Guynextdoor2
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As of today- sellout to Trump
What do Chinese think of Pakistan?
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Indus Pakistan
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Here is a Danish tourist in Northern Pakistan. Notice most of the hotels are quiter then a morgue on sunday.
Shaji Pappan
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China Loves Pakistan … but Most Chinese Don’t
China's pro-Pakistan state media blitz may be more about convincing its own people.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s first state visit to Pakistan, and the $46 billion infrastructure and energy deal announced between the two countries on April 20, have headlined Chinese state media websites for days. The trade deal is part of China’s ambitious “New Silk Road”strategy to create an economic corridor linking western China with South Asia and the Middle East, and it’s meant to further deepen a bilateral relationship that China is eager to promote. On April 20, state news agency Xinhua characterized the relationship as an “ironclad friendship.” Communist Party mouthpiece People’s Daily quoted people on the street in Pakistan exclaiming, “We would rather give up gold than abandon the China-Pakistan friendship,” with the news outlet stating that this was the “heartfelt wish” of the people there. Pakistan’s government, for its part, is no less effusive, with officials there previously having described its relationship with the East Asian giant as “sweeter than honey,” one rising “higher than the Himalayas.” China-Pakistan diplomatic relations have indeed been strong for decades. Pakistan was one of the earliest countries to establish official relations with the People’s Republic of China, in 1951. China is Pakistan’s largest trading partner and its top arms supplier, and in the past decade, the two neighbors have been swift to provide aid to each other after natural disasters.
But quantitative measures of grassroots sentiment between the two countries tell a different story. While Pakistanis view China in an overwhelmingly positive light — a July 2014 Pew Research Center survey found that 78 percent of respondents view China favorably —Chinese maintain a far less enthusiastic attitude toward their South Asian neighbor; only 30 percent of Chinese view Pakistan favorably. It’s not clear why Chinese popular opinion of Pakistan is so out of kilter with the two countries’ official relationship. Though most Chinese do acknowledge the close ties between the countries, some view Pakistan as violent, chaotic, and poorly governed. Pakistan shares a 372-mile border with Xinjiang, the northwestern Chinese region home to 10 million Uighurs, a largely Muslim Turkic-speaking minority, a region with sporadic outbreaks of violence between Uighurs and the majority Han population. In August 2011, officials in the region of Kashgar in southern Xinjiang claimed that Uighur militants had received training in Pakistan, and Chinese officials have pressured Pakistan to expel Uighur separatists who may be operating there.
To some in China, when imagining a violent, lawless, or run-down place, Pakistan is what first comes to mind. One young woman, upon returning to her college dorm room in the northern Chinese city of Dalian on an early spring day in 2013, discovered to her shock that the ceiling had caved in. “I thought I had been transported to Pakistan!” she posted on Weibo, a major social platform, along with a picture of the collapsed ceiling. When speculation abounded in April 2014 as to the fate of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, some were quick to link the plane’s disappearance to Pakistan. “I think it must be related to Islamic extremism,” one Weibo user wrote in a representative comment, adding “The airplane might already be in a place like Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Yemen.” And in China, the general impression of Pakistanis themselves is often little better. A 2013 discussion thread on question-and-answer site Zhihu asked, “What kind of country is Pakistan? Are there a lot of terrorist organizations?” As one user wrote “The poor people [there] are hooligans; they utter lewd expressions at women on the street.”
The recent flurry of close, floridly worded Chinese affirmations of friendship with Pakistan seem designed not just to cement the official relationship between the two countries, but perhaps also to bring public opinion into closer alignment with the official relationship.On April 21, People’s Daily posted on its Weibo account a playful explainer aimed to help readers “understand in one picture why the China-Pakistan friendship is strong like iron!” The colorful infographic presented key high points in the bilateral relationship (“China was the first country to offer relief during the 2010 flooding in Pakistan!”) and other fun facts demonstrating the closeness of the relationship (“Pakistan hardly even garrisons its borders with China!”).
The Daily’s post prompted many web users to share their positive impressions of China-Pakistan goodwill. One Weibo user in the western city of Chengdu wrote on April 21 that he had once run into a Pakistani user on a social media platform. “As soon as I told him I was Chinese, he became so friendly and excited,” wrote the user. The Pakistani user even gave the Chinese man his phone number, and invited him to visit if he ever came to Pakistan. “Only afterwards, when I did an online search, did I realize that the China-Pakistan friendship was so strong and resilient.” Other users recalled important moments in the history of China-Pakistan relations. “Chinese people haven’t forgotten that Pakistan is the country that donated all its tents to China after the Great Sichuan Earthquake,” wrote one Weibo user in a popular comment, referring to the deadly 2008 earthquake in China’s southwest, after which Pakistan donated $2 million worth of emergency aid, including 30,000 tents. In the aftermath of the bloody crackdown on Tiananmen protests in 1989, when China became an international pariah subject to human rights sanctions, Pakistani officials continued to meet with their Chinese counterparts regularly in a move that stood in stark contrast to Western nations at the time. That support has lived long in the Chinese consciousness, with one user marveling, “Now that is true brotherhood.”
