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This 'Maratha' bullshat is tripe. It's mostly revisionist history designed to bloat Hindoo
I will have to dispute this. The British had to fight 3 full scale wars to finish them off. The first of which was practically a draw with the Marathas actually having some advantages.
True, they never matched the grandeur of the Mughal Empire.
 
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ONe scholar said - after every 100 years - any empire get the situation of collapse .

Mughal Empire was under the khilafah- Yearly they had to pay continental TAX to the central.

If you search on gooolge ( Today now Indians and Jews are controlling it with muchmore false information- ) They said - Aurangzeb was largely responsible for the downfall of the
empire.
This is just a crap :) basically - it's Akbar- who gave access the East -india comapy what his father and grandfather Denied to do- he DID it . Which man can do 500 marriage and make a new religion. It is possible for him.

Bahadur Shah Zafar, who was proclaimed as the Emperor of Hindustan by the rebels, was defeated and imprisoned by the British on 11 September 1857, and exiled subsequently to Rangoon (Yangon) in Myanmar, thus bringing down the curtains on the 331 years old Mughal dynasty.

Why Declined-

1-

Wars of Succession-
2-
Empty Treasury
3-
Size of the Empire and Challenge from Regional Powers-
4-
Western Conspiracy to destroy it to make weak the central khilafah.



Blaming The last ruler of Mughal Empire is just a BLUF and Stupidity-

The Mughal Empire was a royal Muslim imperial power of the Indian subcontinent which began in the late 17th and early 18th centuries. It was said to be the first large empire in India since the Gupta Empire. It is approved by many scholars that the Mughal empire was the greatest, richest and most long-lasting Muslim dynasty to rule India. The Mughal emperors, with few exceptions, were among the world's most creative minded rulers, they were famous for the creation and management of one of the greatest empires. The extended existence of the Mughal empire can be contributed to a number of factors. The Mughal Empire gave the history of India a chapter full of great accomplishments and massive power. Unfortunately, due to the irreparable mistakes of the Mughal emperors such as Aurangzeb, all of that great accomplishments was simply gone with the wind.

The Mughal Empire reached its utmost level in the time of the most powerful Aurangzeb; the last great Mughal emperor. He ruled a large landmass in India which was under the Mughal rule. "Aurangzeb also expanded the borders of the Mughal Empire to the point where effective governing was nearly impossible." (Puzak, 2005). Aurangzeb, was much more traditional in his Islamic practices. He reinstituted the jizya, or tax on non-believers on the Hindu majority and destroyed their temples, he didn't allow any Hindu festivals to take place, Hindus had to pay taxes to visit their holy sites, and singing and dancing in general was forbidden. Aurangzeb was more concerned in promoting Islam than maintaining stability in the empire, and religious tension between Hindus and Muslims increased; he encouraged the studying of Islam and discouraged other religions. The main causes of rebellion were political, not only religious. Aurangzeb religious policies surely did not lend a hand to his empire, but they were not sufficient to cause the whole empire to fall into decline. One of the major causes that led to the decline of the Mughal Empire was the weak successors that could not unite the huge empire after him. After the death of Aurangzeb, various provinces became independent of the central Authority. Therefore, gradually the Mughal Empire have fallen apart. Before Aurangzeb's death, he left a will which he divided his empire between his successors. In spite of this, a war took place among his successors for the throne. The Mughal Empire was very powerful and strong. Unfortunately, after the death of Aurangzeb, the Mughal Empire shrunk. "A series of rulers came to power who were incapable of confronting the great wave of discontent that was then sweeping the empire." (Berinstain, 1997). All of the Mughal emperors were getting weaker and lacked the character, motivation and commitment to rule the empire strongly, and they were incapable to face the challenges and were unable to detain the declining empire from its fall.

All empires collapse eventually. But the Mughal Empire was weak structuarly and did not last for very long - in particular the high water mark was just a blip in history. The Mughal Empire was always fragile. The main reasons were -

  • it had no constituency or core population
  • it managed to rule a large area because the Hindu population was stratified along caste and ethnic cleavages
  • it was corrupt, decadent and debaucherous
  • it was almost a mega-scale mafia that extorted the population
  • it was like man balancing bricks on his head. One wrong push or shove and it would come crashing down bevause of it's inherent contradictions. A Turkic Muslim dynasty from Uzbekistan ruling South Asia, using Persian language over a patchwork of ethnic groups most of whom were Hindoo.
If you look at other empires they always had a core group that provided the foundation for everthing. The Ottomans relied on the Turks of Anatolia, the Romans on Roman citizens, the British Empire on English etc.

