We know how to deal with you, India warns Pakistan

[karan.1970]

By the way both US and NATO have realised that without bringing Taliban into the mainstream, peace cannot be accomplished, something Pakistan has been saying since WOT started, Indian babbling does not matter anymore, because the fact of the matter is Pakistan was right.

Say that once the problem is solved.. What you are saying is still in talks and discussions.. Come here celebrating Pakistan's correctness when that transforms into reality. Right now its as much vaporware as was US victory in Afg in the year 2002-2003

 

[Bang Galore]

Zardari's opinion fails when tested against the facts and extensive research done by scholars on the Taliban movement.

When Nirupama Rao speaks, it is assumed and rightly so that she speaks for the Indian government and her words unless officially retracted is the position of the state of India. How then can Zardari's opinion be his own? I have seen no retraction, not from President Zardari, not from the government, not from the army and not from the ISI itself. His statement therefore in the absence of any retraction must be taken to represent the official position of the state of Pakistan.

Many scholars have written about Pakistan's assistance to terror groups and more specifically on the ISI's role in using terror as state policy. I have not seen one Pakistani member here accept that as being the gospel truth simply because the writer is a renowned scholar who has won this or the other award. One cannot cherry pick those articles that suit you and dismiss others that don't.

 

[champion]

well let see what govt plans

 

[Bang Galore]

Have you bothered to read the date of the article or is just because the title is "Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather" you find the read very interesting.

What period do you think we are discussing here? Those are the declassified documents of the U.S. government pertaining to the years 1994 to 2001. I thought we were discussing those years and yes, I did find it interesting reading.

Also i would remind you before you harp somemore on this crap, read the statement made by Hillary Clinton. SInce you can dig down back to 2007 to find an article to support your strawman argument, you dont have to go that far to find out what she had to say regarding where the responsibility lies for taliban.

Very interesting choice of words - Strawman Argument. Usually hear this from another member. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, perhaps. Only one problem. I have made no argument, strawman or otherwise. All i have done is to post a link to some declassified documents. If you had actually bothered to read the whole thing, you would have found a very complicated series of events being discussed and the U.S. perspectives of the same. You might have even understood why i said it was an interesting read. All you seem to have done is read the headline and jump in straight away which incidentally is what happened with the original article of this thread.
BTW, I have read what Hilary Clinton said though she said nothing that i had not already known earlier.

 

[karan.1970]

Well deal with Indian braggadocio when there Indian actions are able to match up to their words. Initiating a proxy war against Pakistan (If India has not already been doing so through its sponsorship of terrorism in Baluchistan and elsewhere) will only mean that the gloves come of once again in Kashmir.

We have silenced our guns and allowed the Kashmir insurgency to peter off in the interest of utilizing dialog to resolve the J&K dispute, on which substantial progress was made during Musharraf's rule - that desire to see progress through dialog should not be mistaken for weakness and inability to reverse direction were India to engage in a proxy war with Pakistan.

Indian attacks on Pakistan, overt or covert, will not go unanswered. India will burn so long as it attempts to harm Pakistan, cold start or no cold start and chest thumping by Indian politicians, notwithstanding.

A couple of points here..

Firstly are you agreeing that Pakistan has been driving/managing the terrorist/freedom fighter incidents in J&K. Or how else are you in a position to let Kashmir Insurgency peter off??

Secondly, I really dont buy the arguement of gloves getting off or on. For India, Pakistan does not do anything out of goodness of its heart. Its the current compulsions in Pakistan's own situation that have led to Pakistan having to focus on its western border and NWFP region. The jury is still out on whether those compulsions had any contribution from India or not..

Pakistan having silenced its guns and the threat to reverse that if india engages in proxy war actually implies that Pakistan had been festering terrorism in India which in turn legitimizes any action that India is taking in Pakistan today...

