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We don't need your advice: Muslim leader to Musharraf

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PAKISTAN's IMPACT ON INDIAN MUSLIMS

By Mirza Faisal

The provocation for writing this article was some recent comments by Pakistanis accusing the Indian Muslims of being apologetic to other Indians by speaking out against Pakistan. My intention is to explore whether it is apologetics or it is a matter of the heart when the Indian Muslim speaks on these matters.

Out of some good articles on understandingpakistan.com one of the articles by Athar Osama mentioned “Under the plan of India’s Independence, Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947 as the only country in the world established to safeguard the interests of a religious community.

This perhaps sums the whole basis on which the idea of Pakistan was pursued and achieved. I, an Indian Muslim, who was born much after partition and who is completely detached of the politics that was at that time, wants to assess that from the eyes of an Indian Muslim.

This article has nothing to do with the general Pakistani people. The Pakistanis whom I have met have mostly been very decent and some of the most courteous people. We are the same blood, similar cultures, same languages, same cuisines and similar dress. The prior statement is not from an Indian Muslim but from an Indian. If an Indian can be most closely identified with any other people in the whole world outside India it will be either Pakistan or Bangladesh – whether it be skin, language, cuisine, culture, music, arts or many other things.

This is also not an analysis of history as to what happened prior to the partition. I am too detached from the social and political conditions at that time to comment on them intellectually. This is just an analysis of the end results. The way an Indian Muslim looks at the things as they stand now. It has nothing to do with the people of Pakistan but it is to do either with the administration or the idea of Pakistan.

In India, across the Indian Muslim community it is widely accepted now that the partition of India was the biggest blunder that happened. Instead of safeguarding the interests of the Indian Muslims it reduced the ones who continued to live in India to a position of significantly reduced importance. It impacted the most those who needed the biggest safeguards, the poorest of the poor. A significant portion of the educated cream of the Indian Muslim community migrated to Pakistan; some say they chickened out when the push came to shove. Most of the remaining Muslims in India were poor who would be just fighting to make their two ends meet.

The first silver lining in this was that India was formed as a secular and democratic state. The constitution of India recognized that every citizen will be absolutely equal in his rights and will be free to profess, practice and propagate his religion. The goals were set in the clearest way and the struggle was to achieve the goal and not about the goal itself. It has often been a struggle for the Indian Muslims no doubt but the question has not been the constitution but it has been about upholding the spirit of the constitution. The same Nehru who is often held responsible in Pakistan for the inflexibility fought to uphold the secular fabric of India.

The second is the demographics of the country. India is a unique country, one of its kind. It is like Western Europe put together in a single country. That is true whether you compare it in size, population, languages, cultures, cuisines, dress, habits and many other things. This fact itself makes it a land of huge diversity and contradictions unlike any other place in the world. This structure itself demands that people of different backgrounds have different needs in their daily lives. The result of that is the number of players that have emerged in the Indian political structure. The identities are not Hindu and Muslim so much as the Muslim League would have thought or the BJP wants.

The result of this diversity has been that even after unleashing its whole might and propaganda machinery through RSS its political offshoot the BJP, at its zenith, could never get more than 25% of the votes. It is only in Gujarat that the worst fears of the Muslims have come true. Other than many of the leaders of BJP no political party questions the Muslims about their existential and cultural position. Many political parties acted as ‘messiah’ of the Muslims and paid just lip service yet perhaps no other party other than the exception of BJP pursued harming the interests of the Muslims.

The response of the Indian Muslims has been as true citizens. The overwhelming majority of them took the path of the ballot and followed all the democratic means at their disposal. This is the reason that there were so few supporting political parties to BJP and it was able to put together NDA only when it toned down its rhetoric and agenda. When Gujarat 2002 happened and later NDA lost in the general elections some of the supporting parties found it tough to remain onboard.

As the generation that lived through or was close to the years of partition is getting replaced by those who are completely detached from it a new Indian Muslim identity is emerging. When the Indian economy was sluggish and the jobs were few, it was not meritocracy alone that was basis of governmental jobs and discrimination was easy. But now as the economy is booming and every corporation or entrepreneur wants the best hand to work for them, it is just about who has the skills to get the job done. This is evident from the recent Sachar Panel report where though Muslims are pathetically under-represented in all segments yet their best representation comes in the flagship industry of India, the IT and ITES industry.

