Western media’s war on Pakistan

[S-2]

Pure dissemblance.

Where are the "directives"? I couldn't be more plain with my request. Afterall, it was YOU whom chose such a word.

I expect a case to be made for governmental collusion with MAJOR private media players...

...documented by a papertrail of "directives".

Uh huh.

 

[gambit]

But I think you will find that most educated Muslims admire the West for its contributions to science and knowledge in general, as well as democracy and social institutions.

And everything will be destroyed by those same educated muslims if the mullahs have their ways since science always debunk religions.

 

[Durran3]

@S2

How would you describe Fox News?

Fox and Rupert Murdoch were in Bed with the republicans and pushing what ever the republican agenda was with regards to the Iraq War. something you can't turn a blind eye to, the way fox reports has been well documented and almost everyone knows both in the media and academia how Fox has been manipulative and scandalous over the past 10 years.

 

[S-2]

Durran3, I'd ask you to stay true to the thread TITLE.

Read it again, please.

WESTERN media (that's one hell of a lot of FOX News networks) and WAR. Rather grandiose assertion from my view. Epic even.

Death By Chocolate has it right. You're newsworthy in a bad way. Don't like it? Get stable...and boring.

Playing to the fears and titillations of the local audience is commonplace for most national media, including Pakistan's. After all, they have to pay the bills. That explains the hay to be made by the Pakistani media's preoccupation with it's western counterparts as evidenced by this thread.

Afterall, hating America is a growth industry in muslim countries. That, of course, includes the media. Want to see circulation plummet? Be the lone paper that takes a pro-western, pro-American view of matters in Pakistan and watch how long you survive.

I see or read nothing that suggests our media (collectively-left, right, and center), THUS THE REST OF AMERICA, are out to necessarily getcha-i.e Pakistan or Islam.

We just report your news- fair and balanced.

 

[Durran3]

But I think you will find that most educated Muslims admire the West for its contributions to science and knowledge in general, as well as democracy and social institutions.

You would think that otherwise, unfortunately many don't, even the educated ones who have access to libraries, books and the information highway tend to completely ignore these things. What good is your education if your not going to put it to good use? Telling other people and explaining to them what exactly does the concept of democracy mean in the modern 21st century? Does it mean wearing scantily dressed clothes or does it mean basic human rights, freedom of choice, conscience, expression, Individual liberty and choosing a path that you deem fit without being harassed, oppressed or discriminated against based on your religion, color or creed.

If the educated don't speak out and allow immunity to criticism both in terms of culture and religion than what good is that democracy? The Right educational environment comes from a liberal philosophical approach. Something that almost all the Muslim countries lack. A Good educational environment comes from freedom of thought, the ability to freely express yourself, it comes from self criticism and debate, it comes from modernity and thinking about progressive change, it comes from individual rights and freedoms to pursue your goals in what the individual deems fit. Good education itself is a form of philosophical art. Just acknowledging something good and not putting in the effort to implement and tell others about it is basically education gone wasted. Worst if you let something like immunity to criticism continue even though you are well aware and understand that what you fundamentally stand for is not being honored

 

[r3alist]

Pure dissemblance.

Where are the "directives"? I couldn't be more plain with my request. Afterall, it was YOU whom chose such a word.

I expect a case to be made for governmental collusion with MAJOR private media players...

...documented by a papertrail of "directives".

Uh huh.

so basically you are incapable of even a tiny amount of lateral thinking.


what we had there is a us military co-ordinated propaganda event.


this was then tipped off or given to major news network who incorrectly conveyed the scene as some sort of defining historic organic event when it was the opposite.

therefore its clear, there was collusion between authorities (govt/military) and the media (bbc et al) to SPREAD LIES TO LEGITIMISE THE WAR.

the govt/military produced the event.

the media happily spread the news, with all the subsequent hyperbole and falsehoods.

i am sorry if i was unable to find a document with a govt. stamp saying "lie about the war", but carry on living in your bubble or come to the real world

 

[Skywalker]

The main challenge is to counter anti-Pakistan propaganda in Western media itself.

Since we don't own or staff Western media outlets, how do we promote our side of the story?

I partly agree with you bro, but first we need to clean this mess from inside or in otherwords change the mindset of our local media.

Our local media intentionall or unintentionally playing in the hands of the western media.

Please remember 60% of our population is illeterate and this where our own media is exploiting.

 

[muse]

Originally Posted by Developereo
The main challenge is to counter anti-Pakistan propaganda in Western media itself.

Since we don't own or staff Western media outlets, how do we promote our side of the story?

First mistake is that you want to counter it - by imagining that you are countering it, you give it credence - what you really want is to produce an alternative narrative that has enough elements of credence and is "nested" in a context that you know will have currency in you "audience set".

Western Media generally, like any other, has a herd mentality, they as a group share core ideas - if you look like you are failing, don't blame them for saying you are failing - on the other hand, if you can offer a credible narrative that you are succeeding, their message that you are failing will not need countering -- saave?

 

[Developereo]

"its very obvious that from the iraq war that there were government directives on the propaganda..."

Was it obvious?

Can you provide a link to a "directive"? From whom? To whom?