Others clearly viewed the China-Pakistan relationship as a creature of geopolitical interest. “China and Pakistan have no border disputes and no historical issues,” wrote a pharmaceutical engineer in Beijing. “Together they face the challenge posed by India; they must have [a relationship of] iron.” A 19-year-old young man in Suzhou framed the relationship in less equal terms, writing of Pakistan, “Without China, India would destroy you.” Others questioned the effusions of friendship, with one user wondering if it would prove as lasting as the much-hailed “China-Soviet friendship” — which ended in the bitter Sino-Soviet split of 1960.
It’s clear that the strong relationship between the two countries is popular, despite the sometimes lackluster sentiment towards Pakistan itself. And it’s a bilateral relationship that isn’t likely to falter any time soon. Back in 2013, Xi described the China-Pakistan friendship as an “all-weather strategic partnership,” a phrase repeated frequently during Xi’s recent visit. As an April 21 Xinhua article asserted, with the ironclad friendship’s new agreement, “iron has become steel.”
Yiqin Fu and Shujie Leng contributed research.
China's pro-Pakistan state media blitz may be more about convincing its own people.
- Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s first state visit to Pakistan, and the $46 billion infrastructure and energy deal announced between the two countries on April 20, have headlined Chinese state media websites for days. The trade deal is part of China’s ambitious “New Silk Road”strategy to create an economic corridor linking western China with South Asia and the Middle East, and it’s meant to further deepen a bilateral relationship that China is eager to promote. On April 20, state news agency Xinhua characterized the relationship as an “ironclad friendship.” Communist Party mouthpiece People’s Daily quoted people on the street in Pakistan exclaiming, “We would rather give up gold than abandon the China-Pakistan friendship,” with the news outlet stating that this was the “heartfelt wish” of the people there. Pakistan’s government, for its part, is no less effusive, with officials there previously having described its relationship with the East Asian giant as “sweeter than honey,” one rising “higher than the Himalayas.” China-Pakistan diplomatic relations have indeed been strong for decades. Pakistan was one of the earliest countries to establish official relations with the People’s Republic of China, in 1951. China is Pakistan’s largest trading partner and its top arms supplier, and in the past decade, the two neighbors have been swift to provide aid to each other after natural disasters.
But quantitative measures of grassroots sentiment between the two countries tell a different story. While Pakistanis view China in an overwhelmingly positive light — a July 2014 Pew Research Center survey found that 78 percent of respondents view China favorably —Chinese maintain a far less enthusiastic attitude toward their South Asian neighbor; only 30 percent of Chinese view Pakistan favorably. It’s not clear why Chinese popular opinion of Pakistan is so out of kilter with the two countries’ official relationship. Though most Chinese do acknowledge the close ties between the countries, some view Pakistan as violent, chaotic, and poorly governed. Pakistan shares a 372-mile border with Xinjiang, the northwestern Chinese region home to 10 million Uighurs, a largely Muslim Turkic-speaking minority, a region with sporadic outbreaks of violence between Uighurs and the majority Han population. In August 2011, officials in the region of Kashgar in southern Xinjiang claimed that Uighur militants had received training in Pakistan, and Chinese officials have pressured Pakistan to expel Uighur separatists who may be operating there.
To some in China, when imagining a violent, lawless, or run-down place, Pakistan is what first comes to mind. One young woman, upon returning to her college dorm room in the northern Chinese city of Dalian on an early spring day in 2013, discovered to her shock that the ceiling had caved in. “I thought I had been transported to Pakistan!” she posted on Weibo, a major social platform, along with a picture of the collapsed ceiling. When speculation abounded in April 2014 as to the fate of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, some were quick to link the plane’s disappearance to Pakistan. “I think it must be related to Islamic extremism,” one Weibo user wrote in a representative comment, adding “The airplane might already be in a place like Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Yemen.” And in China, the general impression of Pakistanis themselves is often little better. A 2013 discussion thread on question-and-answer site Zhihu asked, “What kind of country is Pakistan? Are there a lot of terrorist organizations?” As one user wrote “The poor people [there] are hooligans; they utter lewd expressions at women on the street.”
