Was hero-making of Tipu Sultan a necessity?

[SarthakGanguly]

Hindus especially, since they are biggest sinner of them all.

True, from the POV of the likes of you. But don't you think the super secular Hindus should get an exemption? Or will you not show them any mercy either?

 

[Kabira]

True, from the POV of the likes of you. But don't you think the super secular Hindus should get an exemption? Or will you not show them any mercy either?

Nope, every hindu most go through walk of shame to purify him.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Of course he was hero, for muslims. Converting kafirs in to Islam was duty of every muslim ruler, nothing wrong with what he did. Hell hindus worship Asoka who slaughtered 150.000 of them in Orisa. I wonder what is worse?

nhi yaar converting kafirs forcibly is not something Islam recommend and it certain don't make you a Islamic hero but there are many contradictory opinions about Tipu sultan . He must have done some good things and must have done some bad things just like every human being does

Is this his quote?

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.

 

[My-Analogous]

we admire him for the rockets he developed and we loathe him for the tyrant he was.

You study wrong and if you read about Tipu then come to realize that in his cabinet mostly ministers are non-muslims and they support him like any thing. This is English propaganda to justify their invasion in India.

 

[Desert Fox]

This article reminds me of a TV serial called the sword of Tipu Sultan, based on a book by the same title, which depicts Tipu Sultan as a man who understood the Britisher's ulterior motives and resisted their evil plans. He and his father are credited for delaying Britishers from taking over Deccan. As a child Tipu Sultan was a hero to me, and then I read somewhere that Tipu was known for his innovative use of rocketry in his military tactics, so much so that NASA has his painting at NASA's HQ. All this fascinated me, till one day when I read about why Tipu was also known as "Aurangzeb of south". Aurangzeb was described as a bigot tyrant par excellence by most of the historians.
And it is then that I came to know about Tipu Sultan's darker sides and about his raids in malabar and coorg, which were gory to say the least.
I'm still flummoxed if Bhagat Singh should really be compared to TipuSultan???
are we adding fuel to fire by glorifying him???

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Since when did indians start believing in Pakistani text books??

 

[utraash]

nhi yaar converting kafirs forcibly is not something Islam recommend and it certain don't make you a Islamic hero but there are many contradictory opinions about Tipu sultan . He must have done some good things and must have done some bad things just like every human being does

Is this his quote?

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.

Most of mullah history from arab to SA is full of accounts of forcible conversion which now some by-products boast off here n there.....

 

[Levina]

You study wrong and if you read about Tipu then come to realize that in his cabinet mostly ministers are non-muslims and they support him like any thing. This is English propaganda to justify their invasion in India.

How many non-Muslim ministers can you name from Tipu Sultan's team???
I could find only Purniah.

Since when did indians start believing in Pakistani text books??

Whooshed over my head!
What do you mean by "believing in Pakistani text books"??

 

[utraash]

Cherry picking. I am willing to bet my life that you will get this verdict. Tipu was a saint or at least as good/bad as any other Hindu king.


Initially he was not. After getting squarely beaten in the First Anglo Maratha War and even betrayed by the Ummah brother Nizam he was out of friends. Then the Marathas were also breathing down on his back. What choice did he have? He was an able general with enough understanding of the need to avoid a two front war. He knew that his primary enemy was the British at the time. Hence his late life benevolence.

@Armstrong - My opinions of Tipu are based entirely on his own letters and his own court documents that are preserved in museums. Some of them are displayed openly. People spend all the time watching the pictures on the walls and don't bother reading the gory details in a small glass enclosed box below it. Those were the ones I read.
I questioned it, it went against what I read in school. I read Graduate history and found who Tipu really was. In school books we were taught a violence free history* (kinda makes sense though), but that's that.

*Except when the eviiiiiil British were mentioned.


It's like a Simon Wiesenthal saying that his hero was Adolf Eichmann. But you have the right to have this opinion. It is only India and Pakistan that can have the guts to glorify their own killers. Pakistan has their Ghauris and we have our Tipus. Same people indeed.

Would you recommend Tipu Sultan rule over Bengal for a period of say 10 years?

The lack of Muslim people in the census is a wrong assertion as the Moplah regions were often considered lawless and not much counting was done in those areas. At least till the 1920s. After the Malabar forces was created, things improved. I just returned from Trivandrum yesterday.


