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we cannot defeat isis without defeating the wahhabi theology that birthed it

Most Deobandis are actually believers in peace and Islam. Deobandis are about 20% of Pakistan's population, for God's sake. TTP are extremists within that - they don't represent Deobandis any more than they represent Islam.

Now, if you have any understanding at all of what you are talking about, you would realize that the point I was making was that the TTP can not be Wahabi because they claim to be Hanafis - 'Wahabis', by definition, are ghair-muqallids, i.e they don't follow any of the four schools including the Hanafi school.


You don't know what you are talking about, do yourself a favour and stop talking about things you do not understand.

Salafis are about 100 Million of the world's Muslim population. If 100 Million Salafis were terrorists, we would all be too dead to be talking about this.

As for Salafis' actual stance on terrorism, read this: http://www.abukhadeejah.com/wp-cont...ad_ISIS_2014_Final_1_With_Bleed_No_Border.pdf


There is no such thing. There are many types of people who are labelled 'Wahabis', though very, very few of them actually call themselves that. Abdul Wahab was a scholar in the 1700s who strongly opposed what he called innovations in Islam. Honestly, a lot of his ideas are perfectly reasonable. He was opposed to the notion of 'Pirs' (a kind of 'spiritual leaders'; many of them are actual pious scholars, but there are many who simply take advantage of peoples' superstitions and don't have any basis in Islam) and 'Saints' being worshiped as though they were divine - however, he took it to the extreme through takfir, i.e outright declaring groups of Muslims to be non-Muslims.

He did not, however, have anything to do with suicide bombing or the type of violence we're seeing today.

But nowadays, the 'Wahabi' label is being expanded. It has become: "a blanket term used inaccurately to refer to "any Islamic movement that has an apparent tendency toward misogyny, militantism, extremism, or strict and literal interpretation of the Quran and hadith".

The label is also being incorrectly applied to all Salafis/Ghair Muqallids (i.e those who don't follow any of the mainstream four schools of thought and instead refer directly to the Quran and Hadith) and even Deobandis (even though they follow the Hanafi school, which is one of the four schools).

What is 'neo-Wahabi' even supposed to mean? New followers of Abdul Wahab? None of ISIS's statements or publications or anything identify them as followers of Abdul Wahab. You could argue they are similar in the sense that they are Salafis, but they also go against the Quran and Hadith - they are 'Islamic' only in name.

ISIS do whatever they want. They don't care about Wahab or Salafism (or any Islamic principles for that matter).


Well, one major division is Shia-Sunni. After that, within Sunnism there are four schools of thought, Hanafi, Shafii, Maliki and Hanbali. Within the Hanafi school exist Barelvis and Deobandis, who are at odds with eachother.

The Shias have their own different sects based on the 12 Infallible Imams and concepts that simply do not exist in Sunni Islam or the Quran (but they can be ''inferred'' through interpretations).

That's the gist of the situation - if you want more detail, do your own research.

Oh bhai jaan, Deobandis and Wahabis are about 20% of Pakistan. If they were a ''death cult'', you and I would be dead by now.

As for 'Sufis', which Sufis? I know of many supposed 'Sufi Scholars' who engage in sectarian hate-speech and takfir. Most of these supposed Sufi scholars (Barelvis) also support the un-Islamic Blasphemy Law.

Saying all Salafis/Wahabis/Deobandis are terrorists is the same as saying all Muslims are terrorists - we criticize non-Muslims for generalizing but then generalize among ourselves.

As for looking at them critically, that's been happening for hundreds of years now.
Excellent post, and deserve positive rating, :( Heck I can't give you that.

Right now I should not make any comment now, because I am still learning ISLAM. Could you provide me some link, which could explain me ISLAM easily. Got some website, but I am finding it difficult, to understand, and need some startup site, so that later I could go on detail.