The recent flurry of close, floridly worded Chinese affirmations of friendship with Pakistan seem designed not just to cement the official relationship between the two countries, but perhaps also to bring public opinion into closer alignment with the official relationship.On April 21, People’s Daily posted on its Weibo account a playful explainer aimed to help readers “understand in one picture why the China-Pakistan friendship is strong like iron!” The colorful infographic presented key high points in the bilateral relationship (“China was the first country to offer relief during the 2010 flooding in Pakistan!”) and other fun facts demonstrating the closeness of the relationship (“Pakistan hardly even garrisons its borders with China!”).
The Daily’s post prompted many web users to share their positive impressions of China-Pakistan goodwill. One Weibo user in the western city of Chengdu wrote on April 21 that he had once run into a Pakistani user on a social media platform. “As soon as I told him I was Chinese, he became so friendly and excited,” wrote the user. The Pakistani user even gave the Chinese man his phone number, and invited him to visit if he ever came to Pakistan. “Only afterwards, when I did an online search, did I realize that the China-Pakistan friendship was so strong and resilient.” Other users recalled important moments in the history of China-Pakistan relations. “Chinese people haven’t forgotten that Pakistan is the country that donated all its tents to China after the Great Sichuan Earthquake,” wrote one Weibo user in a popular comment, referring to the deadly 2008 earthquake in China’s southwest, after which Pakistan donated $2 million worth of emergency aid, including 30,000 tents. In the aftermath of the bloody crackdown on Tiananmen protests in 1989, when China became an international pariah subject to human rights sanctions, Pakistani officials continued to meet with their Chinese counterparts regularly in a move that stood in stark contrast to Western nations at the time. That support has lived long in the Chinese consciousness, with one user marveling, “Now that is true brotherhood.”
Others clearly viewed the China-Pakistan relationship as a creature of geopolitical interest. “China and Pakistan have no border disputes and no historical issues,” wrote a pharmaceutical engineer in Beijing. “Together they face the challenge posed by India; they must have [a relationship of] iron.” A 19-year-old young man in Suzhou framed the relationship in less equal terms, writing of Pakistan, “Without China, India would destroy you.” Others questioned the effusions of friendship, with one user wondering if it would prove as lasting as the much-hailed “China-Soviet friendship” — which ended in the bitter Sino-Soviet split of 1960.
It’s clear that the strong relationship between the two countries is popular, despite the sometimes lackluster sentiment towards Pakistan itself. And it’s a bilateral relationship that isn’t likely to falter any time soon. Back in 2013, Xi described the China-Pakistan friendship as an “all-weather strategic partnership,” a phrase repeated frequently during Xi’s recent visit. As an April 21 Xinhua article asserted, with the ironclad friendship’s new agreement, “iron has become steel.”
Yiqin Fu and Shujie Leng contributed research.
Indus Pakistan
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Don't be silly. I have a Pakistani friend who was brought up in Hong Kong and worked in many places in China and he moved to UK post 2000. I get lot of insights from him. Although they took him as a European because of his fair complexion.
And if your Polish you must be the most confused Pole as every Pole I met loves USA.
And I am gonna take a break from this thread. Nobody please take me as a China hater. I have huge expectations of CPEC and the Sino-Pak strategic partneship but I am being prudent. Paks have a habit of running away and dancing like those scenes you get in Bollywood movies the moment they hear 'Chin' mentioned. They did that once with America (my dads tells me back in 1960s US was love of our lives) then Arabs took over in 1970s and that continues although there are signs not of iminent divorce but certainly 'rocky' phase and of course the all weather all fair Chini/Pak brotherhood.
Pakistan needs to make sure she does not sell herself too short and that she extracts maximum out of that relationship. Don't please sell short ....
*And just a note on my friend. He never lied outright but he chose to never tell the Chinese his ethnic background. He did this because he felt he was treated better and got more out of them by making them think he is some type of European. That should make people think.
Indus Pakistan
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10/10
waz
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I remember being 19 years old and taking my usual commute to university. I sat down in the same seat every day, I'm a man of habits. During my journey, the train stopped at Finchly and a very well dressed Chinese man got on. He sat opposite me, and I looked up and said hello, and he replied with a smile and hello. There was no one else on the train. He took out some paperwork and began to work and from time to time would look up to see what I was reading. I had in my hand a copy of the Economist, and Pakistan was on the cover, this was the year of the Kargil war. His eye caught mine and he asked where my ancestry was from. I replied Pakistan and he gave me a huge smile.
