We need to talk about Indians and their "fakeness" in regards to Turkey, Islam, Japan and the West

[PakFactor]

Lately content on PDF has degraded in quality from annoying to downright trash. Now this is a valuable thread but once more i find the usual culprits spreading their hyperbole in the replies.

If you have nothing sensible to add to the discussion just read it and be on your merry way.

As for disinformation and social media - my friend @OP - back in 2011 the former Add. DG of FIA cyber wing had propositioned to establish a full time “farm” for the is counter activity in the old software park - sadly the government had other priorities at the time.

One senior officer was quoted as saying “what threat to kids in cyber cafe’s pose to internal and foreign security”.

Oh well as the French say “c'est la vie”.

The issue with Pakistan is promotion isn't based on merit and education by bring in new blood who are more in tuned to the next generation of technology and its understanding. It's always if something is working why change it -- look at Mufth Ismail no understanding of next gen FinTech yet he's a decision maker at the highest level.

 

[HydraChess]

There are both sides of counter-arguments in this category. One paper doesn't discredit the study(s).

Actually, the "study" is not study but a book. It was never peer reviewed but published for general consumption. So it had not much standing in the first place.

There are things like PISA scores in which India underperformed which are independent of Richard Lynn's studies.

There has been only one single PISA participation from India. In 2009. That too in two states. Himachal and Tamil Nadu. India has participated in TIMSS in 2003 IIRC. Ofcourse, in both these tests, Indian students underperformed. Now comparing this Pakistan's students, I do not know what will be the outcome. Pakistan has only participated in TIMSS in 2019 IIRC. It got a score of 328 for grade 4. India's score for 2003 were 397. Both were below the benchmark of 400.

Simply put, enough data to compare average IQ in India or Pakistan is not there.

India doesn't have even a respectable record in exact hard sciences competitions or long term research like International Mathematical Olympiads.

Actually, on that front India has done much much better than Pakistan and in general as well (https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2021). For instance India has ranked above likes of Denmark, France, Sweden... putting a hole in the entire IQ argument... atleast at the very top level.

IMO:
Pakistan (since 2005) : 7 Bronze and 1 Silver
India (in 2021 and 2020 alone): 2 Golds, 5 Silvers and 3 bronze)

International Mathematical Olympiad

www.imo-official.org

International Mathematical Olympiad

www.imo-official.org

Internation physics olympiad (IPO : https://ipho-unofficial.org/timeline/2017/country)
India ranked 5th. 4 gold 1 silver.
Pakistan : 0 medals
I am discounting 2019, 2018 and 2021 ones because in each year either Pakistan was missing or India.
Feel free to go in the history as well.

International Chemistry Olympiad:

IChO: List of Dates

www.icho-official.org

India : 2 Gold 2 Silver
Pakistan : 0 medals

Again you can look at history too. India has performed much above Pakistan.

Difference with Indians/Bangladeshis I have noticed is that both Husband/Wives work. Nowadays same for younger Pakistani couples as well (younger than 40). The older generation though most families the mother/wife way stay at home. Whereby Indians ive noticed even older generation women worked.

Trouble is, even taking that into account, Indian households are way above say bangladeshi ones. Which compells me to think there is more at work here.

 

[HydraChess]

Indians have higher IQ than Pakistanis, idiot!

I would have resorted to trolling but I feel really pity on you. Must be hard, right?

 

[Wood]

Our real economy is much larger than what we see on paper. For example our underground economy is actually larger than our current GDP. This is what the pajeets dont know. They always like to quote "10 times larger gdp". Our real gdp nominal should be in the 500-600 billion USD range. Which means that GDP per capita is almost the same.

Is there a study to back that claim? I've seen discussion in this forum that says Pakistan's informal economy is 56% of its GDP. This is typical for most developing countries including India.

THE size of Pakistan’s informal economy is estimated to be as much as 56 per cent of the country’s GDP (as of 2019).