The intention of my post was to point out it could be posibilities that the Quranic versis and the Hadith could be misunderstood, or bad translation, which could change the real meaning. E.G in Koran the use of the word when translated from Arabic is the terror in the mind who don't follow allah guidelines --- the use of terror might be wrongly quoted and interpreted, why would Allah would used terror, it might mean the respect, or any other meaning.

I am a Hindu, and I am proud of it, and know properly, how the hindus have changed various things, the VEDAS are source of the Hindus ideology, and its meaning is the Knowledge. The language of the VEDs are such that, it don't explain anything directly, and Hindu is not any religion, infact Sanathan Dharma is the right Religion.
 
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@Arsalan mehmud I told you you were blindly repeating what Barelvi molvis say and you just copy-pasted their words instead. That's not an improvement.

Anyway, there is so much falsehood and so many contradictions in these statements - I'll present a few examples.

No, the punishment for insulting the Prophet (s.a.w) is not death. The Prophet himself forgave most of those people who insulted him, and the Quran says:

"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme." [Qur'an 4:140]
"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you." [Qur'an 28: 55]
"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]
"Have patience with what they say, and leaves them with noble (dignity)." [Qur'an 73:10]
"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Qur'an 25:63]
"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [Qur'an 16: 128]
". . . But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Qur'an 9:47]

And this is what the Hadith say:
"Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 61 :
Narrated by 'Aisha

A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet (and when they were admitted) they said, "As-Samu 'Alaika (Death be upon you)." I (Aisha) said (to them), "But death and the curse of Allah be upon you!" The Prophet said, "O 'Aisha! Allah is kind and lenient and likes that one should be kind and lenient in all matters." I (Aisha) said, "Haven't you heard what they said?" He said, "I said (to them), 'Wa 'Alaikum (and upon you)."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 60 :
Narrated by Anas bin Malik

A Jew passed by Allah's Apostle and said, "As-Samu 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle said in reply, "We 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle then said to his companions, "Do you know what he (the Jew) has said? He said, 'As-Samu 'Alaika.'" They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we kill him?" The Prophet, said, "No. When the people of the Book greet you, say: 'Wa 'Alaikum.'"

The people who were executed were executed for their other crimes, including treason against the state - not Blasphemy.

And there is no mention of any executions inside the Haram Sharif in any Hadith. If you have reference from any Hadith (preferably Sahih), please provide it to me.

The Prophet (s.a.w) himself denied the death penalty for Blasphemy - so, according to the Barelvi Logic you just copy-pasted, he himself is an Infidel (Astaghfirullah).

The part I highlighted in Red is a clear example of Takfir - how can these people criticize Deobandis for Takfir when they themselves practice Takfir?

Okay, there is no mention of Meelad in Wahabi Masaajids - I want you to give me one mention of it in the Quran or Hadith. There is none.


Please provide evidence from the Quran and Hadith that these Shrines and Saints are a part of Islam.

I have no problem with having pious people and praying for them at their graves or ''shrines''. I do have a problem when you say they are a part of Islam. Nobody can declare something to be obligatory in Islam if Allah or the Prophet himself has not declared it to be obligatory. Shrines are not obligatory.


The rest of it is attacks and counter-attacks on particular scholars. I don't follow any one of those scholars, so I will not be involved in that.

By the way, you have not given a single proof of Wahhabism being involved in Terrorism. This entire Paragraph talks about unrelated matters, such as the Meelad and Shrines. Nothing to do with Terrorism.

And they criticise 'Wahabis' for not supporting the Blasphemy law. That makes it look like the opposite of what you were previously saying.

I maintain that you, sir, have no idea what you are talking about.


I looked up SUNNI WORLD. Here is what I found on their page:


Only people of 'Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat' are allowed, everyone else is ''Badh mazhab'' - that is the same thing as Takfir and ''Holier than Thou''.

