What are China’s options?

[rustom]

north east india technically belongs to china.

Beijing technically , spiritually belongs to India

 

[nair]

There will not be any war.... Not worth the piece of land.....Now it is a battle of EGO.... Chinese have committed to this conflict by numerous warnings and threats....The only issue is upcoming party congress.... They can't show themselves as a weak..... So it is election time in China

 

[SingaporeGuy]

Beijing technically , spiritually belongs to India

possible in a Bollywood movie.

 

[rustom]

Beijing technically , spiritually belongs to India

So it should be given to Japan

possible in a Bollywood movie.

it is possible to give northern china to Japan as they are closer to Japan .

 

[Feng Leng]

Rhetoric and utter rhetoric.
What part of anything I said was a lie?

See that's the problem with you cheerleaders, you just cannot digest facts.

As for face saving.
During this whole fiasco only the Chinese politicians have felt the need to lie to their populace not ours if that is not a face saving attempt then you are in denial.

We are occupying the territory, IA is in an advantageous terrain, and China has had hardly the gall to do anything with its oh so superior army, if that isn't a matter of pride then I don't know what is.

Yeah you be sure to count all the chickens you are left with when IA does leave until then do keep your conjectures and non facts to yourself, honestly its a bore.

LOL that's what Nehru thought in 1962!

India has served the commies Shit Sandwiches.

No matter what happens from here on, this few weeks will be remembered as the point where countries stood up to China's bullying & showed the SCS countries how to deal with it.

In 1962, Nehru thought his forward policy was a stroke of genius and India was about to become shupapowa! Just a few months after the forward policy began, PLA counterattacked and annihilated India's elite, your grandfather included.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

 

[DarX]

Rhetoric and utter rhetoric.
What part of anything I said was a lie?

See that's the problem with you cheerleaders, you just cannot digest facts.

As for face saving.
During this whole fiasco only the Chinese politicians have felt the need to lie to their populace not ours if that is not a face saving attempt then you are in denial.

We are occupying the territory, IA is in an advantageous terrain, and China has had hardly the gall to do anything with its oh so superior army, if that isn't a matter of pride then I don't know what is.

Yeah you be sure to count all the chickens you are left with when IA does leave until then do keep your conjectures and non facts to yourself, honestly its a bore.

You lied when you boasted that the Doklam belongs to Bhutan. Twisting facts and rewriting history has become a national habit of Indians. It is at max a disputed territory and has been under Chinese administration since at least 1890 officially.

Actually the problem with you Day Dreamers is that you have started to believe in your own propaganda. India wants to stop the road construction in that area and so the Indian army is occupying the Doklam area. Even the Indian govt knows that they cannot stay over there indefinitely and so is begging for a simultaneous withdrawal.

China has no need to act right now, as India crossed the international border, and for negotiations to resume, status quo must be restored. That means the Indian army has to surrender and retreat, which is a tight slap on the face of India. All of that will happen and China has to do nothing. India has gifted China a massive political victory without China even lifting a finger. That is why they are prolonging it.

If you think the Chinese threats are evidence of desperation, you need to study International relations. China is doing that to highlight this Indian blunder, and India's silence is a clear indictment of its failure. But I'm sure Modi will repackage this to keep Indians fast asleep in the Matrix.

There there.
I can understand your anger. You have given to believe the might of your comrades, who unfortunately have displayed legendary cowardice.

Not your fault. Fault lies with the comrades.

Remember 1962?

China is watching and enjoying the show by giving warnings every other day?? If you can remove your colored glass then perhaps you will see through it...What would happen if India announces that she is backing down?? It would be the de-facto announcement that China is Asia's new boss...and what would happen if these empty warnings failed to impress us?? I will let you fill in the blanks here.....but will say only one thing...watching and enjoying is the last thing Chinese are doing right now....!!


So we are asking from a simultaneous withdrawal from a land which don't belong to us(and we have been open about it from day 1)...and that as per you is our face saving mechanism...and china is denying us that...by letting us sit on a land...that is not under us and nor claimed by us...Sure

Try to judge international politics from an independent perspective.

1. By issuing warnings, China highlights India marching across an international border and occupying its territory, which is classified as aggression.
2. By issuing warnings, China is building the case for its military response.
3. As the issue is prolonged, India finds it increasingly difficult to justify its occupation of a land it doesn't even claim.
4. China is creating a political theater which makes it impossible for India to return without loosing regional influence.
5. Make no mistake, India has to withdraw. China is not Nepal whom you can strong arm, and it is certainly not weak enough to see Doklam annexed by India without a fight.