The goals of Muslims in India are clearly cut out; safety of life and property, uprooting poverty in the community, increasing literacy and getting to the fore-front of the administrative and economic leadership of India. One of the biggest roadblocks to these is the prejudices, stereotypes and discrimination that the lowest rung of the society face. This is not because of any of the democratic institutions of the country but solely because of the people who fill them. The constitution safeguards the interests and the highest level of judiciary safeguards the interests. If the perpetrators of the Mumbai or Gujarat riots do not see the door of justice it is because of the people who shun their constitutional responsibilities.

Indian Muslims have successfully survived in India. The future only looks better. The Two Nation Theory has been falsified. India and Pakistan keep vying with each other over who has more Muslims! So what has been the contribution of Pakistan in safeguarding the Indian Muslims after the biggest blunder that had already happened in partition? In one single word: Negative. Why negative and why not zero? Because as I argue below it is negative.

The worst thing that can happen to the Indian Muslims is adding fuel to the propaganda machinery of the right wing. While Indian Muslims have their own weaknesses and moles that are responsible for this but the focus here is only on Pakistan’s contribution.

Firstly, by opposing India being a member of the Organization of Islamic Countries (OIC). In 1969, when OIC was formed and India lobbied to be included as it had the third largest Muslim population in the world Pakistan successfully lobbied against it. Pakistan looked at its strategic self-interests and not anything about safeguarding the Indian Muslims otherwise it was a significant move on the part of India to have made that move to be included in the organization as an Islamic country! If Gabon with just 10% Muslims (150,000 Muslim citizens) can be a member, it is a mockery that India with 150 million Muslims and till very recently having the second largest Muslim population on the planet is denied that status. If India was denied significant position vis a vis Muslim countries there was little incentive for her to put the strong feet of her Muslim cultural identity forward and sustain it.

Secondly, the most contentious issue of the way we look at history. The propaganda machinery of the Indian right wing does a great job in picking up all the opinions, lies and rumors against Muslim rulers and paint a picture that the presence of Muslims in India has been the biggest damage and tragedy to the Indian civilization. Whereas invaders like Ghauri and Ghaznavi are understandably condemned even the Mughals who lived in India as their own home are termed as foreigners. While Indian Muslims look at the past as a syncretic culture of great tolerance the Pakistani reading of history is music to the ears of the right wing in India. When Pakistan builds its missile programme it names these weapons as Ghauri, Ghaznavi and Babur as instruments to attack India. This just reiterates the point to every Indian listening to them and reinforcing the deep rooted prejudices.

It matters little to both the sides on this reading of history – of Hindus pitted against Muslims in the medieval ages - that Babur defeated a Muslim Ibrahim Lodhi at Delhi’s throne, Ghauri defeated Prithvi Raj’s army which was led by a Muslim and Ghaznavi had one of his top generals who was a Hindu named Tilak. It also matters little in this reading of history that when Akbar and Maharana Pratap fought at Haldighati then Akbar’s army was led by a Hindu Raja Man Singh and Maharana Pratap’s army was led by a Muslim Hakim Khan Suri. It also matters little in this reading that the Sikh Guru Arjan Dev who was executed by Aurangzeb had the foundation stone of Golden Temple laid by Mian Mir a sufi saint and had included so many sufi songs in the Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib. Or that Shivaji who fought with Aurangzeb had a Pathan unit and one of his most trusted aides was Didi Ibrahim, a Muslim and that Aurangzeb sent Raja Jaisingh, a Hindu to fight him. Or that when Babur defeated Rana Sanga at Panipat the latter’s army had thousands of Muslim soldiers.

Thirdly, it is the treatment in Pakistan to its minorities. The fuel to the Sangh Parivar is that while the Muslim percentage in India has marginally increased since partition that of Hindus in Pakistan has significantly reduced and they are widely discriminated against at all levels. They say that if Hindu discrimination is so deep in Pakistan then why should Muslims of India claim anything better?