Pakistani attacks on India and its interests, overt or covert, will not go unanswered. Pakistan will burn so long as it attempts to harm India , jihadis or no jihadis and chest thumping by Pakistani politicians, notwithstanding.[/QUOTE]

 

[IceCold]

Say that once the problem is solved.. What you are saying is still in talks and discussions.. Come here celebrating Pakistan's correctness when that transforms into reality. Right now its as much vaporware as was US victory in Afg in the year 2002-2003

Why do i sense smoke coming out from somewhere. Never the less yes indeed it is in talks however for the first time a step is taken in the right direction by the US and NATO, something Pakistan is being insisting for so long, rest assured Pakistan has alot on stake then India because we share a porous border with them and hence Pakistans opinion matters more irrespective to what India has to say and so has both the US and NATO acknowledged.

 

[karan.1970]

Why do i sense smoke coming out from somewhere. Never the less yes indeed it is in talks however for the first time a step is taken in the right direction by the US and NATO, something Pakistan is being insisting for so long, rest assured Pakistan has alot on stake then India because we share a porous border with them and hence Pakistans opinion matters more irrespective to what India has to say and so has both the US and NATO acknowledged.

Ignoring the idiotic and immature personal insult...

Dont have a doubt on Pakistan's high stakes in Afg. However, your previous note proclaimed the correctness of Pakistan's position of negotiating with the taliban which is yet to be proven on the ground. Its yet to be seen where these first steps lead to..

 

[Srinivas]

And again indians doing what they accuse Pakistan of It's getting old now from these utter hypocrites

This is Statement has its own importance and India does have the capability to deal with pakistan . The bottom line is India cannot be bullied like pakistan by Us or China.
If pakistan which is small compared to india can support a bunch of terrorists against India. India can do much more to curb it with even more security personal.

 

[IceCold]

Ignoring the idiotic and immature personal insult...

Ok i should have chosen a better set of words to express the sentiments that led to why you quoted my post. So my apologies for the same.

Dont have a doubt on Pakistan's high stakes in Afg. However, your previous note proclaimed the correctness of Pakistan's position of negotiating with the taliban which is yet to be proven on the ground. Its yet to be seen where these first steps lead to..

Why else do you think Pakistans stance has been accepted and adopted by the US and NATO in the future Afghan policy if it wasnt correct as you like to put it?
Like i mentioned before it does not matter whether India accepts it or not, because those who actually have a say in the Afghan matter have already and hence validates my original comments about correctness.

 

[IceCold]

What period do you think we are discussing here? Those are the declassified documents of the U.S. government pertaining to the years 1994 to 2001. I thought we were discussing those years and yes, I did find it interesting reading.



Very interesting choice of words - Strawman Argument. Usually hear this from another member. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, perhaps. Only one problem. I have made no argument, strawman or otherwise. All i have done is to post a link to some declassified documents. If you had actually bothered to read the whole thing, you would have found a very complicated series of events being discussed and the U.S. perspectives of the same. You might have even understood why i said it was an interesting read. All you seem to have done is read the headline and jump in straight away which incidentally is what happened with the original article of this thread.

Yes i did read the whole thing and nothing is there that hasnt been been refuted again and again yet digging out holes and bringing the same says alot about a person.

BTW, I have read what Hilary Clinton said though she said nothing that i had not already known earlier.

If you had i am sure you wouldnt have felt the need to dig this out and post it here but i guess all in a days work.

 

[achimus]

Read through the entire list I posted - that is a whole lot of events and actions in Afghanistan that Pakistan had little to no control over. Woudl the Soviets have merely stayed put in Afghanistan or would they have eventually marched East in conjunction with India?

Given historical Afghan hostility to Pakistan, and Afghan attempts to destabilize Pakistan and claim its territory, would Afghanistan have been emboldened with a Soviet military presence on its soil to once again spark terrorism and insurgencies on Pakistani territory in order to occupy and claim it?

And what of the international abandonment of Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated? After the invasion that was probably the next most significant cause for Afghanistan's slide into chaos - and again, none of Pakistan's doing.

Now that you have made me understand I feel so sorry for you guys. Should I write you a cheque now!!!

Yesterday it was Soviet invasion of Afganistan, today its the taliban and al qaeda. Okay, given. But you folks will soon run out of excuses.