I don't see how India will get out of this one. If you know something that is in India's favor, please share.

 

[deckingraj]

Try to judge international politics from an independent perspective.

1. By issuing warnings, China highlights India marching across an international border and occupying its territory, which is classified as aggression.
2. By issuing warnings, China is building the case for its military response.
3. As the issue is prolonged, India finds it increasingly difficult to justify its occupation of a land it doesn't even claim.
4. China is creating a political theater which makes it impossible for India to return without loosing regional influence.
5. Make no mistake, India has to withdraw. China is not Nepal whom you can strong arm, and it is certainly not weak enough to see Doklam annexed by India without a fight.

I don't see how India will get out of this one. If you know something that is in India's favor, please share.

I will certainly share this however would you be impartial and listen?? Anyways let me share my thoughts...

1. It is classified aggression as per who?? China?? Otherwise this is a disputed territory and a very well defined mechanism on how to address it. China has unilaterally tried to change the status quo and India is rightfully stopping them from that...Do you think international community will ignore this fact just because China is warning us?? As per latest agreement in 2012...no side will unilaterally change status quo...Just because Indian side is not crying like a baby every second day, it doesn't mean all the agreements/mechanism in place are hogwash now...
2. Unfortunately it has none....Military action is not even an option in this part...but only time will tell that...however do you need to issue warnings on daily basis for a military response?? Also what kind of standing one has, when they issue warnings by lying(Recent one denied by Bhutan about agreeing that land belongs to China)?
3. Please enlighten what kind of difficulty?? Getting bored from warnings or some tangible costs? Keep in mind, of all the LAC area this one suits us best...
4. Why are you missing the opposite?? This was the downside, with or without China's rhetoric...If India had failed to protect Bhutan from China's bullying then do you think Bhutan had waited for Chinese warnings before concluding that India can't be trusted any longer??? With due respect, what kind of naive argument is this? Now the flip side is that with so much rhetoric, china is in a corner as well...no??
5. If China is no Nepal then is India a Nepal? Sometimes i wonder why people have this colored vision? India and Pakistan context is pretty similar to China and India...If Pakistan is not a pushover for India then how come India is for China?? Forget about everything...but can you please explain this part??

Now what is it there for India? Withdrawal will lead to following things
a) Accepting that China is Asia's boss
b) Loosing regional influence for good
c) Giving free pass to China for coming close to the strategic chicken neck area

I think the above three are good enough to justify why India is doing what she is doing....no??

 

[ashok321]

What are China's options?



China ‘gifted’ 50 kilogram of Uranium to help Pakistan make nuclear bombs against India: Know about the dreaded chapter of history

Sikkim standoff: As China tries to push India into a war in Sikkim sector, we take a look at how Beijing helped Pakistan's nuclear programme.

According to the Post, Khan wrote that China provided 50 kilogram of bomb-grade uranium, which was enough for two atom bombs

Source>>


And they have invested 102 billion dollars in Pakistan/

And they will do more in the future.

So?

India can not stop Chinese imports into their own territory, so how can India control China in as much as what China wants to do against India as per its interests?

 

[DarX]

I will certainly share this however would you be impartial and listen?? Anyways let me share my thoughts...

1. It is classified aggression as per who?? China?? Otherwise this is a disputed territory and a very well defined mechanism on how to address it. China has unilaterally tried to change the status quo and India is rightfully stopping them from that...Do you think international community will ignore this fact just because China is warning us?? As per latest agreement in 2012...no side will unilaterally change status quo...Just because Indian side is not crying like a baby every second day, it doesn't mean all the agreements/mechanism in place are hogwash now...
2. Unfortunately it has none....Military action is not even an option in this part...but only time will tell that...however do you need to issue warnings on daily basis for a military response?? Also what kind of standing one has, when they issue warnings by lying(Recent one denied by Bhutan about agreeing that land belongs to China)?
3. Please enlighten what kind of difficulty?? Getting bored from warnings or some tangible costs? Keep in mind, of all the LAC area this one suits us best...
4. Why are you missing the opposite?? This was the downside, with or without China's rhetoric...If India had failed to protect Bhutan from China's bullying then do you think Bhutan had waited for Chinese warnings before concluding that India can't be trusted any longer??? With due respect, what kind of naive argument is this? Now the flip side is that with so much rhetoric, china is in a corner as well...no??
5. If China is no Nepal then is India a Nepal? Sometimes i wonder why people have this colored vision? India and Pakistan context is pretty similar to China and India...If Pakistan is not a pushover for India then how come India is for China?? Forget about everything...but can you please explain this part??