The Two Nation Theory had no theological base. That is the reason that the Ulama were so much against the partition. The Prophet from his example of Madina showed a model of co-existence, where his city included the Muslims, Jews and Pagans as citizens of a rudimentary state. The two nation theory was propounded just from a social perspective. The Muslim League leaders got stuck in talking with a few on the opposite side and took them to be India. It was sad that they could not figure out that in a democracy while Muslims, quite justifiably, would not have had an upper hand so would any other section, as India is incredibly diverse by its very nature.

I don’t know about what the social context was in which partition happened but I now know for sure that the leaders who pursued it were shortsighted. Pakistan formed as an ‘Islamic’ country refused to acknowledge the rights of Bangla Muslims and the country split within 25 years. In its sixty years of existence it has been under military rule for a significant portion. The independent presence of judiciary is so impacted that its most famous Prime Ministers are either barred from entering their own country or hanged. A couple of weeks back Dina Wadia (daughter of Jinnah) wanted to spend her last days in Jinnah House in Bombay and not at any place in Pakistan. If today 13% Muslims can impact the political scene in India then definitely about 35% could have never been taken for a ride.

But today let us have bygones be bygones. India needs a strong Pakistan; not as an enemy but as a friendly neighbor. A neighbor that works with India in creating a South Asian super zone similar to the Euro Zone, by looking in the syncretic past and not by picking up twisted irritants from the past. The solution is not by putting Pakistan in contrast to India in everything particularly in identity but in drawing inspiration from the mutual past. Having multi billion dollar budgets to safeguard the borders in countries where still hundreds of millions of its citizens earn less than dollar a day is no way justifiable. Working on projects of recreating national boundaries will not solve anything as we have seen. But peace and respect among the largest ethnic population on the face of the earth can create wonders. It will make life easier for India’s Muslims too as the propaganda machinery of the Sangh Parivar will have lesser fuel to add to the fire.

http://indianmuslims.in/pakistans-impact-on-indian-muslims/
 
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Simple. Stop supporting the separatists and jehadis, morally or materially. Declare the LOC as IB and be done with it.

Say hello to peace and prosperity.

Why should we declare the LoC as IB? Why is it your way or no way?

Its a LoC for a reason. Otherwise it would have been IB from the very begining.
 
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Why should we declare the LoC as IB? Why is it your way or no way?

Its a LoC for a reason. Otherwise it would have been IB from the very begining.

Because that way is the only way. There is no other way. If you are thinking that either country will cede territory, you are fooling yourself.

Your second sentence makes no sense, sorry. Why should a caterpillar become a butterfly? Shouldn\'t it have been born a butterfly from the very beginning?
 
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Because that way is the only way. There is no other way. If you are thinking that either country will cede territory, you are fooling yourself.

Your second sentence makes no sense, sorry. Why should a caterpillar become a butterfly? Shouldn\'t it have been born a butterfly from the very beginning?

No the point is that its a disputed territory. What we propose is not acceptable to the Indian side. So should we just go for what India proposes (which is status-quo)? Well no.! That is not acceptable.
 
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No the point is that its a disputed territory. What we propose is not acceptable to the Indian side. So should we just go for what India proposes (which is status-quo)? Well no.! That is not acceptable.

Well then keep supporting Jehadis and claiming them to be freedom fighters. Lets see how long you can do that without completely destroying your own social fabric from within.

As for India, it is not going to budge from a single inch of territory.
 
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Well then keep supporting Jehadis and claiming them to be freedom fighters. Lets see how long you can do that without completely destroying your own social fabric from within.

As for India, it is not going to budge from a single inch of territory.

Pakistan may get destroyed in the process but India won't be left unscathed while a wrong is being committed against an entire people. There are consequences to it.

As for you last point, do you really think that anything would be different even if Jihadis were not around? The problem of Kashmir has been festering from long before the Jihadi appeared on the scene.

It is duly noted and acknowledged that India will not budge (regardless of the Jihadi factor which essentially is another tactic to deflect the real issue on hand).

In any case, Kashmir is not going to get resolved in at least my life time.

So have a nice day!
 
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Nice day to you too. I see that you don\'t mind turning Pakistan into a sacrificial lamb for the Kashmiri \"cause\".