Fascinating. I know what the term "directives" conjures in my conspiratorial mind. How about yours?

I await your sourced reply.

 

[Developereo]

First mistake is that you want to counter it - by imagining that you are countering it, you give it credence - what you really want is to produce an alternative narrative that has enough elements of credence and is "nested" in a context that you know will have currency in you "audience set".

Western Media generally, like any other, has a herd mentality, they as a group share core ideas - if you look like you are failing, don't blame them for saying you are failing - on the other hand, if you can offer a credible narrative that you are succeeding, their message that you are failing will not need countering -- saave?

That is what I meant by 'countering'.
I did not mean to imply that we should 'answer' their critcisms on a point-by-point basis, but that we should offer positive stories about Pakistan to balance out the negative narrative.

 

[S-2]

WESTERN media and WAR, gentlemen. Big words.

You make the claim yet haven't made any case.

Is this a "feel good" exercise to commiserate your "woe is me" approach to thinking?

 

[r3alist]

WESTERN media and WAR, gentlemen. Big words.

You make the claim yet haven't made any case.

Is this a "feel good" exercise to commiserate your "woe is me" approach to thinking?

lol, what a peculiar person you are, no wonder americans have this reputation of being fat and slow, they(you) cannot even think laterally at all.

your only response is a disengenuous one of pedantry.

also, from what i can tell it seems you have swallowed too much samuen huntington/bernard lewis with your whole "muslims have an inferiority complex" slant - which seems your common response to everything.


come on buddy, be different, transcend your all american persona to something more productive

 

[S-2]

"...with your whole 'muslims have an inferiority complex' slant"

Ah...gross stereotypes, eh? And yet within the same post-

"no wonder americans have this reputation of being fat and slow, they(you) cannot even think laterally at all."

Is that the product of your more open and nuanced perspectives?

"...think laterally..."?

Side-stepping core issues with dissemblance and superficial, topical perspectives neither endorsed nor substantiated by concrete evidence?

I repeat- the title of this thread includes WESTERN and WAR. No case has been made to that effect. None. There's no all-pervasive drumbeat. No transnational media cooperation to further a particular message of anti-muslim, anti-Islamic thinking. No secret manifestos of concurrence.

Nice tack, though. Perhaps by going on the offensive against us poor, helpless, all-too-politically-correct westerners you cause us to react to your outlandish accusations.

Fair to say that America has been subjected to some rather consistently vile and venomous slants by news organizations in the middle east and elsewhere.

Naturally, we are a target given our global engagements. Everybody has a view.

So too South Asia and, in particular, Pakistan given that the prevailing issues of the day take on a global import. Everybody has a view.

Let's just get over this little islamo-fascist roadbump together and, I promise, we'll get back to ignoring you just as fast as we can.

"come on buddy, be different, transcend your all american persona to something more productive"

Coming from you?

 

[r3alist]

"...with your whole 'muslims have an inferiority complex' slant"

Ah...gross stereotypes, eh? And yet within the same post-

"no wonder americans have this reputation of being fat and slow, they(you) cannot even think laterally at all."

Is that the product of your more open and nuanced perspectives?

"...think laterally..."?

Side-stepping core issues with dissemblance and superficial, topical perspectives neither endorsed nor substantiated by concrete evidence?

I repeat- the title of this thread includes WESTERN and WAR. No case has been made to that effect. None. There's no all-pervasive drumbeat. No transnational media cooperation to further a particular message of anti-muslim, anti-Islamic thinking. No secret manifestos of concurrence.

Nice tack, though. Perhaps by going on the offensive against us poor, helpless, all-too-politically-correct westerners you cause us to react to your outlandish accusations.

Fair to say that America has been subjected to some rather consistently vile and venomous slants by news organizations in the middle east and elsewhere.

Naturally, we are a target given our global engagements. Everybody has a view.

So too South Asia and, in particular, Pakistan given that the prevailing issues of the day take on a global import. Everybody has a view.

Let's just get over this little islamo-fascist roadbump together and, I promise, we'll get back to ignoring you just as fast as we can.


"come on buddy, be different, transcend your all american persona to something more productive"

Coming from you?

i was actually being tongue in cheek, however i realise how anything that is even slightly nuanced can be a challenge for you, as you just demonstrated, so thanks, lets move on.



now whats your contention?


its basically based upon the word "western", which you have taken to its logical hyper extension as including ALL OF THE WEST and ALL OF THE MEDIA - thus you think anything put to you will be flimsy since they do not fulfill the criteria of such lofty definitions?

right?


can i assume this or can you correct me before i move on??

 

[advaita]

Agree ONE THOUSAND PERCENT with this author.

It is encouraging to see that influential people in Pakistan are recognizing this very potent threat to Pakistan's very survival and offering solutions.

No amount of nuclear weapons and cruise missiles are going to be useful against this threat. We have to counter this threat in the media itself.

On a very basic level, the chain of control goes
media => public opinion => elections => politicians

from there,
politicians => military commanders => invasion

and/or
politicians => economic and cultural isolation

Too long a circuit. Ever heard of energy wastage at every conversion.

Try education+economy=peace.

But of course.