The Mughals never had a core group that could sustain and anchor the empire.

Agreed wid the 1st statement-
Disagreed wid some points what you made-
Core Population Theory states that there is an original Filipino race within the Philippines. And constituency distressed with the aggression of East- Indian conspiracy . We should mention it.

IF a Empire get the harsh struggle situation - then corruption theory doesn't exit.

Mafia . Yes- But it was outside job by the Throne Queen .

The mughal had never any core group? Its contradictory . 400 years ruling widout core group . Is it possible? Or logical ?

The Mughals were more interested in ruling and extorting money rather than plant the flag of Islam in the subcontinent, barring exceptions. They always faced resistance from the non Muslim population. Even then no major effort was made to actually bring them within the fold of Islam.

So why lokkan sen escaped ?

The ottoman solution was to kill their own brothers when they took the throne. Savage really.

Really ? What you see TV. Don't judge it with the reality- Sutan suliman drama made by a french movie maker.
 
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The British had to fight 3 full scale wars to finish them off.
Remind me who they were fighting with? Clues.

  • British Army
  • Trading company
The Marathas were fighting them on home turf against a few 'gorahs' million miles from home and you make it look like a bloody grand thing that they lasted 3 "full" wars.
 
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The biggest down fall of mughal empire was invasion by Persian empire under nadir shah he sacked Delhi
And weakened mughal empire enough that miscreants like marhata became real threat for mughal many peripheral provinces also declared independence from center using this weakness and then latter British also took advantage of mughal weaknesses
 
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Remind me who they were fighting with? Clues.

  • British Army
  • Trading company
The Marathas were fighting them on home turf against a few 'gorahs' million miles from home and you make it look like a bloody grand thing that they lasted 3 "full" wars.

You're understanding of 18th century warfare in india is limited.The nawab of bengal fought a few 'goras' at plassey.After the conquest of bengal and victory over awadh and mughals at buxar along with their possesions in the carnatic british army in india(company's army) was the most technically modern and quite large.It now had the land revenue of bengal,bihar,carnatic,orissa and control over the gunpowder trade.They recruited large numbers of bhumihars,purbia rajputs as sepoys in the bengal army which was the main instrument of expansion.These native sepoys were commanded by european officers.Other than that there were elite all european redcoat companies and the artillery was all european.
The french were defeated in the first carnatic war by 1760.Marathas and british fought for a decade from mid 1770s to mid 1780s with no result and stalemate.Reason marathas were able to hold them off was they had much more numbers,they fought united,they still had excellent leaders such as mahadji scindia and nana fadnavis.After this they had a 20 year truce,during which british finished off tipu.Marathas wanted tipu beaten,but not destroyed but british diplomatically outmanuevred them.By 1802 when 2nd war began both fadnavis and scidnia were dead.There was a internal dispute and peshwa took refuge with british and basically sold out by signing subsidiary alliance treaty which made marathas a defacto vassal .None of the marathas sardars fought together.They were defeated seperately,some didn't fight.British had an all time great general in wellington and he was almost defeated at assaye 1803.Wellington always spoke of assaye as even closer than waterloo.3rd war was a formality,mismatch was too much.

Basically any chance an indian empire had against a technologically far superior opponent was vastly more resources and manpower.But after conquest of bengal,bihar,orissa,carnatic,mysore british no longer suffered from any revenue or manpower shortage.

The biggest down fall of mughal empire was invasion by Persian empire under nadir shah he sacked Delhi
And weakened mughal empire enough that miscreants like marhata became real threat for mughal many peripheral provinces also declared independence from center using this weakness and then latter British also took advantage of mughal weaknesses

Mughals were already defeated by then more or less.Nadir shah came in 1739.Bajirao had already defeated mughal main army at bhopal in 1737 and raided delhi in same year.Nadir was final nail in coffin.

Thank you my brother it was quite informative [emoji3] so battle of panipat didn't destroy marathas completely but from the northern punjab. It is said that marathas had three fronts fighting at the time of panipat 3 so what about other 2 fronts what happend to them. And how much was strenght/influence of marathas after this battle?. I know that durranis and sikhs had fought a lot battles in present kpk and this assisted britain a lot and even sikhs sided with britain to fight against durranis and sikhs and britain were toghether for quite a time. And lastly how did marathas end and what about their battles with mughals prior to the death of aurangzeb ?