I don't need to be biased as I have no stake in this.

1. Whether it is disputed or not, the fact remains that the Doklam has been administered by the Chinese side since the 1890 agreement and so that is a part of the status quo. Until it is formally resolved, that is the line that has to be followed. So when India had marched across an international border, it entered another country and that is defined as aggression. The 2012 agreement DOES NOT define a mechanism on how to deal with such issues and you can read the two articles below.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/01/13/india-china-border-agreement-much-ado-about-nothing/

https://thewire.in/164433/china-disputes-indian-version-2012-understanding-border-tri-junction/

With regards to change of status quo, the Chinese side is only building a road over an existing dirt track, which can not be considered as serious a military provocation such as a bunker and so I'm not sure if the international community will take it as a serious affront. If India has not developed its infrastructure, that doesn't mean it can stop China from building its own roads in its own land. In any case, the actual case is that Doklam is disputed between China and Bhutan, and when India marches in to stop road construction it finds threatening, the legality of India's action becomes questionable when it neither owns the land nor claims it.

2. If you will read the history of Chinese military actions, you will see that it is standard practice for the Chinese to issue a very long list of warnings before it commits to military actions. During the Korean war, North Korea had run General McArthur out of Korea and conquered the entire peninsula. When the Americans came back, they drove North Koreans back and almost reached the Chinese border. The Chinese kept giving out increasingly shrill warnings, until they themselves crossed the border and attacked the American forces. From that point on, the Chinese forces rolled back the American forces up to the border that stands between North and South Korea today. The Chinese also followed the same pattern in 1962, when the Indian forces had set up a string of border posts with in the Chinese territory. They kept giving increasingly strong warnings, until they attacked and bulldozed the Indian army right into the Indian territory. So I see this pattern repeating today, and India would be do well for itself to heed these warnings.

3. Right now India wants China to stop the construction of the road and that is it. It neither wants to capture Doklam nor wants to achieve some other political victory. The best scenario for India would've been if the Chinese had agree to stop construction and this was amicably settled with smiling handshakes. But the problem for India is that it transgressed and marched into Chinese territory. Now China has not responded as it planned, but it is building it as a case of land grabbing. India finds it impossible to withdraw as that will leave it with egg on its face. The longer India stays there, the more it will be criticized for occupying an area of another country and that is the difficulty that I am talking about. China is gunning for a political victory.

4. I am sorry but you seem to have misinterpreted the whole thing. This issue was never about Bhutan. India was nervous that this road construction allowed China to quickly mobilize towards the Chicken Neck. Bhutan's claim is only an excuse. In fact, dragging Bhutan into this weakens India's position. Please read the following article which explains India's ill thought out treatment of its client states such as Bhutan and Nepal.

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bhutan-refused-china-offer-on-doklam-because-of-india-1733926

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/modis-interference-turning-nepal-towards-china-1726952

5. Of course India is no push over. No country of this size can ever be a push over. But there is always a method to the madness. By walking into Chinese territory, India built a trap and then jumped into it themselves. When I said that China is no push over, I pointed to the fact that if India thinks it can march into Chinese territory and dictate terms, that sounds comically short sighted to me.

Now what is it there for India? Withdrawal will lead to following things
a) Accepting that China is Asia's boss
b) Loosing regional influence for good
c) Giving free pass to China for coming close to the strategic chicken neck area

I think the above three are good enough to justify why India is doing what she is doing....no??

You are absolutely right to judge how a unilateral withdrawal will affect India's regional position. That is why China is prolonging this issue. But the question to ask is, who gifted China this magnificent political goldmine in the first place?

 

[deckingraj]

I don't need to be biased as I have no stake in this.

