Watch Iron Fist of Mighty IAF.

[TakeNoBS]

I am not well versed like most of you in military matters so I will ask a question that has been bugging me. Why India is not going ahead and building at HAL at least a few dozen squadrons of LCA? I know there are limitations, but this project has gone on and on and so much of our money spent on it. Surely numbers count for something against superior technology in a war?

I am sure building an LCA inhouse would be cheap enough that we can build at least 5 for the cost of 1 expensive foreign fighter.
Guessing. So why we do not do it? As an example, if one rottweiler is surrounded by 5 jungli juttas, eventually the rottweiler will go down. And probably 1 or 2 jungli kuttas will still be left standing. Thanks in advance for your education!

Well, IAF still regard LCA as not ready yet. So its not been produced. Have you read up about the failed engine test just a few weeks ago?

 

[arp2041]

Another thread turning into a Kolkota street.....

The single F-86 Squadron based in East Pakistan was grounded within 48 hours of the war because of runway damage....before being grounded No 14 Squadron shot down 11 Indian aircraft including two MiG-21s for the loss of five F-86 Sabres. In due course in an attempt to destroy the 11 grounded Sabres, the IAF lost a further 17 aircraft to Pakistani ground fire yet failed to destroy even a single grounded aircraft. !!

Would appreciate it if you can provide the SOURCE of your claim.

Thank You.

 

[rockstarIN]

Would appreciate it if you can provide the SOURCE of your claim.

Thank You.

KKPH.TV, Rupeenews.. you want more?

 

[Windjammer]

Which history are you speaking about the Pakistani version....dude makes me laugh....yours is a history of denial...where in you come up with bizarre things....take 1971 for example no matter what you say...the war was over in 13 days...with 90000 POW's. Beaten in both fronts... In 1999..the Pakistani claimed that there was no regular Army in Kargil..they even didn't claimed the bodies...which had ID of northern light infantry. And after more than a decade Generals come up with the truth. So you talking about history is nothing but a bunch of lies.

As i said Israelis can take pride for taking on forces several times their own size but the Indians take pride in the fact that in the Eastern sector the IAF outnumbered PAF with a ratio of 10 : 1, with superior jets but the IAF still ended up with a bloody nose.
The PA fighting a war 1000 miles from home without the benefit of any logistics or reinforcements or an air cover....more over it was fighting a two front war, with the opportunist Indians at the border and rebel Muktis stabbing from the back.
Before your chest thumping, get a reality check and find out what happened to the IA under somewhat similar circumstances when it went into Sri Lanka. !!
Rather than repeating the same denial nonsense, an introspection wouldn't go a miss with you people. !!

 

[Windjammer]

Would appreciate it if you can provide the SOURCE of your claim.

Thank You.

This has been discussed to the bone before.
You can read all about it here. !!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/40522-flash-back-air-war-1971-a.html

 

[doppelganger]

Well, IAF still regard LCA as not ready yet. So its not been produced. Have you read up about the failed engine test just a few weeks ago?

That's the indigenous Kaveri engine right? Were we not using some foreign engine before that? Can we not build that on license or something? Every wheel does not have to be re-invented right?

 

[suren]

Can someone tell me about those flat gypsies used by commandos?
Why not some armored vehicle with closed ceiling?

 

[Koovie]

Can someone tell me about those flat gypsies used by commandos?
Why not some armored vehicle with closed ceiling?

Open jeeps are usually prefered for ops behind enemy lines because of their mobility.

 

[Contract Killer]

This has been discussed to the bone before.
You can read all about it here. !!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/40522-flash-back-air-war-1971-a.html

he is talking about reliable source, not discussion.

Just post a reliable source.

 

[ANPP]

This has been discussed to the bone before.
You can read all about it here. !!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strate gy/40522-flash-back-air-war-1971-a.html

refer to post #149

 

[sancho]

I am not well versed like most of you in military matters so I will ask a question that has been bugging me. Why India is not going ahead and building at HAL at least a few dozen squadrons of LCA? I know there are limitations, but this project has gone on and on and so much of our money spent on it. Surely numbers count for something against superior technology in a war?

