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We Will Repel You - Chines DF-21 Ballistic missile

sonicboom

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We Will Repel You

March 30, 2010: After years of rumors and speculation in the media, the U.S. Department of Defense has officially announced that it is aware of Chinese efforts to build a ballistic missile system that can hit warships, particularly carriers, at sea. The Pentagon says it is prepared for such a weapon, with anti-missile systems deployed in the Pacific (on land and at sea) to deal with such a weapon. The U.S. is apparently expecting China to test this new weapon soon, and is deploying spy ships, aircraft and satellites, to capture as much data as possible.

The general idea is that the Chinese DF-21 ballistic missile has been equipped with a high-explosive warhead and a guidance system that can find and hit a aircraft carrier at sea. The DF-21 has a range of 1,800 kilometers and normally hauls a 300 kiloton nuclear warhead. It's a two stage, 15 ton, solid fuel rocket that could instead carry a half ton penetrating, high-explosive warhead, along with the special guidance system (a radar and image recognition system).

It is believed that the Chinese have reverse engineered, reinvented or stolen the 1970s seeker technology that went into the U.S. Pershing ballistic missile. This 7.5 ton U.S. Army missile also had an 1,800 kilometer range, and could put its nuclear warhead within 30 meters of its aim point. This was possible because the guidance system had its own radar. This kind of accuracy made the Russians very uncomfortable, as it made their command bunkers vulnerable. The Russians eventually agreed to a lot of nuclear and missile disarmament deals in order to get the Pershings decommissioned in the 1980s.

The Chinese have long been rumored to have a system like this, but there have been no tests. If the Chinese do succeed in creating a "carrier killer" version of the DF-21, the U.S. Navy can modify its Aegis anti-missile system to protect carriers against such attacks. This sort of work is apparently already underway. There are also electronic warfare options, to blind the DF-21 radar. Another problem the Chinese will have is getting a general idea of where the target carrier is before they launch the DF-21. This is not impossible, but can be difficult. The Chinese have apparently been working on this as well.

For the last three years, at least, China has been developing an over-the-horizon (OTH) radar that can spot large ships (like American aircraft carriers) as far as 3,000 kilometers away, and use this information to guide ballistic missiles to the area,. Such radars have long been used to detect ballistic missile launches, and approaching heavy bombers. Some OTH radars have been modified to take advantage of the flat surface of an ocean, to pick up large objects, like ships. Cheaper and more powerful computers enable such OTH radars to more accurately identify ships thousands of kilometers away. OHT radars are large and fragile beasts, easily disabled or destroyed by missiles or smart bombs.


Air Defense: We Will Repel You
 
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Assume the DF-21 is deployed...

Over-the-horizon radars operate in the meters length bands -- HF/UHF/VHF. The antennas are massive, in the meters diameter range. They are fixed. Because of the freqs/bands employed, they have very poor target resolutions, for surface and airborne targets. USAF B-1s and B-2s will conduct dual attacks on these stations, removing the DF-21's long range eyes.
 
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Assume the DF-21 is deployed...

Over-the-horizon radars operate in the meters length bands -- HF/UHF/VHF. The antennas are massive, in the meters diameter range. They are fixed. Because of the freqs/bands employed, they have very poor target resolutions, for surface and airborne targets.USAF B-1s and B-2swill conduct dual attacks on these stations, removing the DF-21's long range eyes.

Yes and China will be sleeping at that time?
You have an edge regarding B2's range and altitude but it will not last forever.
Protective measures and counter strategies are always looked upon.
 
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Let me guess...You think we prepare and train our forces upon the condition that our enemies are asleep?


Long enough will be just fine.


Such as?

Let me guess...You think we prepare and train our forces upon the condition that our enemies are asleep?

Smart questions do not deserve stupid answers. Try to guess again and come up with a smart answer.

Long enough will be just fine.
For the time being. When you will think to attack China (if you do) than the scenario will be different.

Such as?
Look at the rebuttal strategies you think of when replying to the posts ..Look at your country's alternative strategies and than you will find the answer of Chinese alternative strategies..

:)
 
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Let me guess...You think we prepare and train our forces upon the condition that our enemies are asleep?

Smart questions do not deserve stupid answers. Try to guess again and come up with a smart answer.
:lol:

Buddy...China's defenses can be on full alert and it still would not matter, or would not matter much against a B-1/B-2 attack.

Long enough will be just fine.
For the time being. When you will think to attack China (if you do) than the scenario will be different.
Different? Is that all? What was it you just said about 'smart answer'? Try giving the readership one.
 
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:lol:

Buddy...China's defenses can be on full alert and it still would not matter, or would not matter much against a B-1/B-2 attack.


Different? Is that all? What was it you just said about 'smart answer'? Try giving the readership one.



A guy who is military professional DOES NOT even know or pretend to hide that alternative strategies are not looked upon when facing wars.
:lol:
This is an obvious answer for us that alternative strategies are looked upon..Now God has blessed me that I am not Obama's son..So I don't know about the exact alternative strategies but one thing is certain i.e. war is not fought in one direction
Having a good discussion leads somewhere but posing a question for which you have an idea for makes a discussion stupid..
Alternative strategies are always looked upon.
Now either you agree with me or not..if you don't than there is a proof on this forum...
Some of the strategies include construction of underground tunnels to have an alternative if main land (China) is under attack...


