What defines a Pakistani muslim?

[karan.1970]

Jana did not say anything destroyed Islam. If you're asking if they've destroyed their own faith in Islam, then my opinion however cannot validate or invalidate it, however I too feel this is more nautanki to fit in, rather than an actual belief in any faith. Islam is an extremely monotheistic religion, you'd be hard pressed to find a sane logical Muslim who would attend pujas and still hold his belief in the frequently mentioned 1st kalma of Islam.

By definition, you have to fit in (not in a party but community) to be its political leader. Thats why Sonia Gandhi started wearing a saree when she entered politics. Also at times it is to establish closeness, just like when Angelina Jolie wore a Salwar Kameez when visiting Pakistan.

Attending Pooja is not always participating in rituals. At times its also participating in festivities of friends. I have seen hundreds of my non Indian Muslim friends in the US, participating in Christmas celebrations. Is that because of repressive nature of USA or because they are not true muslims.. I would say neither, but I think you already know that..

Apart from that, the real reason Jana got my thanks for her simple explanation of the fact that not only does the Muslim have to fit in, she also had to re-attire herself. Sari clad, hindu looking Muslim for Muslim murdering BJP.

The first kalma spells out something like this for her, by any logical person "There's no deity worthy of worship other than Allah... And I will kill all others who believe in this". Hence it makes no sense.

Pretty non sensical drivel, the bold part that it.. Do you even know how many muslim members does BJP have..?? By your definition they are all non muslims..

btw, I had responded somewhere on this thread about events where Muslims kill Muslims in wars and terrorist attacks/army actions. Does that make them non muslims too??

 

[JamesBond]

I'm really lovin' the way some of my Indian friends are blasting through some stereotypes here.

 

[Spring Onion]

Mr. Bond,

IMO these are few of the salient features of a Pakistani Muslim.

2) Has aversion to anything Indian or of Indian origin

This has nothing to do being "Muslim" rather has to do with Indian State Terrorism against Pakistan.

3) Feels a sense of relief at any news of Indian Muslims being persecuted, since it provides with a false sense of justification of the failed 2 nation theory that has been bedrock of Pakistan's existence.

Wrong and the very last excuse the Indian Hindus try to cling to on forums its kind of a facepalm.


Any persecution of Indian Muslims bleeds our heart and remind us of the horrors if our founding leaders did not get a separate land for us. It also reminds us of our inability to help our Indian Muslim brothers.

4) Very high affinity for China and Chinese

Again it has nothing to do with being Pakistani Muslim rather it has to do with being a Pakistani having a high affinity for a friendly country whom we trust.

5) Feel the need and have a tendency to identify more with Arabian culture unlike Muslims in SE Asia

that is stupidest point which many people with Hindu roots come up with just to hide their lack of knowledge about Arab Culture and Muslim values.

saying Salam has nothing to with pagan Arab culture )) Islam is very young a faith and we found no evidence of Salam, Allah, and orders in pre-Islam , pagan Arab society.

I feel this is another ploy by those atheists and those non-practicing Muslims to justify their deviation from Islam

These are few I can think on top off my head right away, perhaps more features would come to light later.........

Please feel free to share your opinion as well.

Welcome again. This was NOT impressive

 

[JamesBond]

Any persecution of Indian Muslims bleeds our heart and remind us of the horrors if our founding leaders did not get a separate land for us. It also reminds us of our inability to help our Indian Muslim brothers.

Do they even want your help?


"Begaani Shaadi mein Abdullah Deewana"

 

[Frankenstein]

Wrong thread lady. Anyways, you should know what prompted me to create this thread.

Since you made a stupid thread, let me give you a simple reply

1. Is it to not drinking alcohol as is prohibited in Islam?

In that case the father of the Pakistani nation cannot be called a muslim.

Drinking is a sin not a shirk (unforgivable sin), if a person commits a sin he can always ask for forgiveness, and if he have good intentions (if he quits drinking forever) then Allah will forgive him, and if he dont ask for forgiveness for his sins, then that will be counted in his bad deeds,

And if anyone's bad deeds are more then his good deeds he will be sent to hell, untill his sins are washed away

2. Is it to not wear a sari which is considered by some members here as a 'hindu' dress?

In that case many Pakistani women (including formen PM Benazir Bhutto) wear or have worn sari.

For women, they need to cover there bodies from head to toes, they can only show themselves to there family, again its not a shirk(unforgivable sin),

3. Is it to not show flesh? Then what about many actresses of lollywood, many models etc. who indulge in such activities?