Informal sector Lalarukh EjazPublished March 4, 2021 THE size of Pakistan’s informal economy is estimated to be as much as 56 per cent of the country’s GDP (as of 2019). This means that it’s worth around $180 billion a year, and that is a massive amount by any yardstick. The country’s...

defence.pk

 

[HydraChess]

Indians are known everywhere as pervy uber drivers who call white people sir lol. They are on the lowest of the totem poll of any cultural group in the western world.

Do cultural groups even matter? What that culture vulture group has done for you? Sanctioned you? Interfered in your internal affairs? Denied you weapons that you paid for? Put the lives of your people in danger for their own benefit?

Morally indians are amongst the worse of ethnic groups. A few thousand dollars more wont be able to buy you class beta.

You know, they used to say worse about Chinese. Really really worse. Before than about Japanese too. Thanks I don't need the class. You can keep it. I will take cold hard cash because that damned class is simply fake while cash is real.
In reality, slave owners, child murders are calling themselves classy because they are / were rich. I will rather take that money rather than being their class.

 

[HydraChess]

But once again wealth means very little... many indians are involved in white collar scams, divorces, alcholism, wife beating, wife swapping, nasty hygienes and the list goes on. Generally have a very bad reputation here in the US even though they are mostly educated, which is unheard of in other ethnic groups.

Does it matter?
These people will eat other alive the moment trouble happens. Have you seen them hoarding toilet paper in 2020? Thats their class. Reputation? These people killed civilizations, stole their children, raped them in the name of religion and then killed them in boarding schools. Thats their reputation. Thanks I don't need their reputation so long I have my money which is what they are good for. The same Chinese whom they once described as "oriental beasts" are now their hot icons. Thats the reputation for you. So thanks but no thanks once more.

 

[KaiserX]

Does it matter?
These people will eat other alive the moment trouble happens. Have you seen them hoarding toilet paper in 2020? Thats their class. Reputation? These people killed civilizations, stole their children, raped them in the name of religion and then killed them in boarding schools. Thats their reputation. Thanks I don't need their reputation so long I have my money which is what they are good for. The same Chinese whom they once described as "oriental beasts" are now their hot icons. Thats the reputation for you. So thanks but no thanks once more.

Im not saying other ethnicities dont have a bad reputation... Chinese do, blacks do, southern whites do, muslims do, etc... I am simply stating that indians have a very bad reputation in many quarters.

I have worked in sectors from sales, to IT Management. Americans dislike Indians highly. In sales Indians were considered highly cheap. No one would want to deal with them because they would pinch pennies. It could also be due to cultural differences as in India people are expected to haggle for prices and bargain.

In IT indians were looks down upon due to how much they would lie on their resume then on the job lack basic technical skills. I have interviewed many many indians who have claimed to work at Google, facebook, microsoft in india etc and many of these people lack very basic communication and technical skills. A lot of them would be caught off guard by scenario based questions. Our company got to the point now that we do technical tests for every candidate to weed out those that are unqualified.

Not saying all Indians are like that because many of these companies have Indian CEO's, but one must wonder why these rich white males keep Indians as their CEOs. There is definately a master-slave mindset which unfortunately even Indians follow due to their caste system and them looking upto those "Whiter" and more "Aryan" than them. Whether its central asian hindu invaders, central asian muslim invaders, or british christian invaders. THe "Brahmin" culture has ingrained this slave mindset into Indians.


Most desis in the states get along just fine. I am just stating certain observations.

 

[HydraChess]

Im not saying other ethnicities dont have a bad reputation... Chinese do, blacks do, southern whites do, muslims do, etc... I am simply stating that indians have a very bad reputation in many quarters.

Let it be, lets face it, everyone in America hates other kind. I believe in this Tom Leher song.

All of my folks hate all of your folks
It's American as apple pie

I have worked in sectors from sales, to IT Management. Americans dislike Indians highly.

