What are the historic borders of Jammu & Kashmir?

[VCheng]

This seems like the correct place to ask a simple question that came to my mind:

What are the historic borders of Jammu & Kashmir as of 14 August, 1947?

 

[punit]

This seems like the correct place to ask a simple question that came to my mind:

What are the historic borders of Jammu & Kashmir?

that depends on which period of history !

 

[VCheng]

that depends on which period of history !

Of course, but specifically as of 14 August, 1947.

 

[punit]

Of course, but specifically as of 14 August, 1947.

some old pre independence map!

 

[VCheng]

some old pre independence map!

Is this the area recognized to be covered by the original UN Resolutions from that time?

 

[Albatross]

some old pre independence map!

how can it be a pre independence map when it is showing Pakistan?

 

[nForce]

some old pre independence map!

This can't be a pre independence map, or one from that time. Even if we ignore Pakistan, the state of Himachal Pradesh was created in 1971 as the 18th state of India. That's major giveaway.

 

[punit]

This can't be a pre independence map, or one from that time. Even if we ignore Pakistan, the state of Himachal Pradesh was created in 1971 as the 18th state of India. That's major giveaway.

oops! sorry my mistake.

 

[Maira La]

that depends on which period of history !

Which one is India? Avanti or their bed pal Assaka? or the Afghan Ghandhara? or the Burmese tribes further east? Who had the authority to determine the boundary of the state that would eventually become India? And where does "India" end without one?

 

[ShahidT]

I think it is safe to assume there were no territorial changes to the state of Kashmir from 1909 to 1947 whilst it was under suzerainty of Britain, almost a semi-protectorate.

These are maps from the Imperial Gazetteer 1907-09.

Source The Digital South Asia Library

List of gazetteer volumes with maps (I believe the last one shown is 1931)
The Digital South Asia Library-Imperial gazetteer of India

Why do you ask?

 

[VCheng]

I think it is safe to assume there were no territorial changes to the state of Kashmir from 1909 to 1947 whilst it was under suzerainty of Britain, almost a semi-protectorate.

Except that the British Empire gave up its claims over the trans-Himalayan watershed on behalf of the State of Kashmir in 1927. So your assumption is not correct.

 

[ShahidT]

Except that the British Empire gave up its claims over the trans-Himalayan watershed on behalf of the State of Kashmir in 1927. So your assumption is not correct.

Follow this link, it is the princely state's map in 1931, four years after the date in your assertion.
-- Imperial Gazetteer of India, v. 26, Atlas 1931 edition -- Digital South Asia Library

To my eye, the map looks almost the same in terms of borders as the one posted earlier of 1909. Could you be more specific on what the trans-himalayan watershed is exactly? Aksai chin or shaksgam valley/trans-karakorum tract (which were never under control of the raj, dogras or successor governments on the ground)?

 

[VCheng]

Follow this link, it is the princely state's map in 1931, four years after the date in your assertion.
-- Imperial Gazetteer of India, v. 26, Atlas 1931 edition -- Digital South Asia Library

To my eye, the map looks almost the same in terms of borders as the one posted earlier of 1909. Could you be more specific on what the trans-himalayan watershed is exactly? Aksai chin or shaksgam valley/trans-karakorum tract (which were never under control of the raj, dogras or successor governments on the ground)?

The maps were updated much later.

 

[midnightmasala]

It is very misleading to quote or refer old maps. Indian subcontinent ownership can be sliced and diced any way to suit any story. It's better we keep it at the start of independence and take it from there.

 

[ShahidT]

The maps were updated much later.

Okay my patience is worn searching for official maps around 1947, best I could find was from some news bureau, and they show it broadly similar to 1909 version in east/northeast of the state.

But you've probably answered your question. In fact they probably did not update it, period. Afterall these weren't their frontiers they were demarcating, they were in a hurry to leave, and leave behind a mess. I suspect if you go through the trouble of finding some original records from archives in britain, it will probably be similar to all of the above, or ambiguous at best.

Mind sharing what impact this academic point would have on dispute resolution and freedom of kashmiris from genocidal indian occupation?