At panipat only half the maratha army was present,other half was in deccan.This was one of the reasons they were outnumbered in the battle.
As to why they lost -

1.Marathas were outmanuevred before the battle.Their hit and run tactics required very good commanders like bajirao to be successfully used in the flat plains of north India.The commander Sadashiv Bhau made a bad error in disregarding surajmal's(jat king) advice and took the entire civilian baggage train with the army slowing it to a crawl(you'll never see this with bajirao i).They got cut off from supplies and were burdened with additional mouths.The number of noncombatants was 4 times the number of soldiers.

After starving they fought a desperate action.The deccan ponies were not a match in quality for the central asian breeds and were starving on top of it.Giving advantage of speed and power to afghan cavalry.

2.Half the maratha army was in deccan under raghunathrao.Hence in the battle they had only half as many men as aghans .50,000 to 100,000.

3.Except for the elite troops maratha light cavalry had less armour than afghans.But even then the french trained telugu gardi musketeers and artillery under ibrahim gardi smashed the afghan left with huge casulities.Bhau's attack on the centre caused a crisis for the afghans ,but abdali was able to rally them.However holkar didn't press or support bhau and when the afghans counterattacked he left the battlefield.

4.The main tactical problem for marathas was the afghan camel mounted swivel cannons which were present in hundreds,once the battle came into close quarters these started firing into packed ranks and created chaos and marathas couldnt respond effectively.The maratha field guns had been very effective,particularly those under ibrahim gardi before the lines had made contact but now couldnt match the mobile light camel artillery.

5.Bhau was inexperienced commander compared to raghunathrao or holkar.He made wrong political choices and got himself killed in the battle by coming down from his elephant and charging into enemy lines.He was brave but not ready for such a post.

6.One of the biggest reasons is none of the indigeneous monarchs supported the marathas while both awadh and rohillas provided thousands of men for abdali .Bhau disregarded advice of surajmal,ignored the sikhs.As for the rajputs ,stupid maratha policies had alienated them.In the 1750s rampant raids by maratha sardars,extortion of money and internal interference in rajputanas politics led to marathas losing all goodwill.Thus the marathas entered the battle outnumbered for their own fault - alienating their own potential allies and keeping half their army in the deccan.


Yes.Marathas were expelled from punjab and never really returned there in force.When they returned 10 yrs later in 1771 they returned to rajputana,central india and delhi -doab.Punjab became battleground between durrani and sikhs.Sikhs eventually won later under ranjit singh,until in 1840 sikhs too were defeated by british.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/battle-report-20-palkhed-1728-bajirao-unleashed.465090/
Here i did a thread once on rise of marathas.Marathas were a powerful military force,but they weren't a proper empire due to decentralized nature and this led to constant infighting and bad administration.
 
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You're understanding of 18th century warfare in india is limited.The nawab of bengal fought a few 'goras' at plassey.After the conquest of bengal and victory over awadh and mughals at buxar along with their possesions in the carnatic british army in india(company's army) was the most technically modern and quite large.It now had the land revenue of bengal,bihar,carnatic,orissa and control over the gunpowder trade.They recruited large numbers of bhumihars,purbia rajputs as sepoys in the bengal army which was the main instrument of expansion.These native sepoys were commanded by european officers.Other than that there were elite all european redcoat companies and the artillery was all european.
The french were defeated in the first carnatic war by 1760.Marathas and british fought for a decade from mid 1770s to mid 1780s with no result and stalemate.Reason marathas were able to hold them off was they had much more numbers,they fought united,they still had excellent leaders such as mahadji scindia and nana fadnavis.After this they had a 20 year truce,during which british finished off tipu.Marathas wanted tipu beaten,but not destroyed but british diplomatically outmanuevred them.By 1802 when 2nd war began both fadnavis and scidnia were dead.There was a internal dispute and peshwa took refuge with british and basically sold out by signing subsidiary alliance treaty which made marathas a defacto vassal .None of the marathas sardars fought together.They were defeated seperately,some didn't fight.British had an all time great general in wellington and he was almost defeated at assaye 1803.Wellington always spoke of assaye as even closer than waterloo.3rd war was a formality,mismatch was too much.

Basically any chance an indian empire had against a technologically far superior opponent was vastly more resources and manpower.But after conquest of bengal,bihar,orissa,carnatic,mysore british no longer suffered from any revenue or manpower shortage.