Bro you have to understand (I can't emphasize more) that China is progressing and within a decade or two things will be a lot different if the U.S. still exist..Lets see what happens..who will counter what..time will tell
 
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I hope China deploys more thermo nuclear warheads to ensure that if US nukes China, not a single square feet area of US land would be spared from radiation. At least 1500 active nuclear warheads should be made available.

The policy should be like, if you kill us, we will take you with us. There will not be left any bamboo, so will not be any bamboo flute.
 
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A guy who is military professional DOES NOT even know or pretend to hide that alternative strategies are not looked upon when facing wars.
Of course I do. Am asking you what 'alternative strategies' can China bring to bear?

This is an obvious answer for us that alternative strategies are looked upon..Now God has blessed me that I am not Obama's son..So I don't know about the exact alternative strategies but one thing is certain i.e. war is not fought in one direction
Having a good discussion leads somewhere but posing a question for which you have an idea for makes a discussion stupid..
Alternative strategies are always looked upon.
Now either you agree with me or not..if you don't than there is a proof on this forum...
Some of the strategies include construction of underground tunnels to have an alternative if main land (China) is under attack...


Bro you have to understand (I can't emphasize more) that China is progressing and within a decade or two things will be a lot different if the U.S. still exist..Lets see what happens..who will counter what..time will tell
Right...So you have no clue of what they are, you have no military experience, so all you can do is spout vague generalities about 'alternative strategies'.

Let us try again, shall we...???

Over-the-horizon radars are very large antenna assemblies. Like this one...

1554b0564e410474f62994d0a335e14b.jpg


These large stations are obviously not very mobile.

PLA Air Defence Radars / Excerpted from "Chinese Radars"
OTH-B radars are bistatic systems, this is where the transmitter and receiver use different antennas at widely separated locations to achieve detection results. The importance of these systems is that they are not limited by line of sight, as are most radars, but they do require a very significant amount of processing power. This was the limiting factor with early Chinese OTH systems, but may no longer be the case.

Because of the very long wavelengths involved, to be efficient, the antenna arrays are extremely large as indicated in the picture above.
Against a B-1/B-2 combine attack, if either type of stations, transmitter or receiver, is disabled, there will be coverage gaps. That is weakness of a bi-static configuration.

Surface Wave-OTH (SW-OTH) radars are used to detect surface ship and low air activity beyond the visible horizon, out to about 300km, although the absolute range is dependent upon atmospheric conditions, system power and the time of day.
The time of day is significant when it comes to ionospheric deflections. For example...

AM broadcasting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
During the day, AM signals travel by groundwave, diffracting around the curve of the earth over a distance up to a few hundred miles (or kilometers) from the signal transmitter. However, after sunset, changes in the ionosphere cause AM signals to travel by skywave, enabling AM radio stations to be heard much farther from their point of origin than is normal during the day.
This means China's OTH radars are also affected. Maximum and effective detection ranges differs from day to night.

So in a shooting fight between US and China, China's OTH radar systems can be disrupted with a day attack, allowing a US carrier battlegroup to travel relatively undetected as to speed, direction and location with several hundreds of km variability.

So what is YOUR opinion of China's defense 'alternative strategies' other than using these words?
 
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Of course I do. Am asking you what 'alternative strategies' can China bring to bear?


Right...So you have no clue of what they are, you have no military experience, so all you can do is spout vague generalities about 'alternative strategies'.

Let us try again, shall we...???

Over-the-horizon radars are very large antenna assemblies. Like this one...

1554b0564e410474f62994d0a335e14b.jpg


These large stations are obviously not very mobile.

PLA Air Defence Radars / Excerpted from "Chinese Radars"

Against a B-1/B-2 combine attack, if either type of stations, transmitter or receiver, is disabled, there will be coverage gaps. That is weakness of a bi-static configuration.


The time of day is significant when it comes to ionospheric deflections. For example...

AM broadcasting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This means China's OTH radars are also affected. Maximum and effective detection ranges differs from day to night.

So in a shooting fight between US and China, China's OTH radar systems can be disrupted with a day attack, allowing a US carrier battlegroup to travel relatively undetected as to speed, direction and location with several hundreds of km variability.

So what is YOUR opinion of China's defense 'alternative strategies' other than using these words?


You in hurry miss some points..I know that I am not a military expert but thanks for reminding me again. I never said that you cannot destroy the "fixed" radars..all I said was that if those radars are hit than still China has alternative policies..
You are forum type of guy maybe retired but those people who make strategies knows live updates. You cannot compare your "mental capacity" with them..

It's what a random guy here saying that the U.S. will do this and that but you don't have any clue of counter strategies from the other side..

Lets try again....shall we???

B 1 or B 2 bombs those radars..than what?
There are other weapons also..
I think that your thinking spectrum only evolves around one given example.
So, kindly think in a broader way and those radars are not a "small god" kind of thing, without them China can still survive and it can still hit your defence areas easily.

So kindly read my posts again and you will find that I never said that the U.S. cannot hit anything, all I said was that China is well aware if "you" as being inferior in knowledge than Chinese Commanders can enlighten us with different techniques.

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And this vagueness is all that you will have. You are dismissed.

Yeah as if you know the exact strategies of China.
Do you?

Anyways, your thinking spectrum is limited to one thing at a time.
Pretty vague.
 
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