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'We are not going to amend' blasphemy laws, Pakistani PM says

So wat are your suggestions to ammend the blasphemy law coz as far as I know their is written in that law that any one who uses abusive language for the prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should be put to death and their are punishments if any one insults any other religion's holy personalities... what else you want ??

If all religions fall under the current blasphemy law, then that doesn't need changing.

The punishment by death is much too extreme and won't ever be used. A lot of people don't think this is a legitimate punishment for blasphemy.

A fine, perhaps a substantial fine depending how much the person earns, would be enough to deter them.

But since these are words, it's very difficult to prove someone said them, or the circumstances that made them say so.

If someone drew cartoons like in the Jyllands-Posten case, you could certainly prosecute them because you know they did it with the intention to cause offence. That would be a perfect use of the blasphemy law.
 
If all religions fall under the current blasphemy law, then that doesn't need changing.

The punishment by death is much too extreme and won't ever be used. A lot of people don't think this is a legitimate punishment for blasphemy.

A fine, perhaps a substantial fine depending how much the person earns, would be enough to deter them.

But since these are words, it's very difficult to prove someone said them, or the circumstances that made them say so.

If someone drew cartoons like in the Jyllands-Posten case, you could certainly prosecute them because you know they did it with the intention to cause offence. That would be a perfect use of the blasphemy law.

First of all the punishment of death is not extreme thats the only punishment we can give to any such maniac.. and for your other points judge is their to get evidences and they do not give capital punishment to any one for any reason... and I don't think they don't listen to circumstances what made any one spit those dirty words against our prophet....

if someone draw cartoons that falls under "Fasaad fil arz" and he must be dealt according to that...

one thing that should be added that is not to be added in the blasphemy law only and that is the punishment of the person who falsely accuse any one for doing blasphemy or any other crime... and that should be decided for consesus...
 
Adding the bit about anyone who can't prove the other person blasphemed should get the same punishment would work in this case. That would be execution in your case, so I would doubt any sane individual would bring a case of blasphemy to the court.

It will make people think twice before bringing such cases. How well it works in practice is a different matter.

There are many different interpretations about the punishment for blaspheming in Islam. I favour punishment through fines. If a person cannot prove his case irrefutably that the defendant blasphemed, then they get the same fine imposed on them. That too should work, provided it is irrefutable evidence of blasphemy, and not just witnesses.
 
A lot of people in my opinion, exaggerate the ‘Islamic threat’ posed by Pakistan. A lot of people sneer and look disparagingly at Pakistan’s Islamization. A lot of people think extremists will 'take over the central government of Pakistan.' In my opinion, yes extremism has increased in Pakistan, but it is MORE to do with the current events post 2001 in our western neighbor and its effects being felt here than Pakistan's 'policy of Islamization' (which obviously plays a role as well, but not as much as Afghanistan's destabilization contributes). I believe the Islamization of Pakistan served as a mere tool of unification than 'the actual implementation of Shariah Law'. Although the Blasphemy Law and the Hadood Ordinance were brought in by Zia (parts of Hadood Ordinance were amended, hopefully Blasphemy Law too will undergo that in the future), Pakistan has never really been an 'Islamic society' on any kind of level in any part of its history.


A lot of people also think it started from Zia-ul-Haq’s time. It reached an all-time peak in Zia’s time, but the seeds were sowed in the 1950’s in the 1956 Constitution for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. It was really brought into action during Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s time, where Ahmedis were declared non-Muslims constitutionally in 1973 and Pakistan started working on the ‘Muslim nuclear bomb’. It reached an all-time high during Zia’s time, when Saudi Arabia and USA along with Pakistan hosted ‘Wahabi’ Mujahideen camps that fought the Soviets: but the seeds of ‘Islamization’ were sowed earlier.


Was Pakistan wrong to ‘Islamize’? Should it have embraced a secular democracy, a model India did? The answer could be yes or no. Pakistan and India are ‘artificial’ countries. Before 1947, many states of India were ruled by their separate rulers, had separate languages, customs. Pakistan and India formed very fragmented countries in 1947. A lot of Indians and Western people sneer at Pakistan’s Islamization, and look up to India’s secular democracy. Both were right and wrong in their own ways. Pakistan and India took two very different paths in governance, and are seeing different results today.