He put down his paperwork and introduced himself as an employee from the Chinese UK diplomatic mission, showing his ID to prove his credtionals. I could only then describe what is the single best discussion I ever had regarding Pakistan/Chinese relations. The man oozed enthusiasm and sounded just like one of very own PDF posters. We talked about the special times the two countries have stood side by side and how important it was that the youth are educated about our ties, he emphasised this point strongly as I was young at the time. His stop came and he bid me farewell, leaving his card, making me promise that if I was ever in China I would look him up. His posting was coming to an end as well.
It was this chance meeting that got me reading into the close Iron ties the two have, and as a consequence posting on forums.
Now for my visit to China, I met thousands of Chinese, who crossed wealth, political, and social lines and virtually every one was immensely enthusiastic about the realtionship. I went during the year of the trade expo, and stood with a friend of mine who held a Pakistani flag. I can tell you now the line of Chinese wanting to take their picture with us was well over 100 and I have the pictures to prove it.This affection streched to being discounted in eating places, to warm welcomes at entertainment spots, to just being treated so well by hotel staff.
Now some may say "oh but your'e a third generation British Pakistani who speaks the Queen's english ," hence the reception. But native Pakistanis who have visited have reported the same.
With the large influx of young Chinese students to London, many of whom I have had the pleasure to educate, I was astonished at how many knew about how close China and Pakistan are, and this was something unheard of 10 years ago.
He put down his paperwork and introduced himself as an employee from the Chinese UK diplomatic mission, showing his ID to prove his credtionals. I could only then describe what is the single best discussion I ever had regarding Pakistan/Chinese relations. The man oozed enthusiasm and sounded just like one of very own PDF posters. We talked about the special times the two countries have stood side by side and how important it was that the youth are educated about our ties, he emphasised this point strongly as I was young at the time. His stop came and he bid me farewell, leaving his card, making me promise that if I was ever in China I would look him up. His posting was coming to an end as well.
It was this chance meeting that got me reading into the close Iron ties the two have, and as a consequence posting on forums.
Now for my visit to China, I met thousands of Chinese, who crossed wealth, political, and social lines and virtually every one was immensely enthusiastic about the realtionship. I went during the year of the trade expo, and stood with a friend of mine who held a Pakistani flag. I can tell you now the line of Chinese wanting to take their picture with us was well over 100 and I have the pictures to prove it.This affection streched to being discounted in eating places, to warm welcomes at entertainment spots, to just being treated so well by hotel staff.
Now some may say "oh but your'e a third generation British Pakistani who speaks the Queen's english ," hence the reception. But native Pakistanis who have visited have reported the same.
With the large influx of young Chinese students to London, many of whom I have had the pleasure to educate, I was astonished at how many knew about how close China and Pakistan are, and this was something unheard of 10 years ago.
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Hyde
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You have raised very good points but how many people go in such technical details?
My cousin was asking me to visit Egypt when the Muslim brotherhooď-Army tussle was at its peak and I told him to postpone it till next year.. He said the area where pyramids are located are safe and it is the capital facing most of the security problems but I asked him to refrain planning such visit until more suitable time and we rather decided to go elsewhere
End of the story... same is true about Pakistan. A tourist would love to visit Lahore but when he sees TTP fighting a war in aliens land of FATA, he hardly would know the difference between Tribal areas and rest of Pakistan as the blast shown on TV only states Pakistan
Hamza913
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I second this.
Kambojaric
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Let's be honest mate. We are coming out of - but still involved in a high intensity anti terror campaign. When a potential Chinese tourist reads news on Pakistan, he sees Peshawar school massacre, April attack Lahore etc. Still a lot of Chinese can be found in Pakistan now. Back in my childhood seeing a Chinese in Lahore was an oddity. Now its a normal thing. Give the security situation some years to improve and yes they will start coming here in more numbers as well. However the onus is on us as well to develop even a half decent tourist culture. India has launched a huge soft image campaign (incredible India) and has Bollywood to support this further. Our tourism minister less than a decade ago was this guy below, go figure. (Its maualana fazlur rahmans brother)
Indus Pakistan
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Yes, I agree there. There is huge potential here. It is for us to leverage what we have to build up a booming industry. Nobody else is going to do it for us.