Okay, sorry. I missed that. But you need to make that more prominent, lest you end up condoning mass murderers. Boastful ones at that.


Exactly. Unless they truly and totally repent and accept their crimes. Then ... maybe.


True. But not Hindus exactly. It is the duty of every Muslim to extend Dawah to any non Muslim. Not just or Hindus in particular.


Tipu Sultan. Oh wait.

The reason to support tipu or any Muslim invaders are not hidden in deep sea. Its well known the sympathy arises due to same religious affiliation. Until Muslims stop thinking as Muslim I will not be surprised of another ISIS or Bokoharam or Talibaan or Alqaayada ..... We need to be human first no matter which religion or land we belong to....

You study wrong and if you read about Tipu then come to realize that in his cabinet mostly ministers are non-muslims and they support him like any thing. This is English propaganda to justify their invasion in India.

His non Muslim cabinet doesn't prove anything about Tipu Humane credentials n his humane credentials(killing n forcible conversion in Kerala) are well established thru his own letters exchanges n other records.... @levina can help us in that..
Rest you can harp on the heroic theory just like how Al Bhagdaadi defeating western forces in Iraq n Syria....

 

[Levina]

@levina can help us in that..

Let me clear a fact that Pakistanis misunderstand about Indians, and their POV on Tipu Sultan
1) Tipu Sultan was a great warrior.
2) but Tipu sultan was a religiously intolerant man.
@ghazaliy2k @Desert Fox
A great warrior need not be the most tolerant person, Alexander and Genghis khan are few other examples that fit into this category.

Did not get the notification for the tag @utraash.

 

[scorpionx]

A fairly good article about the futility of absolute character assessment of historical figures especially the ones like Tipu and a must read for Hindutva warriors who are exceedingly loud about Tipu's bigotry but conveniently oblivious about the regular Marhatta plunder of Hindu temples, who later became the national emblem of Hindutva pride.

Why we love to hate Tipu Sultan - Livemint

 

[Levina]

A fairly good article about the futility of absolute character assessment of historical figures especially the ones like Tipu and a must read for Hindutva warriors who are exceedingly loud about Tipu's bigotry but conveniently oblivious about the regular Marhatta plunder of Hindu temples, who later became the national emblem of Hindutva pride.

Why we love to hate Tipu Sultan - Livemint

Was somebody comparing Marathas and Tipu???
A few like me used Marathas as a point of reference to prove that Tipu Sultan turned less harsh towards non Muslims, when he realised that Marathas had become too powerful for him to handle.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Nope, every hindu most go through walk of shame and purify him.

Okay.

Tipu then come to realize that in his cabinet mostly ministers are non-muslims and they support him like any thing

Nope. First you need to understand that Mysore had Wodeyars as the kings. The Hyder Tipu combo got the real power during the daddy Hyder's rule. The paper cabinet did have Hindus. But by the end of his rule, most of the ministers 'saw the beauty of Islam and understood the wretchedness of pagan faith and voluntary accepted Islam'. Except for the 'bigoted' Dewan ( I forget his name now) who did not see the 'light'.

 

[Levina]

bigoted' Dewan

Purniah!
He wasn't a bigot, but a loyal man.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Purniah!
He wasn't a bigot, but a loyal man.

He did not convert. Hence he was a 'bigot'.

 

[scorpionx]

Was somebody comparing Marathas and Tipu???
A few like me used Marathas as a point of reference to prove that Tipu Sultan turned less harsh towards non Muslims, when he realised that Marathas had become too powerful for him to handle.

My hair can turn pink but you, Levina can never pass through as a Hindutva warrior . The post was made in general to assert once again that judging historical characters with modern day parameters like nationalism, secularism or liberalism may lead often to erroneous results.

As far as this very argument of his dwindling strength against the Marathas are concerned , aggregate strength of Tipu's Cavalry, artillery and infantry estimated around a massive 143,000 in 1790, at the time when Sringeri Math was to be plundered. So, it may not be correct to assume that his sympathy to the Math was merely for the Hindu support of his kingdom. He was consistent with his land donation for HIndu temples through out his short lived tenure, not just at the point of crisis.