Showing your flesh, other then your hands, face and foot, is a sin, if they do such stuff they are commiting sins (and everyone will be punished according to there own sins not others, like we say in urdu "us ne apni kabar me jana ha, aur me ne apni" )

I'm soooo confused and it intrigues me when people say things about Indian muslims, I first want to know what defines a Pakistani Muslim?

now reply what jana asked in her post number 38

An Indian Muslims is Indian only when he/she is ready to Hindu norms. An Indian Muslim considered very Good and true Indian when he/she helps in preparation for dohsera and other Hindu festivals. is that true??

 

[Coltsfan]

This has nothing to do being "Muslim" rather has to do with Indian State Terrorism against Pakistan.






Wrong and the very last excuse the Indian Hindus try to cling to on forums its kind of a facepalm.


Any persecution of Indian Muslims bleeds our heart and remind us of the horrors if our founding leaders did not get a separate land for us. It also reminds us of our inability to help our Indian Muslim brothers.




Again it has nothing to do with being Pakistani Muslim rather it has to do with being a Pakistani having a high affinity for a friendly country whom we trust.





that is stupidest point which many people with Hindu roots come up with just to hide their lack of knowledge about Arab Culture and Muslim values.

saying Salam has nothing to with pagan Arab culture )) Islam is very young a faith and we found no evidence of Salam, Allah, and orders in pre-Islam , pagan Arab society.

I feel this is another ploy by those atheists and those non-practicing Muslims to justify their deviation from Islam






Welcome again. This was NOT impressive

Jane jee,

C'mon now, you were the inspiration for my post.

Sad to see you did not appreciate my description of you

 

[KS]

why dont you go back and read "Be an Indian first than an Muslim first" phrase in India.

Anything wrong in it ppl..? Cos I couldnt see whats wrong in that.

Be Indian First,then a Muslim,Hindu,Christian,Sikh,Atheist etc.

Just because you ppl look every damn thing through the narrow prism of religion doesnt mean somebody not following it is at fault.

Your nation was founded on the basis of religion,whereas India was founded on a notion of Indian-ness where ppl of various religion,language,ethinicity share proudly a primary identity of "Indian"....

 

[Coltsfan]

Anything wrong in it ppl..? Cos I couldnt see whats wrong in that.

Be Indian First,then a Muslim,Hindu,Christian,Sikh,Atheist etc.

Just because you ppl look every damn thing through the narrow prism of religion doesnt mean somebody not following it is at fault.

Your nation was founded on the basis of religion,whereas India was founded on a notion of Indian-ness where ppl of various religion,language,ethinicity share proudly a primary identity of "Indian"....

Apparently Pakistani Muslims are Muslims first and then Pakistani.

I think it all goes back to the concept of "Ummah"...... a Muslim diaspora.........

 

[gregarious]

IMO, Muslims or person from any region, in different parts of the world, will naturally blend into the habits of the place where they are residing. For e.g. Muslims in the west are pragmatic - they would see things as they are.

In India, with so many Muslim friends I have made during my college days and work place, I can say that Muslims here are practical & very religious. It’s the general tendency of majority of Indians to focus on Karma than other things. We would do things not because the Country needs it or the religion demands it, it’s just because we have been taught to be work centric and this applies to Indian Muslims too. This doesn’t make them any less Muslim, it’s the culture of the region.

IMO, Majority of the Muslims in Pakistan do want to do things only in the name of Islam - right from defining the shape of Beard to size of trousers and toe nails. Do you think arguing on this forum, abusing other religions and humans is any way Islamic. I guess not, so why take pleasure in rating all Muslims on a scale of 1-10. This doesn’t put you higher in the ranking. If you ask someone from middle east, who I guess still adhere to ancient Islamic principles, may not consider even Muslims from Pakistan to be better ones, though you would have already ranked him somewhere in the bottom of your list.

 

[Awesome]

By definition, you have to fit in (not in a party but community) to be its political leader. Thats why Sonia Gandhi started wearing a saree when she entered politics. Also at times it is to establish closeness, just like when Angelina Jolie wore a Salwar Kameez when visiting Pakistan.

If you're going to use the Jolie example, she wore a shalwar kameez 1) Because the regions she visited it would've been dangerous for her to go in a skirt.

2) Photo ops, with the PM.

Both explanations if used for the Indian politician strengthen my argument. 1) As a leader of the BJP she avoided the Indian hostility 2) She needed photo ops to pass off as a Hindu assimilated person.

Attending Pooja is not always participating in rituals. At times its also participating in festivities of friends. I have seen hundreds of my non Indian Muslim friends in the US, participating in Christmas celebrations. Is that because of repressive nature of USA or because they are not true muslims.. I would say neither, but I think you already know that..