Mughals were already defeated by then more or less.Nadir shah came in 1739.Bajirao had already defeated mughal main army at bhopal in 1737 and raided delhi in same year.Nadir was final nail in coffin.
I don't have time to give you full response but I can assure you I spent many a tedious lesson Mr Holmes A-Level history in 6th form in the fag end of 1970s. And most of it was on British history. British India figured heavily. So I do know a thing or two.

The fact of the matter is this. A trading company, much like McDonalds, Coca Cola with a few goras, million miles from home [literally because in those days it would take a precarios 6 month voyage by sea to South Asia from Britain] managed to conquerer the entirety of what is now Bangladesh, India, Myanmar and Pakistan. These are the sobering facts and no amount of wax lyrical will efface.
 
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it had no constituency or core population

Yes it did. Muslims who inhabited the region acted as their main force to rely on, and their empire was pretty much centred around what would now be called the Greater Punjab region.

They are the reason, we have people like you in our country, isn't that enough?

No, the Mughals were just the final push. Muslims exist in what is now the Republic of India thanks to the Delhi Sultanate, more specifically the Khiliji dynasty.
 
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I don't have time to give you full response but I can assure you I spent many a tedious lesson Mr Holmes A-Level history in 6th form in the fag end of 1970s. And most of it was on British history. British India figured heavily. So I do know a thing or two.

The fact of the matter is this. A trading company, much like McDonalds, Coca Cola with a few goras, million miles from home [literally because in those days it would take a precarios 6 month voyage by sea to South Asia from Britain] managed to conquerer the entirety of what is now Bangladesh, India, Myanmar and Pakistan. These are the sobering facts and no amount of wax lyrical will efface.

Yes,its is indeed a shameful fact.No doubt about that.This is what happens to a people who have stagnated in technological progress ,and lost their spiritual and moral responsibility to themsleves,their people and land overcome by petty ambitions and greed.Its a lesson of history.
 
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Greater Punjab region.
Whilst I can't give a definitive statement on what you state but I have my doubts. The Mughals did not have core constituency. And if they did it was centred around Delhi. Yes, in the earlier stages the empire began centred on Lahore but it's centre of gravity shifted to the Ganges valley - Delhi and Agra being testiment to that. These are literally Hindu heartlands. The Mughal empire can be described as a multinational corporation with no real core ethnic group by a continous centre made of flux into which various groups continiusly got drawn including even Hindus. The goal was maximum power/profit to the rulers and not for the betterment of any ethnic or region they ruled.

Yes,its is indeed a shameful fact
Even at that age I was embarrased [I was the only non white in the class] and drw some pleasure about the section we did on the 'Sick Man of Europe' ~ the Ottoman Empire although I knew my links with that were tenous at best. But still.
 
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Remind me who they were fighting with? Clues.

  • British Army
  • Trading company
The Marathas were fighting them on home turf against a few 'gorahs' million miles from home and you make it look like a bloody grand thing that they lasted 3 "full" wars.
Not true.
The goras had major native infantry as well. Mostly Sikhs and hindus at this point I must add.

Muslims who inhabited the region acted as their main force to rely on, and their empire was pretty much centred around what would now be called the Greater Punjab region
That is precisely the reason for their down fall. They did not try a nationwide campaign to bring people to Islam or expelling non Muslims out even.
 
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Whilst I can't give a definitive statement on what you state but I have my doubts. The Mughals did not have core constituency. And if they did it was centred around Delhi. Yes, in the earlier stages the empire began centred on Lahore but it's centre of gravity shifted to the Ganges valley - Delhi and Agra being testiment to that. These are literally Hindu heartlands.

The main cities of the Mughal Empire were Delhi and Lahore, both of which are in the Greater Punjab region. Not only that, but the main population that drove their empire came from this region (e.g Shahbaz Khan, Muhammad Saleh, Wazir Khan, Ustad Ahmed Lahori, etc), with some of the Sultans themselves coming from it (e.g Shah Jahan).

You could extend it to include small amounts of Uttar Pradesh, but you're still left with a core region that was the main force behind the empire.
 
