What comes first?Nation or religion?

[Pride]

What comes first?Nation or religion? its not a wise question to ask.
both are mutually important.. one cant say i want father and dont want mother and vice versa...

for me both are very much important. i want heart and brain to live and i cant live with heart alone or with brain alone..


why would one give up his religion for his nation?? what my religion has to do with nation as long as my religion didn't harm others physically?? religion is his/her personal freedom. nobody has the right to poke their nose in one's personal space..

Request you to read Bhagat Singh's history where he has to un-follow commandments of Khalsa for their love to nation As well as there are hundreds of spy stories where one has to go against his religion for their love to nation. I hope you got my point now.

 

[Skies]

Ideology is at first.

Ideology is the base.
Nation and Religion are beliefs.

Indians and Pakistanis have different ideologies, so they are separated by their nation and religion since 47.

Right?

 

[FlyingEagle]

Nation and Religion.........Both r two different things and important at the same time. But being a Pakistani "Nation" because We get seperated on the base of Islam (Religion), So the muslims can live their lives independently according to the teachings of Islam.

Regards,
FE
Hamaisha Kush Raho

 

[Pride]

Ideology is at first.

Ideology is the base.
Nation and Religion are beliefs.

Indians and Pakistanis have different ideologies, so they are separated by their nation and religion since 47.

Right?

Skies, I disagree that Ideology is first. According to defintion of Ideology:-
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a body of ideas that reflects the beliefs and interests of a nation, political system, etc. and underlies political action

Belief always come first as basis of Ideology, Once you start following your belief then you define your ideology on the same. There were group of people who believed that they can be opressed by other religion after Independence and hence partition. The same belief of insecurity came in 1971 and BD got separated from Pak.

 

[Pride]

Nation and Religion.........Both r two different things and important at the same time. But being a Pakistani "Nation" because We get seperated on the base of Islam (Relegion), So the muslims can live their lives independently according to the teachings of Islam.

Regards,
FE
Hamaisha Kush Raho

FE, Theoratically you are 100% right but if I ask you a practical question (No offence meant) say you are an ISI agent and an assignment given to you to work in Israel. Now before that you have to change your religion from Islam to Jews and that too by heart because there could be test for the same, then what would be your response??

 

[T-Faz]

For me, my nation comes first. All this talk of Islamic unity by some of our own is pure hogwash. This has been utilized by US to keep Muslim nations down and prevent the rise of nationalistic leaders.

Read this paragraph carefully and I hope some of you come to your senses.

Pakistan’s current constitution does not represent the thinking of its founders. Terms like ‘Islamic Ideology’ and ‘Nazaria-i-Pakistan’ were coined by the Jamaat-i-Islami whose rise was supported by the long standing official policy of the US to encourage religious extremism in the Muslim world to prevent the rise of anti-imperialist nationalist leaders. The Jaamat had close ties with Said Ramadan (de facto head of the Akhwanul Muslimeen or the Muslim Brotherhood and son-in-law of its founder Hassan al Banna) who worked with the CIA as it plotted against Gamal Abdul Nasser. The Jamaat’s chief Mian Tufail Muhammad’s nephew was Ziaul Haq, and both worked to further US interests in Pakistan and the region. The US supported and financed the so-called fundamentalist groups for decades [refer: The Devil’s Game by Robert Dreyfus] and continues to do so because these groups are considered a buffer against the potential threat of Russia and/or China.

A nation in denial – The Express Tribune

 

[storm seeker]

religeon comes first .....because being a muslim we believe that this life is nothing so why destroyimg life for a piece of land when we have got a great destination !!!! Being muslims , we should have different thought .
when u talk abt nation u should mean muslims otherwise its easy to destroy us creating provincialism ,racialism etc .only islam binds us in one single body!

 

[My-Analogous]

Nation for me , religion cannot gather people on one platform

Read again history of Islam. You will see that because of Islam Nation creates.

Please also note that it is teaching of our prophet that if you have to choose nation / tribe /family vs. Islam you always choose Islam and as a good Muslim i follow my Master (Prophet) command

 

[Jacobtheindoamerican]

Have you been blind to other Muslim members present here for quite some time now??

You seriously think Muslims in India think that? I am from Kerala dude Christians, Hindus, Muslims there live in peace for centuries. And so is most of the states.India had Muslims elected presidents and others in office. Even one being called "the peoples president".