Munafiqat ki hadd hoti hai.
Really speaking I follow Sunni.. But the day wahhabi arrived in this world brought no good to Islam..I can't debate much on Hadith as only a proper aalim can do that..
But as a part of history when I look behind 200-300 years than I saw only the the ill activities against Islam..
Just see past history of saudi arabia the only country in world whole family name is given..
All seikh and saud family are involved in haram works consuming alcohols, behaving as upper cast towards asian muslims and becoming slaves when they saw any americans..
They don't care about muslims around the globe..No affection..
They don't care for muslims in palestine..or masjide aqsa..
They don't even care to spill bloods in makkah when they attack ottomon empire..khalifa rule which was establish by our prophet mohammad..
Jews cast **** movie of our prophet mohammad.. Saudi even don't criticize that..as if nothing has happened..
They recently handshake Narendra modi whose hand is wet of muslims blood..
They only want to rule arabs and enjoy royal life in short....

Regarding shrine no were it is written that it is abolished..Have heard many times in mosque by Imams that a single moment of waliallah has better than thousand days prayers.. and I do believe that..

There are many negetive points of wahhabi.. but I still believe them as brothers and allah will guide them.. Amin..

ISIS is proxy war for CIA and Mossad (Israeli Secret Intelligence Service).



Stop speading false information...........
Mohammad ibn Abdul wahab has done a great job to stop [eople from committing shrik and bidat (read the history or listen to audio lecture of Mufti Mohammad Saeed)


This Wahabi term came from British Indian Government who paid their molvi Ahmad Raza Khan to spread it. Why didn't they call him by his first name "Mohammad"? why use his father name?
British knew that even a iletrate Muslim know who is "Mohammad (saw)" So they couldn't use Mohamad to defame him so they used "Wahab" not his father's full Name Abdul Wahab, just wahab and made "wahabi" from it.


Listen to Mufti Zar Wali Khan

Better read about ashraf ali thanvi...what is his teaching instead of arguing me.. Wahab was alcoholic man and acts on british spy hemfere
By the way we are just seeing what saudis are doing in arabs..I mean saud family.. they eat drink alcohols.. marrying 20 to 30 girls.. even purchasing girls from pakistan India and bangladesh..

I too against shirk and I only believe allah is only one..and he is the only one who sent prophets and wali-allah and we must respect them all..
I don't mean to hurt you but I am very sad when I see arabs country aiyyasi and country like somaliya dying each day for food.. that what wahhabi ideology has given.. may allah guide you..

Copies of Holy Quran found in street drains in Saudi city | Riyadh Connect
 

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Really speaking I follow Sunni.. But the day wahhabi arrived in this world brought no good to Islam..I can't debate much on Hadith as only a proper aalim can do that..
But as a part of history when I look behind 200-300 years than I saw only the the ill activities against Islam..
Just see past history of saudi arabia the only country in world whole family name is given..
All seikh and saud family are involved in haram works consuming alcohols, behaving as upper cast towards asian muslims and becoming slaves when they saw any americans..
They don't care about muslims around the globe..No affection..
They don't care for muslims in palestine..or masjide aqsa..
They don't even care to spill bloods in makkah when they attack ottomon empire..khalifa rule which was establish by our prophet mohammad..
Jews cast **** movie of our prophet mohammad.. Saudi even don't criticize that..as if nothing has happened..
They recently handshake Narendra modi whose hand is wet of muslims blood..
They only want to rule arabs and enjoy royal life in short....

Regarding shrine no were it is written that it is abolished..Have heard many times in mosque by Imams that a single moment of waliallah has better than thousand days prayers.. and I do believe that..

There are many negetive points of wahhabi.. but I still believe them as brothers and allah will guide them.. Amin..


Better read about ashraf ali thanvi...what is his teaching instead of arguing me.. Wahab was alcoholic man and acts on british spy hemfere
By the way we are just seeing what saudis are doing in arabs..I mean saud family.. they eat drink alcohols.. marrying 20 to 30 girls.. even purchasing girls from pakistan India and bangladesh..