It's one thing to play Holi, its another to sit in front of an idol and go ohmmmmmm. I think we are all accusing Shahrukh Khan of doing the latter.

Pretty non sensical drivel, the bold part that it.. Do you even know how many muslim members does BJP have..?? By your definition they are all non muslims..

My personal opinion was saught, and nowhere have I declared anyone non-Muslim, I called it illogical. Politicians often make their followers worship their illogical stances.

btw, I had responded somewhere on this thread about events where Muslims kill Muslims in wars and terrorist attacks/army actions. Does that make them non muslims too??

Again I don't subscribe to calling anyone Muslim or non-Muslim. Reasons behind those are obviously different, they are killing each other for political reasons not because they are Muslims.

Except terrorists groups that is and we all know how illogical their beliefs are. Didn't Gandhi recently equated BJP's parent organization as a terrorist group too?

The majority party youth leader in India agrees with me.

 

[notsuperstitious]

I suppose mini skirt wearing indian actresses become 'hindu' again when they start wearing sarees when they enter politics.

These hindus, they don't spare even hindus

An Indian Muslims is Indian only when he/she is ready to Hindu norms. An Indian Muslim considered very Good and true Indian when he/she helps in preparation for dohsera and other Hindu festivals. is that true??

Yes, they only get Indian passport when they show they have been celebrating hindu festivals. Kinda like in Pakistan where one becomes president only when one confirms he's a muslim AND believes in the finality of the prophet. If pakistan follows state apartheid, India must be too.

 

[Man of Thoughts]

Yes, they only get Indian passport when they show they have been celebrating hindu festivals. Kinda like in Pakistan where one becomes president only when one confirms he's a muslim AND believes in the finality of the prophet. If pakistan follows state apartheid, India must be too.

Tell me what percent of your population is Muslim.....
And then decide....

In Pakistan hardly 3%of its population is non-muslim and 97% is Muslim............

 

[gregarious]

...............

 

[karan.1970]

If you're going to use the Jolie example, she wore a shalwar kameez

1) Because the regions she visited it would've been dangerous for her to go in a skirt.

2) Photo ops, with the PM.

Both explanations if used for the Indian politician strengthen my argument. 1) As a leader of the BJP she avoided the Indian hostility 2) She needed photo ops to pass off as a Hindu assimilated person.

May be she confered with you on this but another POV would be to identify with the people she wanted votes from. Would have been funny if she attended public rallies asking for votes in a burqua. Dont you think? BTW, how many Pakistani lady politicians appear in public wearing a burqua? I asked this before but looks like no one has an answer

Also, what was her excuse..

It's one thing to play Holi, its another to sit in front of an idol and go ohmmmmmm. I think we are all accusing Shahrukh Khan of doing the latter.

Why does this needs an accusation?? I have persoanlly offered prayers in a mosque near my house in the US because the temple was too far away and the roads were snowed in and I simply wanted to pray. Does that make me a bad Hindu??

I do that at Fatehpur Sikri too when I go to Agra.. I mean, Indo Pak rivaly is fine, but this is just degrading it too much...

My personal opinion was saught, and nowhere have I declared anyone non-Muslim, I called it illogical. Politicians often make their followers worship their illogical stances.

Well that way Pakistan has been accused of genocide in Bangladesh and case is much more proven than the case of Gujrat riots against BJP (as a whole and not a faction). Does this mean its illogical for Bangladesh to have any positive relationship with Pakistan for all eternity to come?? or for any Bengali origin person to join Pakistani politics??

Again I don't subscribe to calling anyone Muslim or non-Muslim. Reasons behind those are obviously different, they are killing each other for political reasons not because they are Muslims.

There is either a conformation or an excuse. If one tries to find a reason, there can be a million. But at the end of it, the accusation is the same. Muslims killing muslims

Except terrorists groups that is and we all know how illogical their beliefs are. Didn't Gandhi recently equated BJP's parent organization as a terrorist group too?

The majority party youth leader in India agrees with me.

Rahul Gandhi: "I know only that both SIMI and the RSS are fanatical and hold fundamentalist views"

Asim Aquil : "Sari clad, hindu looking Muslim for Muslim murdering BJP."

I think I wouldnt call that Rahul Gandhi agreeing with you..

 

[notsuperstitious]

Tell me what percent of your population is Muslim.....
And then decide....

In Pakistan hardly 3%of its population is non-muslim and 97% is Muslim............

Yes, and that always calls for a policy of aparthied, otherwise the 3% will dominate the 97%