As for religion or nations

Nation, Im falling off religion.

And if you believe Muslim unity or the Ummad type of thing, get real guys. Remember we are human before any thing and humans love to find a way to divide and conquer even in Islam. If this wasn't true. If this Ummad existed Egypt,UAE,Pakistan,Iraq,Saudi Arabia,etc,etc,etc would not buy or except NATO weapons, products,etc if they believe in Muslim unity.

Religion needs to be washed up

REMOVED
Watch what you post. You can debate decently without disrespecting others beliefs. Fanatical nationalism is just as bad as religious extremism, and some of you are exhibiting it.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

You seriously think Muslims in India think that? I am from Kerala dude Christians, Hindus, Muslims there live in peace for centuries. And so is most of the states.

As for religion or nations

Nation, Im falling off religion.

He meant it the other way around.

PS:remove those videos you are derailing the thread.

ontopic
Depends on the situation for me.

 

[nForce]

"Dedicated to the service of the nation".....Thats what I am.

By the way,I looked into this thread and found out that most of the Indians have chosen Nation over Religion.The percentage for the same may be a little low in case of other neighbouring countries.Any specific reasons???

 

[FlyingEagle]

FE, Theoratically you are 100% right but if I ask you a practical question (No offence meant) say you are an ISI agent and an assignment given to you to work in Israel. Now before that you have to change your religion from Islam to Jews and that too by heart because there could be test for the same, then what would be your response??

The most difficult thing in the world is to understand and read a woman heart , Its a piece of cake for her to make fool when we talk about woman heart.

No offence plz..............>If I got such type of job and my country and religion get benifited I'll go 4 that. And to become a Jew and then from heart is bcoz if once you get entered into the blessing of Allah Almighty (into Islam) then death even can't force you to accept something else. Yes you can go for a drama and all that. I hope the question is answered.

Regards,
FE
Hamaisha Kush Raho

 

[Pride]

The most difficult thing in the world is to understand and read a woman heart , Its a piece of cake for her to make fool when we talk about woman heart.

No offence plz..............>If I got such type of job and my country and religion get benifited I'll go 4 that. And to become a Jew and then from heart is bcoz if once you get entered into the blessing of Allah Almighty (into Islam) then death even can't force you to accept something else. Yes you can go for a drama and all that. I hope the question is answered.

Regards,
FE
Hamaisha Kush Raho

Yes I got your answer Ma'm.. There is only one logical point excluding religion thing.. rest is nothing interesting to discuss.. but just to tell you such scenarios exist in current world even in our respective countries..

 

[PAFAce]

For me, my nation comes first. All this talk of Islamic unity by some of our own is pure hogwash. This has been utilized by US to keep Muslim nations down and prevent the rise of nationalistic leaders.

Read this paragraph carefully and I hope some of you come to your senses.

My friend, if you separate religion from state, then the idea of Pakistan doesn't make sense. Without Islam, we are a nation without roots. Without Islam, there is nothing that unites us, we are merely a bunch of different ethnicities struggling to stay together.

You argue that the idea of Islamic unity "has been utilized by US to keep Muslim nations down and prevent the rise of nationalistic leaders". That is the exact opposite of reality. It is, in fact, ethnicity based nationalism that has been utilized to divide and conquer Muslims for all these years. We are letting our geographical location exceed in importance our root ideology, our reason for being. If that is the case then there is no reason for us not to rejoin India.

The raison d'être of Pakistan is a model Islamic state for the rest of the Muslim Ummah. I am glad to see that so many Pakistanis still see it this way.

Independence Day is close, and you will hear people talk about how "Pakistan is a gift from God". That is wrong, it's not a gift, it's an Amanat (a valuable asset on loan). When my ancestors fought for Pakistan's existence and gave their lives for it, they said "Pakistan ka matlab kia, La Ilaha IlAllah". That was a promise, a contract between the followers of Islam in the Indian subcontinent and Allah. We've now had this Amanat for 63 years, and are yet to pay for it. Pakistan is not an Islamic state as we had promised, it is a state of Muslims. We have, in other words, separated from our roots and, in the process, lost the base of our existence.

As a general rule, I don't get into religious debates due to my limited knowledge on the subject. However, it is very important to me to defend the Pakistan ideology. Today's Pakistan is not the same as the Pakistan ideology, and we must change that.

 

[Comet]

Nation or Religion... What's the difference?