Then plz stop calling it a chinese territory....nor it is an Chinese administered area....that is the whole freaking problem with the area there....anyways the issue is not about whose control it is, or not....Even the bhutanese royal guard tried to dissuade them during the initial phase followed by demarche and press release....the issue is that tri-junction boundary b/w India/China/Bhutan will be settled by all the countries involved...this road and removing our old bunkers is direct violation of that understanding....

a) Road building is an issue not sure why you are making it as if something benign...there is a mechanism and agreements in place and it needs to be respected...period.
b) Fair enough....well then we need to wait and see if history repeats itself or not..
c) There is a huge problem in what you are suggesting...This is like we agree it is Chinese territory and request them to stop construction just to keep smiles intact....Also if you are not biased then stop using the term transgression...because that is not the case...it is a disputed territory and no side has any business to change status quo there....period...
d) Now you are contradicting yourself...Point 1 you were saying that road construction is not serious business and now you are saying that New Delhi feared that it would compromise chicken neck....As said many times...no one had any business changing the status quo there...When bhutan was not able to stop them...India intervened...
e) Biggest mistake you are making is calling it again and again that it is Chinese territory....I still believe that you are not biased however please walk the talk...

Also you are absolutely right...we have no interest in anything but changing the status quo...because we believe there is always a mechanism in place to address the issue...neither this means we are giving up on Bhutan or our own strategic interests...

You are absolutely right to judge how a unilateral withdrawal will affect India's regional position. That is why China is prolonging this issue. But the question to ask is, who gifted China this magnificent political goldmine in the first place?

Funny...China is prolonging the issue but i wonder why there is not one thought on how much China is in the loop?? What will happen if they fail to dislodge India from there?? Why are you making that it is India who risks loosing face?? Now look at the motivation....on one side it is just a road...on other side we have entire eastern states at stake...loss of face is true on both sides.....rest all is speculation..

 

[DarX]

Then plz stop calling it a chinese territory....nor it is an Chinese administered area....that is the whole freaking problem with the area there....anyways the issue is not about whose control it is, or not....Even the bhutanese royal guard tried to dissuade them during the initial phase followed by demarche and press release....the issue is that tri-junction boundary b/w India/China/Bhutan will be settled by all the countries involved...this road and removing our old bunkers is direct violation of that understanding....

a) Road building is an issue not sure why you are making it as if something benign...there is a mechanism and agreements in place and it needs to be respected...period.
b) Fair enough....well then we need to wait and see if history repeats itself or not..
c) There is a huge problem in what you are suggesting...This is like we agree it is Chinese territory and request them to stop construction just to keep smiles intact....Also if you are not biased then stop using the term transgression...because that is not the case...it is a disputed territory and no side has any business to change status quo there....period...
d) Now you are contradicting yourself...Point 1 you were saying that road construction is not serious business and now you are saying that New Delhi feared that it would compromise chicken neck....As said many times...no one had any business changing the status quo there...When bhutan was not able to stop them...India intervened...
e) Biggest mistake you are making is calling it again and again that it is Chinese territory....I still believe that you are not biased however please walk the talk...

It seems as if either you are unaware of the actual facts, or else you are intentionally ignoring them to satisfy your own ego. But that doesn't alter the actual facts. The Indian army did cross the border to stop the Chinese from building the road. There was a border. It has been that way since 1890. This is how all international media outlets, ranging from The Economist to The Washington Post describe it.

How can Doklam not be described as a Chinese territory? What should we label it then? Is a country justified to march in and occupy a territory if it is disputed between two other countries? How can you say that it is not an issue of who controls Doklam? India went to stop road construction thinking that was the issue, but the Chinese have turned it into an issue of control of Doklam. Now India first has to answer for that and only afterwards it can talk of the road construction. Game, set, match. These are the facts of the case up till now.

1. With reference to you assertion regarding the 2012 agreement, I just shared two articles from Indian sources which say that the agreement was a farce. It has no standing. What mechanism are you talking about? India can't just make up liberal interpretations to suit its logic. They are not dealing with Nepal. Please share articles backing up your claim on this.

2. Yes we can wait.

3. I am using the term Transgression because that is how international media is describing it. That is why Ajit Doval went to meet Xi Jinping and came back empty handed. That is why China is constantly sending out warnings but India doesn't have the guts to respond. That is why the Western powers, who are opponents of China and allies of India due to that fact, are silent on this matter.

4. I am not contradicting myself. I said that building a road is not a military provocation. Actually you contradicted yourself when you said that building this road and removing our bunkers is changing the status quo. How come your bunkers, which are military fortifications and were built only recently before they were removed, is not a provocation? In any case, building a road is not the same as building a bunker. In that sense, tomorrow India would start dictating how China should not build infrastructure through out its border because India has not built it and that also changes the status quo.