I have worked in three American companies : Intel, Microsoft and Oracle. I have heard them saying things about muslims and Chinese that are simply unspeakable. I am sure behind my back they must be saying things about India too. Nothing new.

Before we (ie Indians) arrived at the scene they had such a high disgust of Japanese that they actually bought a Toyota and allowed people to smash it. Yes, they are this stupid. Read about Vincent Chin murder -- I am sure if you are in US for long enough you must have heard about it.

Before Asians, it was blacks. And now a days most despised people are Russians. I mean I have openly heard people saying on conf calls no less : "XXXX can go **** himself, he must be sucking Putin's cock anyways". XXXX in question has NOTHING to do with Russia, his entire family is here in Canada.

No one would want to deal with them because they would pinch pennies. It could also be due to cultural differences as in India people are expected to haggle for prices and bargain.

I do not have sales experience, so I cann't comment. I do have tech development and yes, Indian get their share of hate for simply being Indians but that has not stopped us. Let me put it in this way, most of us don't give a damn. We are needed not because they love us, we are needed because they need us.

In IT indians were looks down upon due to how much they would lie on their resume then on the job lack basic technical skills. I have interviewed many many indians who have claimed to work at Google, facebook, microsoft in india etc and many of these people lack very basic communication and technical skills. A lot of them would be caught off guard by scenario based questions. Our company got to the point now that we do technical tests for every candidate to weed out those that are unqualified.

Sure! It does happen a lot. Way lot. That being said, given by the number of Indians present in these companies, none of this matter for those with real credentials. All companies do a background check before hiring. All the lies come out in that and you will not be given a job if you grossly misrepresent yourself. Same happens in immigration. Lots of lies but most of them get 5 years ban upon background verification. For most of genuine Indians, it does not affect at all.. Just we have to fill a form telling about references and past employment. Thats the extent of it.

As far as "look down upon" goes, I just look at my T4 and laugh at them struggling to meet their child support payment, mortgages, student loans and credit card debt.

Not saying all Indians are like that because many of these companies have Indian CEO's, but one must wonder why these rich white males keep Indians as their CEOs. There is definately a master-slave mindset which unfortunately even Indians follow due to their caste system and them looking upto those "Whiter" and more "Aryan" than them. Whether its central asian hindu invaders, central asian muslim invaders, or british christian invaders. THe "Brahmin" culture has ingrained this slave mindset into Indians.

I don't think slave mentality etc is true. Look, employment in USA is "on will". Meaning you work till you want and employer employ you till they want. Thats it. Who have the most say on appointment of CEO? Shareholders. You can be any kind of slave but no one keeps slave if bottomline is hurt. As simple as that. You are kicked. with due haste. No one in west likes to loose money. Everything else is secondary.

 

[Black Vigo]

...and people who refuse to accept the simple fact that one shouldn't enter another person's house without getting properly invited beforehand.

What's wrong with Turks complaining about illegal immigration from South Asia? It's a given that Indians are going to exploit the situation but the general attitude in the Turkish society is shifting with respect to Pakistan.

This is not the fault of people who voice their concerns. Don't blame the victim.

You know how Turks behave in Germany right?

Turkish crime groups which consist of mafia clans from Turkey are active throughout Germany in extortion, weapon trafficking and drug trafficking. Often the gangs can be linked to political groups from their home country, such as the Grey Wolves for right-wing Turks and Dev Sol for left-wing Turks.

In 2014, the annual report on organized crime presented in Berlin by interior minister Thomas de Maizière, showed that there were 61 mighty Turkish gangs in Germany. According to the report, alongside their more traditional fields of drug smuggling, gangs are also increasingly turning their attention to burglary, car theft, and fraud. 10% of Germany's gang members were reported to be Turkish and according to statistics, the activity of Turkish gangs in Germany had decreased.[16][17]

In 2016, Die Welt and Bild reported that the new Turkish motorbike gang, Osmanien Germania, was growing rapidly. The Hannoversche Allgemeine newspaper claimed that the Osmanien Germania was advancing more and more into the red-light districts, which increases the likelihood of a bloody territorial battle with established gangs like the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club and the Mongols Motorcycle Club.[18][19][20][21][22][23]

