We don't need your advice: Muslim leader to Musharraf

[Bhishma]

and all the problems in these regions started when india made its prescence in afghanistan.

Swat, FATA, NWFP used to be the most peaceful areas in Pakistan from 1947-2001.

Yeah. And blame India all you want. Any non-Pakistani realizes the utter ridiculousness of the idea that radical Islamist organizations would be working to further the interests of \\\'infidels\\\'.

Ultimately, it doesn\\\'t matter whether India is responsible or Neptune. The fact of the matter is that more muslims in Pakistan are being killed, maimed, suppressed and displaced than any other country in Asia, and perhaps even the world.

So much for protection of muslims. The Great Satan, aka America, is the best place for muslims on earth. That is where the freest and most prosperous muslims live. Ironic, isn\\\'t it?

 

[Jihad]

LOL, funny, I'd like to see Musharraf's reaction.
And the person who said this to Musharraf obviously tried to score some points with his Hindu counterparts.
Indian muslims are slaves inside their own country, they don't realize it, they're trying to be proud of something, but of what, why is there so much sympathy needed for them, why do they act so defenseless, don't they have any pride or selfrespect?
Knowing Musharraf a little for his statements and words, he most likely has given this person a fitting reply, so i'm waiting to hear about it, and in the meantime, all the anti-Musharraf kiddies can have their turn.

 

[Torpedo]

LOL, funny, I'd like to see Musharraf's reaction.
And the person who said this to Musharraf obviously tried to score some points with his Hindu counterparts.
Indian muslims are slaves inside their own country, they don't realize it, they're trying to be proud of something, but of what, why is there so much sympathy needed for them, why do they act so defenseless, don't they have any pride or selfrespect?
Knowing Musharraf a little for his statements and words, he most likely has given this person a fitting reply, so i'm waiting to hear about it, and in the meantime, all the anti-Musharraf kiddies can have their turn.

Well, atleast they are alive and don't have to face any drone attacks!

BTW, all the Musharraf supporters and Indian Muslim caretakers seem to have run out of logical reasoning.

Calling everyone 'kid' doesn't prove anything. And yes, I say it again, there is no point in relying on Musharraf's reply. It hardly matters. The important thing was the feeling of Indian Muslims, which was solidly expressed.

You don't have a right to call a patriotic Muslim 'traitor'. Don't talk as if he has betrayed the Muslim world. Majority of Muslims think on same line (and majority of Hindus too). He was a mere representative. But they never share the limelight provided on negative elements and incidents.

 

[blain2]

LOL, funny, I'd like to see Musharraf's reaction.
And the person who said this to Musharraf obviously tried to score some points with his Hindu counterparts.
Indian muslims are slaves inside their own country, they don't realize it, they're trying to be proud of something, but of what, why is there so much sympathy needed for them, why do they act so defenseless, don't they have any pride or selfrespect?
Knowing Musharraf a little for his statements and words, he most likely has given this person a fitting reply, so i'm waiting to hear about it, and in the meantime, all the anti-Musharraf kiddies can have their turn.

Musharraf put the Maulana in his place. In the depths of his heart, the Maulana knows that Pakistanis are concerned for the Muslims in India (this has nothing to do with politics) based on the ideals of Islamic solidarity. Pakistanis also know that when Indian Muslims dish out, its best that we let it go and not make a big deal out of it.

This set the stage for an interesting exchange between him and Rajya Sabha MP Maulana Mahmood Madani. Madani told Musharraf: “There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan...Indian Muslims have the ability to solve their problems, don’t try to alienate them.” Musharraf retorted with a hint of sarcasm, “If you are happy in your present condition, I am most happy...I take back my words.”

It would be nice if folks posted both sides of the debate. This Maulana Madani piece reminds me of the youtube on Maulana Kakakhel going off on Musharraf and not showing Musharraf's most awesome rebuttal to him. Once you hear out both sides, then only you can decide on who put who in their place.

 

[SSGPA1]

Well it is your bloody loss not Musharraf's.

 

[Bhishma]

It would be nice if folks posted both sides of the debate. This Maulana Madani piece reminds me of the youtube on Maulana Kakakhel going off on Musharraf and not showing Musharraf\\'s most awesome rebuttal to him. Once you hear out both sides, then only you can decide on who put who in their place.

