Was communism a bad thing ? a discussion

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

hmmm... It looks like that it is the people who decide... but tell me was it the people of America who decided War on Iraq?? I 've seen so much heavy protests in America to not attack Iraq and Afghanistan but no body listened..... At the end of the day it's the government who decides... people are just used like cards... Is it the decision of people of Pakistan to allow american drones?? NO...

Really the USA is not a democracy its a republic. Here is the american pledge of Allegiance readsi The current version of the Pledge of Allegiance reads:[1]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The USA is a representive republic, the orignal idea was that a US House of Representatives was to be elected and the Senate appointed and the USA president selected by an electorial college.

The founding fathers were not all that wild about democracy.
The idea is to elect and select wise and talented people to do a good job of leading or running the country. (does not allways work)

But so far there does not seem to be a better system.

 

[mike05]

Communism cannot be compared to Capitalism. The appropriate opposite is Democracy.


Are you saying that capitalism cannot succeed unless there is institutionalized slavery?

I think its more like capitalism cannot survive without a cheap form of energy, be it a barrel of oil or a human slave.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Communism is simply not practical and sustainable. It has a tendency of intolerance and monopolistic behavior. In communism party is above people where as in democracy people are above all.

 

[gambit]

Really the USA is not a democracy its a republic.

Of course the US is very much a democracy as well as a republic. Madison put it best about the US being a representative democracy instead of a direct democracy. A body of representatives, whether it is called a 'congress' or a 'parliament', serves as that needed check against the raw passion of the people.

The Federalist #10

...to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country,...

Of course, the quality of these representatives is a reflection of the general population. But that is for another discussion.

 

[gambit]

I think its more like capitalism cannot survive without a cheap form of energy, be it a barrel of oil or a human slave.

Whether an item is 'cheap' or 'expensive' is subjective. Again...Are you saying that a capitalist cannot prosper unless he is a slaveowner?

 

[niaz]

I have been indulging in such debates since my student days in 1960's UK. At that time USSR was a power to rival USA in every way.

Ideally a communist state is a state where all the goods and services of the State are pooled together and every one takes from it whatever they need. In simple terms, taking the case of shoes; all the shoes of various sizes produced by the community are of similar quality and are piled up in common store room. Family of four will take four shoes according to their size. Family of ten will take ten; regardless of their station or the work they do.

Communist state is a classless state. People living in the Israeli “kibbutz” where everything is collectively owned practice communism. This is however limited to mainly agricultural communities.

There has never been a “Communist” state in the real sense. All the states that were termed as Communist were in fact Socialist states. Socialist states are centrally controlled. State decides who wears what and how much should be given to each family. Socialists believe in class stratification. For example in the hey days of Soviet Union dachas or seasonal holiday homes of Party leaders and officials were far larger and with more creature comforts than those of lesser mortals. So called communist sates however provided jobs, education, health care and living accommodation to every citizen.

China after the death of Chairman Mao Ze Dong ceased to be a Socialist/Communist state. Deng Xiaoping and now Hu Jintao are very liberal leaders in the Zho en Lai mould. It is now reported that Wang Chuanfu, richest man in China is worth more than $5-billion! China my dear Sir is therefore not a communist regime by any standards.

IMO communism was definitely bad thing. It killed off entrepreneurship and therefore so called communist regimes couldn’t compete in the modern world.

 

[mike05]

Whether an item is 'cheap' or 'expensive' is subjective. Again...Are you saying that a capitalist cannot prosper unless he is a slaveowner?

No I'm saying a capitalist cannot prosper without some form of cheap energy, be it petrol to run the suv and till the farm or cheap human energy to assemble ipods in foxconn

 

[Thomas]

I think its more like capitalism cannot survive without a cheap form of energy, be it a barrel of oil or a human slave.

Personally I would argue the opposite becuase communism makes slaves of all. Since it seeks to control free will by force if need be to stay in power. Cuba, China, North Korea, and more and more Venezuela as examples. Though Venezuela is not fully yet, slowly it is turning into one.

 

[mike05]

Personally I would argue the opposite becuase communism makes slaves of all. Since it seeks to control free will by force if need be to stay in power. Cuba, China, North Korea, and more and more Venezuela as examples. Though Venezuela is not fully yet, slowly it is turning into one.

Well I see communism as a ideology which treats all men as equal and attempts to allocate resource efficiently to prevent waste and ensure everyone's well being. Of course as a ideology its good but in reality all men are greedy as hell so eventually capitalism will set in. But if good leaders run the regime they can least slow down and try to control the change least things go out of control.

For the record IMO pure communism ideology will not work in human societies.