Have a look at Vietnam, a former war field of the superpowers. These guys are now in the news for the right reason.

 

[karan.1970]

Ok i should have chosen a better set of words to express the sentiments that led to why you quoted my post. So my apologies for the same.

Thanks.. Appreciate it...

Why else do you think Pakistans stance has been accepted and adopted by the US and NATO in the future Afghan policy if it wasnt correct as you like to put it?
Like i mentioned before it does not matter whether India accepts it or not, because those who actually have a say in the Afghan matter have already and hence validates my original comments about correctness.

In my view, probably because it gives US (more like Obama) a possible quick out from Afg. And again, I am not saying that its incorrect but that its correctness is not yet established. NATO seems to have bought into it in theory. For all you know it may well be correct and India's assertion may prove wrong, but all that is yet to be seen in practise.

So in a nutshell, Pakistan's suggested approach has found favor with the NATO forces in theory. How well it gets implemented and whether it succeeds or not will be known in next 9-12 months..

And hence my contention that jury is still out on whether Pakistan will be correct or not..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now that you have made me understand I feel so sorry for you guys. Should I write you a cheque now!!!

Thanks for stopping by to troll.

I regret wasting my time attempting to explain things to you when it is evident you have neither the capacity nor interest to understand or engage constructively.

Yesterday it was Soviet invasion of Afganistan, today its the taliban and al qaeda. Okay, given. But you folks will soon run out of excuses.

I was unaware that the invasion by a superpower that led to the destruction of a nation, and the subsequent repercussions region wide, was an 'excuse' made up by Pakistan.

Have a look at Vietnam, a former war field of the superpowers. These guys are now in the news for the right reason.

Ahh, but Vietnam is not Afghanistan and both had different dynamics in operation, and hence not an apt comparison.

Good bye.

 

[afriend]

And what exactly have we not done to stick to our words? Have we not taken action against those accused in 26/11? You can surely disagree by saying that Hafiz Saeed was released but then again what you failed to understand is that Pakistan too has a judical system and unless and untill sufficent evidence is provided by India to charge him, prosecution would have its hands tied.

You fail to understand the entire premises, we are saying that there is terror groups present in pakistan who is instigating violence and jihad.. and the same is open and captured in camera.. you are not doing anything about it.!!! Your govt says you will not allow any anti india activity and the fact at the ground level shows other wise..!!! That validates all india have been saying all this while.. there are some elements in your establishement who provides support to them..!!!!

Ohh please spare us the usual BS. Right after 26/11 within the 1st hour India through some magic wand knew Pakistan was behind it and talks about every option open and IAF violating Pakistan airspace means what to you?

Yes aren't we right in doing everything in our hand to defend our mother land..!!!! As i said the hyprocacy or the double face you showed from the videographic evidences of anti india terror faces from pakistan clearly vindicts india stand..!! Are you expecting us to get all this abuse liying down for ever..???? And IAF violation.. again shows your double face when your own president come on live telivision and says that its a mistake and not a deliberate violation..!!!!

By all means carry on with this policy, surely no one will loose sleep on the other side of the border. Your last line by the way clearly resembles an Indian mindset "India is right in every way" Ofcourse how can India be wrong, it has to be Pakistan.......is the kind of mentality, we cant possibly hope for peace in South Asia.

Ha.. brother.. don't take words which suits your agenda from a sentance.. our policy is very clear today, and asper that policy and with evidences that we recieved it clearly highlights that our position is right..!!! Most of the countries int he world are ready to talk and make a deal with any one including terrorists if the sam can be good for them..l be it US and Pakistan..!! But indian policy is very clear.. we supported bangladesh and left them alone to rule their country... we supported LTTE but fought with them when they turned into militancy..our army is fights a war against terrorists in kashmir and have so far have not taken any military actinos against sepratists... we are taking actions against Naxals and is very clear that we wont talk to them unless they lay down their arms..!!! So we are having a consistent policy which will be giving us set backs in the short runs but in the long run the world will appreciate our stand..!!!!

 

[abdul1]

Hafiz saeed was never arrested on charges of 26/11 so there is no point of any action taken