More like 'terrorism minister' to scare away any tourists.
nang2
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Another reason for more Chinese tourists visiting India is because of culture history. Buddhism influence is China is fairly large and Buddhism started from India. That makes visiting India interesting. There is no such attraction from Pakistan. Some Muslim population in Xinjiang may find it interesting to visit Pakistan but that population is much smaller and less wealthier.Let's be honest mate. We are coming out of - but still involved in a high intensity anti terror campaign. When a potential Chinese tourist reads news on Pakistan, he sees Peshawar school massacre, April attack Lahore etc. Still a lot of Chinese can be found in Pakistan now. Back in my childhood seeing a Chinese in Lahore was an oddity. Now its a normal thing. Give the security situation some years to improve and yes they will start coming here in more numbers as well. However the onus is on us as well to develop even a half decent tourist culture. India has launched a huge soft image campaign (incredible India) and has Bollywood to support this further. Our tourism minister less than a decade ago was this guy below, go figure. (Its maualana fazlur rahmans brother)
But if Pakistan preserves the Buddhism or even Hinduism sites well and use them as tourist attractions, it may help both attracting more Chinese tourists and presenting a friendly face on religious tolerance.
Indus Pakistan
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China is fast heading to be the biggest source of tourists in the world. Also typical Chinese tourists tend to spend more money therefore leaving behind more 'tourist dollars'.
Given that Pakistan has such a close relationship with Pakistan we should be aiming at grabbing 10% of that market. That would mean over 1 million tourists per year. That would create lot of jobs in Pakistan and create a viable industry that also would help to reinforce our relationship with China.
I think Islamabad should be the hotspot for Chinese tourists given it's amenable environment. From their Taxila, Sirkap, KKH, wider Gandhara region with it's Buddhist sites and M2 link to Lahore with it's cultural sites would be ideal launching pad for this initiative.
Forget India my friend. As far as Chinese go - talk Buddhism > talk Pakistan. Buddhism was 'exported' from a region in Pakistan called Gandhara along what is now the Karakorum Highway to China. Refer to map below. You will notice capital of Pakistan - Islamabad at bottom right of the map. This is where Buddhism took off to to China. There are fantastic sties in this regin of Pakistan. India does not have anything like this. Only Nepal the homeland of Buddhism can match. The problem is most historical literature about this subject was written by English during British India days and they used the word 'India' because it coveed everything from Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal, modern India, Pakistan in one colony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara
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Taimoor Khan
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I feel we are too much concerned about what others think of us. There is a Korean saying "Arms bend inward". Look after your own.
Some folks are talking about forigen tourists coming into Pakistan. As if we are a tiny nation and we depend on forigeners to project our country. We are a 200 million with huge diaspora. How much we are projecting Pakistan to them? I can bet majority of those "blonde" and blue eyed Pakistanis of North, up in the mountains have perhaps never seen the black Pakistanis of Baluchistan costal belt and vice versa. This is how much "integrated" we are.
We need to build strong sense of nationalism among our people from Karachi to sost. Ditch that Arabanised history that says Pakistan came into being when Mohammad bin Qasim landed at Somiyani where clearly our history goes back to the world first civilization/empire here at the banks of River Indus. We need to start taking pride in our lands infact be arrogant about it. No one likes to talk and honour that son of soil who once stood against the evil empire and tyrant that was Alexander and defended the honour of these days lands just because he happened to be in times where our ancestors didn't have muslim names? Any other nation would have made monuments of him and immortalised him in pages of history.
Honour our people, take pride in them with the mentality of, our people, our lands and it's ancient history, our ways, our perceptions, all that, comes first. Without strong nationalism no one from outside will take notice of us and respect us.
Some folks are talking about forigen tourists coming into Pakistan. As if we are a tiny nation and we depend on forigeners to project our country. We are a 200 million with huge diaspora. How much we are projecting Pakistan to them? I can bet majority of those "blonde" and blue eyed Pakistanis of North, up in the mountains have perhaps never seen the black Pakistanis of Baluchistan costal belt and vice versa. This is how much "integrated" we are.
We need to build strong sense of nationalism among our people from Karachi to sost. Ditch that Arabanised history that says Pakistan came into being when Mohammad bin Qasim landed at Somiyani where clearly our history goes back to the world first civilization/empire here at the banks of River Indus. We need to start taking pride in our lands infact be arrogant about it. No one likes to talk and honour that son of soil who once stood against the evil empire and tyrant that was Alexander and defended the honour of these days lands just because he happened to be in times where our ancestors didn't have muslim names? Any other nation would have made monuments of him and immortalised him in pages of history.
Honour our people, take pride in them with the mentality of, our people, our lands and it's ancient history, our ways, our perceptions, all that, comes first. Without strong nationalism no one from outside will take notice of us and respect us.
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