Quoted from Wikipedia

This is how most of the world views Turkey right now

Turkish, Kurdish, Arab mafia become media obsession in Germany | Ahval

'The organised crime perpetrated by notorious groups in Germany’s Arab, Kurdish and Turkish communities has become a media obsession that inspires movies and TV series'

ahvalnews.com

Attacks on Turkish institutes rising in Germany – DW – 03/20/2018

There have been dozens of attacks so far this year on Turkish mosques and restaurants in Germany — a sharp rise from last year's figures. The Interior Ministry said Turkey's offensive in Afrin has inflamed tensions.

www.dw.com

German police bust crime ring based at Turkish call center - Türkiye News

German authorities have broken up an international crime ring that duped elderly people into handing over their money and valuables to criminals posing as police officers, a German newspaper reported on Dec. 19.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

5 Turkish citizens among 9 victims in far-right attacks in Germany's Hanau

Five Turkish citizens were among nine people fatally shot in the central German city of Hanau, Turkey's Ambassador to Berlin Ali Kemal Aydın said...

www.dailysabah.com

Now the question is are all Turks who go to Germany are criminals? Illiterate? Rapists? Perverts?
No they aren't because these are just a few bad eggs


But of course since Pakistanis who are so obsessed with shows like Ertugul and Turkish history think they'll be welcomed with open arms so it's their fault too for having such low self respect that they visit a hostile and arrogant country like Turkey not the Turks who hate them

...and people who refuse to accept the simple fact that one shouldn't enter another person's house without getting properly invited beforehand.

What's wrong with Turks complaining about illegal immigration from South Asia? It's a given that Indians are going to exploit the situation but the general attitude in the Turkish society is shifting with respect to Pakistan.

This is not the fault of people who voice their concerns. Don't blame the victim.

Nobody blamed the "victim"
Everyone is talking about the fact that just because of a few idiots our entire country is being disrespected by Turks and that will not be allowed

Hate on immigrants as much as you want hate on those people who come to your country as much as you want I simply do not care as this isn't my internal matter

The fact that Turks go as far as to insult Pakistan as a country and Islam as a religion is where we draw the line that is where it is unacceptable to us

Those Pakistanis who still defend Turkey and Turks in Pakistan despite being humiliated like this might wake up from their delusions if Turks keep treating them like shit I hope because enough is enough

I viewed Turkey positively and on equal terms and mutual respect not that so called brotherhood ertugul fanboys talk about where Turks treat them like shit but they still keep kissing their feet and given the current events it doesn't seem the future for our two countries as allies is bright

 

[RescueRanger]

You know how Turks behave in Germany right?

Quoted from Wikipedia

This is how most of the world views Turkey right now

Turkish, Kurdish, Arab mafia become media obsession in Germany | Ahval

'The organised crime perpetrated by notorious groups in Germany’s Arab, Kurdish and Turkish communities has become a media obsession that inspires movies and TV series'

ahvalnews.com

Attacks on Turkish institutes rising in Germany – DW – 03/20/2018

There have been dozens of attacks so far this year on Turkish mosques and restaurants in Germany — a sharp rise from last year's figures. The Interior Ministry said Turkey's offensive in Afrin has inflamed tensions.

www.dw.com

German police bust crime ring based at Turkish call center - Türkiye News

German authorities have broken up an international crime ring that duped elderly people into handing over their money and valuables to criminals posing as police officers, a German newspaper reported on Dec. 19.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

5 Turkish citizens among 9 victims in far-right attacks in Germany's Hanau

Five Turkish citizens were among nine people fatally shot in the central German city of Hanau, Turkey's Ambassador to Berlin Ali Kemal Aydın said...

www.dailysabah.com

Now the question is are all Turks who go to Germany are criminals? Illiterate? Rapists? Perverts?
No they aren't because these are just a few bad eggs