Why did Pakistan Islamize? Because Pakistan felt it had to unify the Pakhtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Muhajirs in some way. They were culturally and ethnically different in every way, religion was the glue that stuck them together. Afghanistan and Afghani Pashtuns have always looked down on Pakistan and Pakistani Pakhtuns in a dream for ‘Pashtunistan’, Pakistani Balochis have always been dreaming of reuniting with their Iranian Balochi brothers, the Muhajirs & other immigrants always had a complex leaving their Indian homeland in 1947. Both Pakhtuns and Balochis are considered to be ‘puppets’ of the Punjabis, the people that ‘actually rule Pakistan’. Religion (and the ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’) was a means of homogenization, the glue that stuck these different ethnicities together.


After 1971, with Pakistan losing its huge chunk of territory, I believe the Pakistani establishment started used Islam as a unification tool (& a means to get back at India), as a means to appease and unify the different ethnicities together, seeing that Balochistan and NWFP might follow East Pakistan to form independent nations from ‘Punjabized’ Pakistan. And despite a lot of problems Pakistan faces today, a recent Gallup poll in Pakistan conducted over various parts of Pakistan concluded that “The nation-state is of great significance to Pakistanis, and despite important ethnic and regional differences, national identity is strong throughout the country. Overall, 89% say they think of themselves first as Pakistani, rather than as a member of their ethnic group.” I believe that in India, most (or a lot) people consider their ethnic identity over their national identity.


India took a riskier and bolder approach of a secular democracy, which caused (and is still causing) it great distress in terms of unification and uneven ‘fortunes’ in its different states (for e.g, compare Gujarat with UP, Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand, Orissa etc), but it is also reaping its rewards. But despite its economic boom, it still has over 450 million people living below the Indian poverty line of $1.25. It still has over 130 separatist insurgency movements, while Pakistan has 4, coming from Balochistan. The separatist movements in the 7 sister states, the rise of Maoists from Orissa-West Bengal all the way to Maharashtra-Andhra Pradesh and even parts of Tamil Nadu shows the risks of the ‘lack of homogenization and unification’ India has implemented by following the secular democracy model. Pakistan has in the past even managed to cause havoc in Indian administered Kashmir by using Islam and Muslim identity. Bangladesh is said to be causing havoc in NE India with its 'Islamization' as well.


Pakistan has (rightly or wrongly) appeased to the wishes of the Pakhtuns, giving them the right to self governance in FATA (which is now a huge problem for Pakistan), and even renamed NWFP as Khyber Pakhtunkhwan, which has hurt the sentiments of other minority groups in the province (such as Hazaras, Tajiks, Kalashas, Chitralis) to say the least. But as a result, there are no separatist movements in Khyber Pakhtunkhwan at the moment. But there is a problem of Islamic terrorism in the FATA region, as well as the risk of increasing extremism across the other parts of Pakistan; which is not really seen as much in India.


By adopting the secular democratic model, India is less prone to religious Islamic extremism, despite it having a whooping 130+ million Muslims in the country. It also results in a more diverse, free society accepting to minorities that focuses on development (a work in progress). But it also results in a more fragmented society in my opinion. India might have taken the riskier approach, but the greater risks one takes, the more rewards they get. Time will tell what the fate of Pakistan and India is.


Pakistani Public Opinion | Pew Global Attitudes Project
 
as if we care what the very tiny lil liberal section of our society say or believe in their assumed imaginary world.....:coffee:

hellooo, this law is going to stay and the dreams of repealing it should come to an end now ....:wave:

I am not a religious person but pakistanis are the biggest twisters of religion I have ever seen they act like liberal people are traitors or something but it's pakistan who is making islam look like a violent religion .Where in the koran does it say to kill someone who is critical of the prophet ? doesn't it say to debate with them in the best of ways or something ? and when did prphet himself do such a thing ? his mercy is well known this is a man who forgave people who threw trash at him everyday, who stoned him and waged war on him for years and he didn't harm a hair on their heads when he conquered them ! so if you seriously think the prophet (pbuh) who was the most merciful person in mankind would allow murder of someone just for criticizing him then you are a disgrace to islam and don't know the first thing about him.
I think if he were around today he would be disgusted at pakistan MURDERING and abusing minorities in the name of "protecting" his honour.Pakistanis must be the weakest muslims ever that they are unable to convince critics of islams beauty or have a civil debate with them but instead make it legal to kill them a law thats become so stupid and been pushed to such an extreme that even throwing a business card in the bin with the name muhammed on it can be considered blasphemy and get one punished .How can we support a law which discriminates and ruins lives of so many of our own fellow pakistanis ? it's amazing and scary to me how so many people are such hardcore supporters of this law even on this forum !
SHAME ON YOU AND SHAME ON PAKISTAN ! :tdown::angry:
 
I am not a religious person but pakistanis are the biggest twisters of religion I have ever seen they act like liberal people are traitors or something but it's pakistan who is making islam look like a violent religion .Where in the koran does it say to kill someone who is critical of the prophet ? doesn't it say to debate with them in the best of ways or something ? and when did prphet himself do such a thing ? his mercy is well known this is a man who forgave people who threw trash at him everyday, who stoned him and waged war on him for years and he didn't harm a hair on their heads when he conquered them ! so if you seriously think the prophet (pbuh) who was the most merciful person in mankind would allow murder of someone just for criticizing him then you are a disgrace to islam and don't know the first thing about him.
I think if he were around today he would be disgusted at pakistan MURDERING and abusing minorities in the name of "protecting" his honour.Pakistanis must be the weakest muslims ever that they are unable to convince critics of islams beauty or have a civil debate with them but instead make it legal to kill them a law thats become so stupid and been pushed to such an extreme that even throwing a business card in the bin with the name muhammed on it can be considered blasphemy and get one punished .How can we support a law which discriminates and ruins lives of so many of our own fellow pakistanis ? it's amazing and scary to me how so many people are such hardcore supporters of this law even on this forum !
SHAME ON YOU AND SHAME ON PAKISTAN ! :tdown::angry:

nice speech..........:rolleyes:
 
nice speech..........:rolleyes:

Do you realize the magnitude of taking an innocent life ? this law makes it way too acceptable it's all based on hearsay it's so stupid you can't even repeat it again in court because that would illegal too pretty insanse don't you think ?
Yes nice speech indeed because it's something that i feel very strongly about and i don't want my pakistani brothers and sisters to suffer under this law .I noticed you didn't refute a single thing i said either coz i'm sure deep down you know it's true.
It's a shame people like you can't even see the damage it's done to innocent people's lives so brainwashed by the mullahs you haven't even bothered to find out if this blasphemy law actually has a basis from the prophet(pbuh)'s example or permission in the koran which it DOES NOT .:hitwall:
 
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Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan's prime minister pledged on Monday the government will not change the country's controversial blasphemy laws.
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no one can rely on what this joker says
 
Government have to take decesion in accordance with what majority of Pakistani people wants
.
one can easily extract some material from Quran Shareef in favour of ending this law or taking fatwa from some maulanaz in favour of ending this law

but people of Pakistan cannot move their hearts
they want this law
and also if governmnet end this law this will end PPPs rule i must say
people wont vote them next time
 
As a liberal person, i would like to see this law repealed but it think that we need to accept this bitter reality that the majority people support it. Ammending it will result in a back lash.So what should we do? We have already wasted a lot of energy on this but no solution so far. I think we should adopt a middle path i.e stop it's misuse. The idea of top advisory council is something which in my opinion is very balanced.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-cii-proposed-death-blasphemy-law-misuse.html

It's not the best solution but it's the best possible solution.I know that minorities will not like it but right now it's better to make sure that this law is not misused. We also need some law to protect minorities specially.
Next step should be develop a consensus at national level through debate. This law can only be repealed if majority accepts it. So far they are not accepting it so we can't push it any further. The point is to keep the issue alive and educate people about it.
 
Again the Mullahs have won. People say Pakistan isn't ruled by Mullahs but indirectly it is. And Malik Mumtaz Qadri is never going to get hanged either, watch what the mullahs would do if he did.

Aashiq! I understand your feelings. Being a Pakistan minority, i know you feel threatened. We need time and patience right now. Biggest let down was the support of moderates to blasphemy law and to change their mindset about it, we need time and continuous debate.