Musharraf\\\'s reply was a cheap evasion of the Maulana\\\'s point.

The Maulana didn\\\'t claim that Indian muslims had no problems or were happy with their condition. He simply asked Musharraf to stop shedding crocodile tears and use the problems of muslims in India to further his own agendas in the name of caring for them.

Pakistan, as the country which is probably one of the most unsafe place for muslims on the planet, has no moral authority to advise other countries.

 

[SSGPA1]

Here is the youtube video where Madani made those remarks to Musharraf. Watch Musharaff's face turn from red to pal

No t fair at all that you posted only that brown noser, where is Musharraf's repsonse?

 

[blain2]

Musharraf\'s reply was a cheap evasion of the Maulana\'s point.

The Maulana didn\'t claim that Indian muslims had no problems or were happy with their condition. He simply asked Musharraf to stop shedding crocodile tears and use the problems of muslims in India to further his own agendas in the name of caring for them.

And how do you know about these crocodile tears? Do you think that people in Pakistan have no relatives in India? Do you think that people in Pakistan are oblivious to the issues faced by the Muslims in India? My friend, there are many reasons for concerns in Pakistan for the Indian Muslims.

If anything, its the Maulana who is pandering to the crowd and getting "shaabash" on the back.

 

[roopesh]

Do we need Sharia rule? or our Muslims ruled by Talibans? Dont Mushrraf see how much Muslims are struggling in the hands of Talibanis.

 

[Bhishma]

And how do you know about these crocodile tears? Do you think that people in Pakistan have no relatives in India? Do you think that people in Pakistan are oblivious to the issues faced by the Muslims in India? My friend, there are many reasons for concerns in Pakistan for the Indian Muslims.

60 years of support for all sorts of separatist and terrorist movements in India is ample proof that Pakistanis care only for the advancement of their own agenda. If Pakistanis cared about Indian muslims, they would not train Jehadis to run amok in kashmir. If Pakistanis cared about Indian muslims, they wouldn\\\\\\\'t use their intellgence agency to blast bombs and cause havoc in India. They wouldn\\\\\\\'t harbour fugitives like Dawood Ibrahim.

40 muslims were killed in the 26/11 terror attacks by Pakistanis who claimed to be fighting for the rights of muslims in India. It is absurd that any Indian muslim would fall for this crap.

If anything, its the Maulana who is pandering to the crowd and getting "shaabash" on the back.

Its your inability to accept the fact that a muslim would openly speak out in favour of India, that forces you to make such conclusions.

Because it flies in the face of the idea behind Pakistan - that Hindus and Muslims cannot live together.

Perhaps he is pandering to the crowd, but even if that is true, he would not be able to do such a thing without widespread support from his support base, and the crowd behind him (who you admit did give him a \\\\\\\"shabash\\\\\\\")

 

[blain2]

Do we need Sharia rule? or our Muslims ruled by Talibans? Dont Mushrraf see how much Muslims are struggling in the hands of Talibanis.

I pray, do tell us how much we are struggling against what amounts to less than 1% of Pakistan's population of 160 million. Whether people want sharia rule or not is up to them to decide. This is the reason that aside from the historically tribal areas of Pakistan, nobody is rushing to embrace the village Mullah's version of Sharia (and by this I am not denigrating Sharia, rather the mentality of the village Mullah). Sharia is the right of the Muslims. When they feel they are ready for it, they will demand it and get it.

Lastly, Sharia does not always equal Taliban rule.

 

[Bhishma]

Sharia is the right of the Muslims. When they feel they are ready for it, they will demand it and get it.

Lastly, Sharia does not automatically equal Taliban rule.

Sharia is the downfall of muslims.

Edit: sorry, I mistook you for another moderator.

 

[blain2]

60 years of support for all sorts of separatist and terrorist movements in India is ample proof that Pakistanis care only for the advancement of their own agenda. If Pakistanis cared about Indian muslims, they would not train Jehadis to run amok in kashmir. If Pakistanis cared about Indian muslims, they wouldn\\'t use their intellgence agency to blast bombs and cause havoc in India. They wouldn\\'t harbour fugitives like Dawood Ibrahim.