5. We are still repeating ourselves. The core proposal of India is that it will retreat from Doklam if the Chinese army also pulls back by 250 meters. In that way, it could say that it was successful in stopping construction and get a face saving exit. But in this proposal, even the Indian government tacitly accepts that China controls Doklam. That is why Ajit Doval went to China to achieve a resolution, but failed because China will not retreat from territory it has controlled. Who do you think will administer Doklam when India retreats? It was under China before, and do you think China will give up control this easily? I am not biased but I will not follow Indian propaganda as well. There are always two sides to each story.

 

[deckingraj]

It seems as if either you are unaware of the actual facts, or else you are intentionally ignoring them to satisfy your own ego. But that doesn't alter the actual facts. The Indian army did cross the border to stop the Chinese from building the road. There was a border. It has been that way since 1890. This is how all international media outlets, ranging from The Economist to The Washington Post describe it.

How can Doklam not be described as a Chinese territory? What should we label it then? Is a country justified to march in and occupy a territory if it is disputed between two other countries? How can you say that it is not an issue of who controls Doklam? India went to stop road construction thinking that was the issue, but the Chinese have turned it into an issue of control of Doklam. Now India first has to answer for that and only afterwards it can talk of the road construction. Game, set, match. These are the facts of the case up till now.

1. With reference to you assertion regarding the 2012 agreement, I just shared two articles from Indian sources which say that the agreement was a farce. It has no standing. What mechanism are you talking about? India can't just make up liberal interpretations to suit its logic. They are not dealing with Nepal. Please share articles backing up your claim on this.

2. Yes we can wait.

3. I am using the term Transgression because that is how international media is describing it. That is why Ajit Doval went to meet Xi Jinping and came back empty handed. That is why China is constantly sending out warnings but India doesn't have the guts to respond. That is why the Western powers, who are opponents of China and allies of India due to that fact, are silent on this matter.

4. I am not contradicting myself. I said that building a road is not a military provocation. Actually you contradicted yourself when you said that building this road and removing our bunkers is changing the status quo. How come your bunkers, which are military fortifications and were built only recently before they were removed, is not a provocation? In any case, building a road is not the same as building a bunker. In that sense, tomorrow India would start dictating how China should not build infrastructure through out its border because India has not built it and that also changes the status quo.

5. We are still repeating ourselves. The core proposal of India is that it will retreat from Doklam if the Chinese army also pulls back by 250 meters. In that way, it could say that it was successful in stopping construction and get a face saving exit. But in this proposal, even the Indian government tacitly accepts that China controls Doklam. That is why Ajit Doval went to China to achieve a resolution, but failed because China will not retreat from territory it has controlled. Who do you think will administer Doklam when India retreats? It was under China before, and do you think China will give up control this easily? I am not biased but I will not follow Indian propaganda as well. There are always two sides to each story.

I think you are mistaken on many counts and not listening to what i have been saying...for example, on one hand you say it is disputed territory b/w Bhutan and China and on the same very count you say it is chinese territory....first clear your stand on this...

Now let's talk about border - god knows on what basis you are saying border is settled there..now is this your ego?? I don't think so...so let me try one more time....there is only one certainty..which is - that land doesn't belong to India...and that's where certainty ends..so in short no sorry border is not settled....tri-junction is not sorted out yet and thus status quo can't change there unless and until all three parties agree..am i making myself clear here???...Bhutan and China can settle their own boundary dispute however when it comes to tri-junction all three parties need to be consulted..Now this chinese illegal activity happened as per their perception of tri-junction which Bhutan very rightly objected and when hegemonic chinese didn't listen we intervened on our Bhutanese friends request...b.w this 1890 theory has been debunked long back however since you want to not pay attention to it....i can share an article - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...derstanding-of-facts/articleshow/59886184.cms

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...border-claims-expert/articleshow/59500092.cms


Rest since we have started repeating ourselves, so unless and until you have something new/different to discuss i honestly don't have energy to carry on this conversation any longer..sorry about it....b/w if any chinese actions has to happen, it should happen before winter sets in...otherwise we all need to wait for next summers...so let's see..

 

[Storm Force]

Love the way Pakistanis keep telling Indians China has 5 times the fire power of india and india will be devasted

YET its INDIA tresspassimng in CHINEASE land

Which part of this is hard to understand

 

[Sam Vaish]

North east is your fathers land?

No No his sister land or may be jihadi land of pure