Sorry we failed you today but with time i am sure people will see some sense. Don't lose your hope yet.

Qadri will be hanged for sure. Taseer belonged to an influential family and his family will not let this happen.Secondly, I have full trust in Pakistan judicial system. I am sure that Taseer family and Asia will get justice.
 
so PM also gave up on Jinnahs pakistan not surprised any way it will take a man who loves pakistan to take a stance against blasphemy laws :: found this article quoting MA Jinnah on various occasions speaking for minorities ::




Jinnah’s Pakistan?
Ardeshir Cowasjee

THE following excerpts beg comments from all those who have been or are now occupying the power seats of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

From Mohammad Ali Jinnah`s presidential address at the All-India Muslim League session in Delhi in April 1943: “The minorities are entitled to get a definite assurance or to ask: `Where do we stand in the Pakistan that you visualise?` That is an issue of giving a definite and clear assurance to the minorities. We have done it. We have passed a resolution that the minorities must be protected and safeguarded to the fullest extent, and as I said before, any civilised government will do it and ought to do it. So far as we are concerned, our own history and our prophet have given the clearest proof that non-Muslims have been treated not only justly and fairly but generously.” (Rizwan Ahmed, ed., Sayings of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah , Karachi: Pakistan Movement Center, 1986, p. 30.)

While discussing Pakistan in an interview given to a representative of the Associated Press of America on November 8, 1946: “Hindu minorities in Pakistan can rest assured that their rights will be protected. No civilised government can be run successfully without giving minorities a complete sense of security and confidence. They must be made to feel that they have a hand in government and to this end must have adequate representation in it. Pakistan will give it.”

(Ahmed, Sayings , p. 65.)

In Jinnah`s interview given to a Reuters correspondent on May 21, 1947, he assured the minorities of Pakistan “that they will be protected and safeguarded. For they will be so many citizens of Pakistan without any distinction of caste or creed.” He had no doubt in his mind that they “will be treated justly and fairly and the collective conscience of parliament itself will be a guarantee that the minorities need not have any apprehension of any injustice being done to them.”

(Sailesh Bandopadhaya, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah and the Creation of Pakistan , New Delhi: Sterling Publishers, 1991, p. 326.)

From Jinnah`s address to the Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947: “We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community — because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on — will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls, in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed, that has got nothing to do with the business of the state…. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country, and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the nation. Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state.” ( Dawn , Independence Day Supplement, August 14, 1999.)

Jinnah`s interview with a Reuter`s correspondent on October 25, 1947: “Every citizen is expected to be loyal to the state and to owe allegiance to it. The arm of the law should be strong enough to deal with any person or section or body or people that is disloyal to the state. We do not, however, prescribe any schoolboy tests of their loyalty. We shall not say to any Hindu citizen of Pakistan: if there is war would you shoot a Hindu?” (Ahmed, Sayings , p. 42.)

Jinnah`s broadcast to the people of Australia on February 19, 1948: “The great majority of us are … members of the Muslim brotherhood of Islam in which we are equal in right, dignity and self respect. Consequently we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. Islam demands from us the tolerance of other creeds and we welcome in closest association with us all those who, of whatever creed, are themselves willing and ready to play their part as true and loyal citizens of Pakistan.” (Ahmed, Sayings , p. 69.)
 
Government have to take decesion in accordance with what majority of Pakistani people wants
.
one can easily extract some material from Quran Shareef in favour of ending this law or taking fatwa from some maulanaz in favour of ending this law

but people of Pakistan cannot move their hearts
they want this law
and alsoif governmnet end this law this will end PPPs rule i must say
people wont vote them next time

wow even better than ! kill two birds with one stone get rid of this law and get rid of the PPP morons at the same time :yahoo:
 
If the blasphemy law is amended to afford protection to all religions, then Jinnah's vision is maintained.

As has already been stated, the law needs to be tightened so that it is not abused for personal vendettas or trivial cases and only the most egregious cases are prosecuted. And the punishment needs to be toned down.

Then it would be no different than existing hate speech laws in the West.
 
The Blasphemy law serves no purpose but to give Pakistan bad PR worldwide, which is exactly what Indians want.
 
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