I too against shirk and I only believe allah is only one..and he is the only one who sent prophets and wali-allah and we must respect them all..
I don't mean to hurt you but I am very sad when I see arabs country aiyyasi and country like somaliya dying each day for food.. that what wahhabi ideology has given.. may allah guide you..

Copies of Holy Quran found in street drains in Saudi city | Riyadh Connect

You can't compare Apple with Oranges....

We know the history of Arabia and British India.

British had their agents in Arabia who worked against ottomans Empire while British had Molvi Ahmad Raza Khan and Gulam Ahamad Qadiani as their agents in British India to destroy Islam.

Mohamad ibn Abdul Wahab (r.a) protected islam and destroyed those who are committing shirk and bidat. Stop ranting and read the history or Islam. May Allah (swt) protect you.

Wahab was alcoholic man and acts on british spy hemfere

Don't make statement that you will have no Asnwer for it on the day of judgement.

No one is claiming the Saudi leadership or Saudi Royal family members are perfect Muslim, they are part of New World Order (NWO). There is difference in Politics and Religious.

All the mazar should be shut down......no more urs and bidati practices, these are not part of Islam and should not be practice in Pakistan. All these Jali Peer Babas should be in the jail. all the fake spiritual healers should be caught and put in jail, time for operation clean up.
 
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You can't compare Apple with Oranges....

We know the history of Arabia and British India.

British had their agents in Arabia who worked against ottomans Empire while British had Molvi Ahmad Raza Khan and Gulam Ahamad Qadiani as their agents in British India to destroy Islam.

Mohamad ibn Abdul Wahab (r.a) protected islam and destroyed those who are committing shirk and bidat. Stop ranting and read the history or Islam. May Allah (swt) protect you.



Don't make statement that you will have no Asnwer for it on the day of judgement.

No one is claiming the Saudi leadership or Saudi Royal family members are perfect Muslim, they are part of New World Order (NWO). There is difference in Politics and Religious.

All the mazar should be shut down......no more urs and bidati practices, these are not part of Islam and should not be practice in Pakistan. All these Jali Peer Babas should be in the jail. all the fake spiritual healers should be caught and put in jail, time for operation clean up.
British had their agents in Arabia who worked against ottomans Empire while British had Molvi Ahmad Raza Khan their agents in British India to destroy Islam..
Ohh you will not go to allah or will be present in judgement day...Please give me reference for above claim first.....
 
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Just a muslim. Thanks.


Surely we cannot ignore the atrocities Wahabis have committed in the name of purifying Pakistan. Why do most terrorists come from these schools of thought? I believe wahabis have a major role in fanaticizing society. Once you begin to declare people kaffir or infidel you never stop-it starts with others and ends with proper sunni muslims.

What gives Ibn Abdul Wahab the right to declare others infidel, desecrate the prophets grave and rape women. The man was a kharijite and enemy of Islam. I agree there may be people in other sects with the same problem but the majority come from Wahabi seminaries-almost all terrorists are from this hardline group of terrorists.

WTH are you talking about? Have you lost your senses?

@TankMan What is this guy ranting about?
 
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WTH are you talking about? Have you lost your senses?

@TankMan What is this guy ranting about?
Comeon. You don't expect there to be no criticism of a sect that has caused immense damage to the religion and the people. We now think like robots and are in the hands of arrogant mullahs. Even if you do not agree with me you should think critically of wahabism. Locked in our various sects we fail to look at the evil of some sects. I am a major supporter of the muta'zilites.
 
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Comeon. You don't expect there to be no criticism of a sect that has caused immense damage to the religion and the people. We now think like robots and are in the hands of arrogant mullahs. Even if you do not agree with me you should think critically of wahabism. Locked in our various sects we fail to look at the evil of some sects. I am a major supporter of the muta'zilites.

Mr.A.A. You need to keep your delusions and rantings under a tight lid, and not comment on things you are clueless about.
 
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