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@Ahmad Sajjad Paracha, @AUSTERLITZ pretty much explained everything there is about the answer to your question. Basically, although Aurangzeb expanded the Empire to its height, it simply was not sustainable. One reason for that was his predecessors had mostly maintained good relations with the small Rajput Kingdoms and Southern and Eastern Indian States, and hence avoided conflict. Aurangzeb, on the other hand, wanted to conquer the entire subcontinent, and he dragged the Mughal empire into a war in the Deccan that he was frankly not prepared for. And although it is debateable, I would say the main catalyst that led to the Mughals' fall is the war in the Deccan against the Marathas. By the time Aurangzeb died, the Mughal "Empire" was basically a puppet Empire in Delhi. By the 18th Century and until the British took over, the Marathas were the dominant powers on the subcontinent.
So basically, Aurangzeb lost support of the other Indian Empires/kingdoms, got tangled in a bloody and expensive war, and did not show the same religious tolerance that Akbar did, which cost him support of Hindus. To some extent, I would say the Marathas made the same mistake by losing the alliances with Sikhs and Rajputs and waging costly and expensive wars in the Punjab and KP.
But who said they were flying flag of anything? If it was any flag it would be "power, money, greed, wealth". Pure and simple.

This 'Maratha' bullshat is tripe. It's mostly revisionist history designed to bloat Hindoo pride. I have come across cheap fanboi maps that show Marathas power extended even upto Peshawar. The truth is it just about touched Punjab. And if Marathas were half big as the Hindoo fanbois make them - why did they not crush a few 'gorahs' working for a trading company from a million miles away??
The Marathas actually defeated the British once and held their ground a second time. In addition, they also defeated the Portugueese and prevented them from expanding past Goa. And they did all this just after bringing down the Mughals and defeating Tipu Sultan and Hyder Ali. Frankly, they just did not have the organizations or technology to win a long term war with the British And as I mentioned, they lost a lot of their allies as they grew more powerful. Here is a painting of the British surrendering to the Marathe empire.
1200px-Maratha_British_Treaty.JPG

but to be honest, there are some events in history that are almost certainly inevitable, and I think the conquering of South Asia is one of them. And the reason is simply technological superiority. The Industrial Revolution originated in Western Europe, which means Britain America, Germany, and to some extent France would be the dominant powers of the world. If indigenous South Asian Empires had somehow kicked out the Goras in 1857, they would have simply returned 5 decades later with machine guns and completed the job. The only thing unusual about European colonization of south asia is that Britain ruled almost the entirety of it, with the exception of some Portugueese and French territories and a handful of semi-independent states. It was not like Africa, which was literally carved up and divided by Europeans. on a side note, it would have been interesting if significant parts of India were ruled by other colonial powers such as the French, Germans, or even Italians. I wonder how modern South Asia would be if that had been the case.
 
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The main cities of the Mughal Empire were Delhi and Lahore, both of which are in the Greater Punjab region. Not only that, but the main population that drove their empire came from this region (e.g Shahbaz Khan, Muhammad Saleh, Wazir Khan, Ustad Ahmed Lahori, etc), with some of the Sultans themselves coming from it (e.g Shah Jahan).

You could extend it to include small amounts of Uttar Pradesh, but you're still left with a core region that was the main force behind the empire.

Yes, and the Rajputs who eventually became Islamicized. This was completed during Aurangzeb’s reign.


The biggest down fall of mughal empire was invasion by Persian empire under nadir shah he sacked Delhi
And weakened mughal empire enough that miscreants like marhata became real threat for mughal many peripheral provinces also declared independence from center using this weakness and then latter British also took advantage of mughal weaknesses

You guys are posting walls of text, but this is the main answer.

Nadir Shah broke the back of the Mughal Empire.

This is sadly what happens when Muslims fight Muslims, brothers fight brother.

A good lesson.
 
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Yes, and the Rajputs who eventually became Islamicized. This was completed during Aurangzeb’s reign.




You guys are posting walls of text, but this is the main answer.

Nadir Shah broke the back of the Mughal Empire.

This is sadly what happens when Muslims fight Muslims, brothers fight brother.

A good lesson.
That is an overly simple answer. The fact is Empires never fall due to one reason. There were several reasons for the Mughal empire's fall, but the main catalyst was that Aurangzeb dragged it into a costly war in the Deccan he was mostly unprepared for. Akbar and Shah Jahan had mostly avoided conflicts with Deccani states. Nadir Shah definitely did not help, but he played a mostly minor role. There is a reason by the time Aurangzeb died, the Marathas became the dominant power in the subcontinent until Panipat, when they were confined to East of the Indus.

BTW, you do know that the majority of Raiputs are Hindu? Most Rajput Kings had good relations with the Mughals under Akbar but they were by no means "Islamacized."
 
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