But of course since Pakistanis who are so obsessed with shows like Ertugul and Turkish history think they'll be welcomed with open arms so it's their fault too for having such low self respect that they visit a hostile and arrogant country like Turkey not the Turks who hate them


Nobody blamed the "victim"
Everyone is talking about the fact that just because of a few idiots our entire country is being disrespected by Turks and that will not be allowed

Hate on immigrants as much as you want hate on those people who come to your country as much as you want I simply do not care as this isn't my internal matter

The fact that Turks go as far as to insult Pakistan as a country and Islam as a religion is where we draw the line that is where it is unacceptable to us

Those Pakistanis who still defend Turkey and Turks in Pakistan despite being humiliated like this might wake up from their delusions if Turks keep treating them like shit I hope because enough is enough

I viewed Turkey positively and on equal terms and mutual respect not that so called brotherhood ertugul fanboys talk about where Turks treat them like shit but they still keep kissing their feet and given the current events it doesn't seem the future for our two countries as allies is bright

Personally I don’t think he’s Turkish - more like a cockroach from a nearby gutter trying to exploit the situation.

 

[Black Vigo]

Personally I don’t think he’s Turkish - more like a cockroach from a nearby gutter trying to exploit the situation.

I do hope so because if he is then this is bad for Turks themselves in the long run considering we are one of their few allies (of course it goes for us too but then again we are already going through a hard time and used to it by this point)

 

[RescueRanger]

I do hope so because if he is then this is bad for Turks themselves in the long run considering we are one of their few allies (of course it goes for us too but then again we are already going through a hard time and used to it by this point)

I don’t think he’s a Turk also I have read many Pro Pakistani Turkish comments on SM too.

You have to understand there are a certain segment of Turkish people who are very pro-EU and look down on Pakistan and then there are those who want closer links with Pakistan and the Muslim world.

Having worked and been to Europe I know all too well the abusive and demeaning language Europeans use towards Turkish men.

Turkish people who are quick to label all Pakistanis as “perverts” are just projecting. Most likely those type of people have never even dealt with any Pakistanis

 

[Black Vigo]

I don’t think he’s a Turk also I have read many Pro Pakistani Turkish comments on SM too.

I only came across a few Turks who are Pro Pak and yes I'm thankful to them for the unconditional support but it still doesn't excuse the fact that thousands more are shitting on our identity because of few jahil patwaris

and then there are those who want closer links with Pakistan and the Muslim world.

Very few and far between as far as I have experienced

Having worked and been to Europe I know all too well the abusive and demeaning language Europeans use towards Turkish men.

Indeed they consider turks as 3rd class citizens (Not that they don't do the same to us )

Turkish people who are quick to label all Pakistanis as “perverts” are just projecting. Most likely those type of people have never even dealt with any Pakistanis

They just want to appear cooler to their EU masters that's all

"Look how Sickular we are"
"Look how we trash on Izlam"
"Please accept us EU daddy"

 

[RescueRanger]

I only came across a few Turks who are Pro Pak and yes I'm thankful to them for the unconditional support but it still doesn't excuse the fact that thousands more are shitting on our identity because of few jahil patwaris


Very few and far between as far as I have experienced


Indeed they consider turks as 3rd class citizens (Not that they don't do the same to us )


They just want to appear cooler to their EU masters that's all

"Look how Sickular we are"
"Look how we trash on Izlam"
"Please accept us EU daddy"

100 percent in agreement with everything you’ve said.

 

[kingQamaR]

The reason is simple. The ones that are more interested to be called as Turk Europeans, which are there atheists secular ones , don’t want that Islamic/Arabic stereotype on them. They pretend live as sophisticated human beings in there daily lives and most are not even Muslim. This Turkish people want to be called European because otherwise are only be called Asian, or Arabs camel riders. I’ve only pointed on this minority who I really believe are the trouble makers here not all of turkey maybe I’m wrong I don’t know.