Because LCA didn't get all clearances by IAF yet, to get the MK1 into final production. It is expected to be done this year and then the first 40 x fighters can come.
If there are still key limitations IAF is right to demand the industry to provide what they promised, but if the issues are minor and could be fixed with some later software upgrades, they should induct fighters earlier.

Wrt numbers, India needs numbers for sure, but don't let yourself beeing fooled by the talk about the 42 squadron requirement, because you also have to look at what fighters we are talking.
A fleet of 700 x fighters with half A2A and half A2G is only as good as 350 multirole fighters, because they earlier can only be used in a single role, although the total number of fighters looks high. So even if we currently loose numbers of squadrons in total and look weaker on paper, we are adding way more capable multi role fighters at the same time, which counters the number problem.

Another thread turning into a Kolkota street.....

And could the reason be, that you de-railed the thread from topic by posting pics of PAF exercises and discussing about former wars?

So let's get back to topic please!

 

[TakeNoBS]

That's the indigenous Kaveri engine right? Were we not using some foreign engine before that? Can we not build that on license or something? Every wheel does not have to be re-invented right?

No, Kaveri was dumped ages ago. Its the GE engine that failed the test. Why won't India test the engine in high altitude before design the plane around the engine is beyond human logic.

 

[doppelganger]

Wrt numbers, India needs numbers for sure, but don't let yourself beeing fooled by the talk about the 42 squadron requirement, because you also have to look at what fighters we are talking.
A fleet of 700 x fighters with half A2A and half A2G is only as good as 350 multirole fighters, because they earlier can only be used in a single role, although the total number of fighters looks high. So even if we currently loose numbers of squadrons in total and look weaker on paper, we are adding way more capable multi role fighters at the same time, which counters the number problem.

But equally if one multirole fighter is shot down, it is equal to two single role fighters being shot down. While if one single role fighter is shot down, the other is still flying. Is it not then more about a cost-benefit thing? I know my argument is dangerously close to cannon fodder thinking, but on one hand we are dependent on a foreign country for our hardware. Supply of which could be compromised at any time depending on political climate. On the other hand we have something we build ourselves. No one can control that. And much cheaper as well.

P.S. I got your point. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[kurup]

No, Kaveri was dumped ages ago. Its the GE engine that failed the test. Why won't India test the engine in high altitude before design the plane around the engine is beyond human logic.

Then the same question should be asked to all the major aircraft manufactures around the world .

During MMRCA competition all 6 aircrafts failed to take-off from Leh and only two could succeed after modifications.

 

[Koovie]

As i said Israelis can take pride for taking on forces several times their own size but the Indians take pride in the fact that in the Eastern sector the IAF outnumbered PAF with a ratio of 10 : 1, with superior jets but the IAF still ended up with a bloody nose.
The PA fighting a war 1000 miles from home without the benefit of any logistics or reinforcements or an air cover....more over it was fighting a two front war, with the opportunist Indians at the border and rebel Muktis stabbing from the back.
Before your chest thumping, get a reality check and find out what happened to the IA under somewhat similar circumstances when it went into Sri Lanka. !!
Rather than repeating the same denial nonsense, an introspection wouldn't go a miss with you people. !!

Whats the problem? It was the Indian Navy which made sure that not a single ship could reach east Pakistan with supplies, it was India which supplied and trained the insurgents.... etc. Thats how you fight a war. What would you have done? Letting the enemy get their supplies to make it fairer? There is nothing about fair play. You take every advantage you get and if you can kick your opponent in his balls, you do it. And if you dont have such favorable conditions, you make them yourself.

Furthermore India was attacked by the PAF and not the other way around. Millions were pouring into India and creating massive problems in the eastern states.

BTW we only had a handful of Mig 21s at that time. The main fighters were Gnats and Hunters which were on the same level as the PAFs main fighters.

And lastly, the IPKF was not trained for guerilla warfare. They send in regular troops to fight unknown enemies fighting in an unconventional style. Yes we got a bloody nose but we learned and have become professionals in this field with world wide acclaimed training centers like the CIJW school which is visited by foreign troops from all over the world.