Sad, very sad. I think I have seen the face behind the facade today. Not a pretty sight.
 
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No we could care less (we are not the Pakistan and Pakistanis of 1948 who had the memories of the carnage and all the machinations that went on vis a vis the Hindus and Muslims). Pakistan's sole concern is the Kashmir issue. The concern for the shoddy treatment of the Indian Muslims is in the same league as what we voice about the shoddy treatment of Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis or elsewhere.

We do not sit around reminding ourselves about the challenges of Indian Muslims day and night to justify the existence of Pakistan.
You folks need to revise what you are taught through your media and pundits about the Pakistani psyche. What you describe is a very rudimentary understanding of the situation.

The more empowered the Indian Muslims become, the better the chance of rapprochement between Pakistan and India. We have no reason to fear Indian Muslims and Hindus getting along. Most of the Pakistanis have a different understanding of the situation specially after by force of arms, East Pakistan was ceded away. The reality is that Muslims in South Asia can survive alone or as part of a multi-religious polity. In the end, as long as Muslims are free to do what they want to do without persecution, we are fine with it.

While you may not Blain. But the posts, and a majority of them on this forum, let alone forums like PDF do make it clear in NO uncertain terms that they shed crocodile tears for Indian Muslims just to highlight what Pakistan offers them-their own land.

And if Pakistani's were REALLY concerned about the plight of Muslims, why does Pakistan do nothing about the Taliban killing and blowing up buildings every third day in Pakistan? Why are there apologetics of Taliban on even this board? Why are there more Muslims killed in Pakistan yearly? Why did Pakistan carry on supporting Taliban when it became clear that they were introducing inhumane laws there?

Why was Pakistan supporting terrorism in Kashmir AFTER it became clear 1997 onwards, that terrorists were also blowing up bombs and themselves indiscriminately in public markets? We'rnt Muslims being killed there instead of the Indian Army?

Allow me to tell you why-because these tears are not real. They are for show, because Pakistan, like most other countries-deems its interest to come first before ideological affiliations.

Lastly blain, do you actually think that residents of Pakistan think that they are Pakistani's or Muslims first? Because people of Pakistan have still not been able to answer that question. And while you and a few other educated and modern people might know the obvious ideal answer to that question, a significant percentage of the people there DONT-and many of them are not uneducated.
Pakistan becomes a nation as a whole only when against India.
 
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My friend, Kashmir was a disputed area contested by both. East Pakistan was not! Get the facts straight before comparing Apples with Oranges.

Pakistan has always played within the realm of that dispute. 1948, Operation Gibraltar (1965), Siachen, Kargil, these are all within the realm of the overall Kashmir dispute. You need to understand that India is not the "uncontested" master of these areas. There are unresolved issues to be settled.
Has India not made it amply clear that any action in Kashmir would initiate a reaction from India? And all of Pakistan comes under that.

Why do the Pakistani Generals KEEP assuming that whatever they do in Kashmir is considered acceptable? Has India not made it clear that response to any activity in Kashmir is considered as an act on the whole of India and response would be accordingly.

Answer me this, if Kashmir is fair game for Pakistan, then *** should also be fair game for India? That means that when India threatened the use of surgical attacks in ***, why did Pakistan make it clear that any attack on *** means an all out war with Pakistan?

That is because Pakistan considers *** as a part of its country, the same way India considers Kashmir as part of its country.

So WHY the double standards? India acted JUST the way Pakistan has threatened to react.
 
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What a dumb molvi.He should have bothered to check stats first.I think Musharraf did not say that we have more muslims because he did not want to embarrass molvi.

Yar Saad:
Just think for a sec that the conference was held to bring together all the brains to discuss issues which have and are or will effect us. This malvi was put in there to by the Indians to get musharaf but who care the standing ovation was was enough to convince the world that he is still Musharaf. :pakistan:
 
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Simple. Stop supporting the separatists and jehadis, morally or materially. Declare the LOC as IB and be done with it.

Say hello to peace and prosperity.

I got one better.......let the indian occupation army leave kashmir and let the people of kashmir join pakistan and then say "say hello to peace and prosperity."
I am totally for a kashmiri version of hezbollah-hamas that should fight for kashmir.......jihad for peace!
 
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