders were from the people. Both the Soviets leaders and Yugos did well for decades.

At the Time of Crisis the Leadership couldnt unite the nations

 

[roadrunner]

Ethnic Tensions Fuel Pakistan Violence - TIME

Pakistan's new ethnic war. - By Nicholas Schmidle - Slate Magazine

Strains Intensify in Pakistan's Ethnic Patchwork

I could quote you much more than that from Western press reporters suggesting Pakistan is full of religious extremists despite everyone voting secular, and that Pakistan is about to implode for the last 5 years. Funnily, none of it has proved to be true

 

[roadrunner]

At the Time of Crisis the Leadership couldnt unite the nations

The USSR did not have the means of holding itself together - nothing to do with the leadership. This affected Yugoslavia too. Yugoslavian ethnic nationalism became more popular in the same way that Mujib worked on Bangladesh.

The ethnicity of leadership wasn't so important.