What and who are behind hate-ISI campaign ?

[Solomon2]

Then you know absolutely nothing about how competent and overwhelmed and out numbered they are....

Read the report; the ISI can't even tell when it's leaking information to the Taliban on purpose or not!

to call them 'Useless' is a fools choice.

Not "useless". Try "counterproductive". Unless you think that for some reason the ISI was fibbing to the Commission about its own incompetence and connections to the Taliban.

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Read the report; the ISI can't even tell when it's leaking information to the Taliban on purpose or not!

Not "useless". Try "counterproductive". Unless you think that for some reason the ISI was fibbing to the Commission about its own incompetence and connections to the Taliban.

Yeah I think they are doing this intentionally to send you back packing without causing WW3.....in any case your guys need to thank them every day for the air they breathe out there in Afghanistan....and for those Qatari talks too.....

 

[Solomon2]

ISI deserves to be hated...it should be banned....it is a Islamic Terrorist Organization

The "agencies" are too powerful, too unaccountable: they are blamed for what goes wrong whether they're behind it or not. But it's their own fault for both allowing themselves to be maneuvered into this situation by past leaders and to keep holding onto their unaccountable powers and privileges today. Zardari wanted to do it, but got 26/11 and the thread of war with India in return, so he gave up. Consequently, the next move for agencies' reform had better come from dissident employees of the agencies themselves. And it shouldn't be done quietly - where it can be easily squelched - but as publicly and noisily as possible.

 

[Jango]

Zardari wanted to do it, but got 26/11 and the thread of war with India in return, so he gave up.

Where'd you get this Bullcrap from??? I knew that you were a bit deluded, but to this extent!!! Gosh.

 

[Solomon2]

Where'd you get this Bullcrap from??? I knew that you were a bit deluded, but to this extent!!! Gosh.

Hello, don't you remember what Zardari was trying to do before 26/11? He was trying to bring the ISI under control. The LeT was let loose and suddenly there was the threat of war with India. That froze the entire reform initiative - there was no way to justify changing the system when India might attack at any moment.

I never read about it again, did you?

 

[Jango]

Hello, don't you remember what Zardari was trying to do before 26/11? He was trying to bring the ISI under control. The LeT was let loose and suddenly there was the threat of war with India. That froze the entire reform initiative - there was no way to justify changing the system when India might attack at any moment.

I never read about it again, did you?

There was no reform initiative at any time during Zardari's tenure. None at all. On the contrary, the previous government completely distanced itself from defence and military affairs. This was evidenced by the appointment of Ahmed Mukhtar as defence minister, non-seriousness on TTP and US attacks and many more.

The stance after the Salala attacks wasn't of the government, it was of the Army. Zardari was aloof of the matter and payed no attention to it, later he was going for peace with the US.

Similarly, the anti-terror policy, Zardari or the PPP had outsourced it to the Army alone. In Urdu the word we use for it is, mathay dal diya. Meaning handing over responsibility.

PPP distanced itself from all defence affairs and at no time wanted to bring the ISI or Army under it's control.

If you've got any credible proof for it, please bring it forward, because my source is as high as it gets and I am willing to bet my backside on it.

 

[Solomon2]

There was no reform initiative at any time during Zardari's tenure. None at all...If you've got any credible proof for it, please bring it forward -

I'll be charitable and assume you forgot: link

PTI | Nov 23, 2008, 04.19 PM IST

ISLAMABAD: The political wing of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency which allegedly used to spy on politicians and rig elections has been disbanded and it will now focus only on internal security issues.

A top unnamed ISI official was quoted by 'Dawn News' as saying that the agency had shifted its focus from domestic politics to internal security. The ISI would focus on the war against terrorism, which is the most serious security challenge facing Pakistan, the official said.

The ISI's political wing was part of a department that also dealt with counter-intelligence activities. The wing was managed by a brigadier, two colonels and other civil and military officials who would be absorbed in other departments of the ISI, the report said.

The ISI official also said the agency would no longer "spy" on politicians and their activities. The agency has completely disassociated itself from making or breaking political parties and alliances, the official said.

The ISI will also stop giving security clearance for politicians. The decision to wind up the agency's political wing has been conveyed to the political leadership, the official said.

Several former ISI officials who served in the agency during the regime of former President Pervez Musharraf have recently admitted in media interviews that the organisation played a key role in rigging elections in recent years.

The ISI also played a major role in forming the PML-Q party that supported Musharraf after he came to power through a military coup in 1999.