May make sense for you to read and then ponder over the point made by Musharraf wrt the role of intelligence agencies. Practice what you preach first. We learned the art of creating havoc from your political and security apparatus after the 1971 war. Your post is typical of the hypocrisy and ignorance that we have become so used to from many in India. We have documented proof of the mischief your great country is causing in Pakistan and all that is forgotten because in your mind, only you are the victim. We have list of people also that are on your payroll and are provided protection by no less than the Indian government. So wake up and smell the chai. Your India is not as good a boy scout as you may think it.

40 muslims were killed in the 26/11 terror attacks by Pakistanis who claimed to be fighting for the rights of muslims in India. It is absurd that any Indian muslim would fall for this crap.

And do you see anyone from Pakistan supporting the crackpots who killed all those innocent people? Why single out only the Muslim victims? The fact that those idiots could care less about killing Muslims or non-Muslims is the main issue here. So how do you tie the dots and put it on Pakistan and Pakistanis all that is going on? You guys are instigating in Afghanistan, you are suppressing in Kashmir, there is an active war going on in Afghanistan (which means a never-ending supply of trained and motivated manpower), so make sure that you understand who you are blaming before you pull the trigger.

Its your inability to accept the fact that a muslim would openly speak out in favour of India, that forces you to make such conclusions.

Because it flies in the face of the idea behind Pakistan - that Hindus and Muslims cannot live together.

Perhaps he is pandering to the crowd, but even if that is true, he would not be able to do such a thing without widespread support from his support base, and the crowd behind him (who you admit did give him a \"shabash\")

It is not my inability to accept anything. In actuality, it is my first hand knowledge of the kind of issues Muslims face in India that I say what I say. You folks can put on the greatest show on earth and say that all is fine and the world will believe you, however you see in Pakistan we have families who have families in India and they keep in touch and get to know what all is transpiring and based on that flow of information, I can tell you that all is not well.

Secondly, there is not one person in Pakistan who wishes any ill on the Muslims in India. There is absolutely no reason for people in Pakistan to ever want to see a repeat of the Gujrat pogrom. This is something that you will never understand but when the mess in Gujrat happened, our Pakistani hearts cried for the people there and there was nothing for us to gain in their misery.

Thirdly, a lot of you Indians need to get over the thinking that Pakistanis somehow are in some sort of a denial about Indian Muslims and Hindus getting along. We don't have a reason to see the Muslims not get along with their compatriots in majority. Pakistanis want the Indian Muslims to get integrated so they get equal opportunities as are available to the Hindus. Our sole gripe is that you have not done justice with them. Maybe you are on the right track and then there will be justice for them, however for now, there are considerable problems and for you to try to shut us up by saying that you do not have a right to take up the case of the Indian Muslims is just crass! Every time something bad happens to a Pakistani hindu, rightfully so too you folks make sure that it gets all the press possible. So what is the problem with us doing the same?

Lastly, Pakistanis are not as much concerned about the state of the Muslims in India proper as we are with the situation of the Kashmiri Muslims in IoK. Indian Muslims have no right to tell Pakistan to back off of that (due to their own domestic political reasons), because Pakistan has a stake in this issue and is party to the conflict. The fact that Kashmiris are still not reconciled to the Indian rule is an indication that they are not happy and regardless of what you say, they do want Pakistan to champion their case. As such we do with conviction knowing that we owe it to them.

 

[blain2]

Sharia is the downfall of muslims.

You are entitled to your opinion. Many Muslims feel otherwise.

 

[third eye]

To give the Devil his due, Mush did well by coming to attend the conclave. It took guts to stand in front of an audience who he knew was intending to tear him apart.. and they did.

It does not matter who said what to whom. What matters is whom to trust & how far ?

As far as Mush is concerned , he is a man who:

1. Cheated on the man who made him the COAS over 3- 4 seniors whom he superseded by doing a kargil while he was talking peace in Lahore.

2. Who usurped power by sacking a legitimately elected govt & did what Zia did to Bhutto..i.e to bite the hand that fed him.

I wonder if it would have been acceptable to him if a Lt or Major had disobeyed a command given to him by his superior in the chain of command. If not then why should he be trusted ?



Though I feel under the circumstances he was the best man for India to do business with not coz of his intentions but coz the was / is no one else on the horizon.

A reformed convict makes a good preacher.. but how much of it does he " actually ' believe ?