 

[Jango]

I'll be charitable and assume you forgot: link

PTI | Nov 23, 2008, 04.19 PM IST

ISLAMABAD: The political wing of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency which allegedly used to spy on politicians and rig elections has been disbanded and it will now focus only on internal security issues.

A top unnamed ISI official was quoted by 'Dawn News' as saying that the agency had shifted its focus from domestic politics to internal security. The ISI would focus on the war against terrorism, which is the most serious security challenge facing Pakistan, the official said.

The ISI's political wing was part of a department that also dealt with counter-intelligence activities. The wing was managed by a brigadier, two colonels and other civil and military officials who would be absorbed in other departments of the ISI, the report said.

The ISI official also said the agency would no longer "spy" on politicians and their activities. The agency has completely disassociated itself from making or breaking political parties and alliances, the official said.

The ISI will also stop giving security clearance for politicians. The decision to wind up the agency's political wing has been conveyed to the political leadership, the official said.

Several former ISI officials who served in the agency during the regime of former President Pervez Musharraf have recently admitted in media interviews that the organisation played a key role in rigging elections in recent years.

The ISI also played a major role in forming the PML-Q party that supported Musharraf after he came to power through a military coup in 1999.

And where does the article say that this was done by Zardari or on PPP's initiative?

When this happened, a thread was made on another forum as well. I commented there that, this was done by COAS as part of his policy to focus on the core issues against militancy and not politics.

This was a part of the many restructuring directives given out by Shuja Pasha and the COAS.

 

[Solomon2]

And where does the article say that this was done by Zardari or on PPP's initiative? When this happened, a thread was made on another forum as well. I commented there that, this was done by COAS as part of his policy to focus on the core issues against militancy and not politics.

Now you're contradicting yourself: earlier you claimed, "There was no reform initiative at any time during Zardari's tenure" whereas now you say there was (though Zardari doesn't get credit for it.)

For the moment, then, I'll stand by my hypothesis that 26/11 served to freeze - even reverse - ISI reforms.

 

[Jango]

Now you're contradicting yourself: earlier you claimed, "There was no reform initiative at any time during Zardari's tenure" whereas now you say there was (though Zardari doesn't get credit for it.)

I am not contradicting myself. Maybe there is a misunderstanding.

Look at my post by keeping in mind the context. In post 51 I meant there was no reform initiative ordered by the government (pPP or Zardari). The reform initiative I am talking about in post 53 is the one done by COAS on his own initiative, not on orders from PPP.

I stand by my statement that PPP completely distanced itself from military affairs and terror policy.

 

[Solomon2]

...In post 51 I meant there was no reform initiative ordered by the government (pPP or Zardari). The reform initiative I am talking about in post 53 is the one done by COAS on his own initiative, not on orders from PPP.

O.K., you're claiming what you wrote isn't what you meant. It happens but nevertheless casts suspicion on the honesty of a writer and his motives.

The reform initiative I am talking about in post 53 is the one done by COAS on his own initiative, not on orders from PPP.

Does your "high as it gets" authority concur that the dissolution of the political wing was delayed, reversed, or never happened due to rising tensions with India?

 

[Jango]

Does your "high as it gets" authority concur that the dissolution of the political wing was delayed, reversed, or never happened due to rising tensions with India?

All happened was that the political wing's functions were seized, it wasn't disbanded or anything like that, it was just a halt in their activities. I didn't follow it up later on...

Maybe it did get completely finished. It's been years since that happened...so I guess it was finished.

 

[muse]

Well, boys and gurlz -- Abbotabad Commission report is out -- What does it say about how good the ISI is at it's job? What does it say about how "esmart" the army has been?

You go ahead, make your excuses, blame of those damn awful (add oxymoron of choice), blame RAW, Mossad and CIA and who ever else -- soon you won't be able to even play ostrich.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

I have nothing to say about this. But I dont know how Osama was hiding there and nobody knows about him. It creates doubt, is not it ?

Well, boys and gurlz -- Abbotabad Commission report is out -- What does it say about how good the ISI is at it's job? What does it say about how "esmart" the army has been?

You go ahead, make your excuses, blame of those damn awful (add oxymoron of choice), blame RAW, Mossad and CIA and who ever else -- soon you won't be able to even play ostrich.

 

[muse]

It's not that the majority of Pakistanis are Islamists, the majority are Muslims who endeavor to be pious, but what should be clear is that the Pakistan Army is an Islamist Army, with a Jihad ethic -- If you examine the report you cannot but conclude, indeed the the report concludes that these failures are Pakistan Army's handling of that they imagine is Pakistan's security.

For Pakistan to be free of Islamism, the army must first undergo the process of detoxification.