War of 71 Views of Indian Field Marshall

[Cobra Arbok]

No it wasn't. And you still failed to make any major gains (in fact, you even lost territory such as Chamb sector).

We captured Turtuk village and drass sector of Baltistan, and also some of the Kargil peaks. Pakistan attempted to get those back in Kargil, but failed.

Pakistan's strategy was actually to cause India enough losses in the west that it would be forced to withdraw the territory it gained in the East. that was the motivation behind the Pakistani offensive at Longewala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala

Our existence. We still exist in the West Despite being out numbered and out gunned

But you failed to liberate your Kashmiri brothers, an we still hold the majority of Kashmir. Also, we have not lost any territory in 70 years, but rather we gained territory. Can't say the same about you.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

We captured Turtuk village and drass sector of Baltistan, and also some of the Kargil peaks.

I never said land wasn't taken, I said no major gains were made, and this is correct.

Pakistan attempted to get those back in Kargil, but failed.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the objective of the Kargil War.

Pakistan's strategy was actually to cause India enough losses in the west that it would be forced to withdraw the territory it gained in the East.

That was the main idea all along, that India wouldn't be so stupid to do something that brought it so little benefit but so much pain.

We were proven wrong. The Indian government/military is even more stupid and petty than we could have ever imagined. The Siachen conflict only further cemented that idea.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I never said land wasn't taken, I said no major gains were made, and this is correct.



I'm pretty sure that wasn't the objective of the Kargil War.



That was the main idea all along, that India wouldn't be so stupid to do something that brought it so little benefit but so much pain.

We were proven wrong. The Indian government/military is even more stupid and petty than we could have ever imagined. The Siachen conflict only further cemented that idea.

Actually turtuk is pretty significant ecause it supports India's position in kargil. India did not have a lot of the territories it has north of Kargil city that it does today prior to 71. That and the area has good potential for tourism.

India definitely is not stupid, and was able to execute operations in Bengal while not losing territory in the west despite most of its resources going to the east.

BTW I respect Pakistani soldiers for the bravery they showed in the war. Both sides showed professionalism.

 

[Rusty]

We captured Turtuk village and drass sector of Baltistan, and also some of the Kargil peaks. Pakistan attempted to get those back in Kargil, but failed.

Pakistan's strategy was actually to cause India enough losses in the west that it would be forced to withdraw the territory it gained in the East. that was the motivation behind the Pakistani offensive at Longewala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala

But you failed to liberate your Kashmiri brothers, an we still hold the majority of Kashmir. Also, we have not lost any territory in 70 years, but rather we gained territory. Can't say the same about you.

That wasn't the objective of 71.
71 was a deffensive war for Pakistan. It was India who was meddling in Pakistani affaris.

As far as the west was concerned, Pakistan defended itself from a bigger nation admirably.

There are actually a lot of Hindutvas who have asked why India could not invade West Pakistan and destroy Pakistan once and for all. The answer they get from their own military is that West Pakistan would have been too hard. In the East a million man army faced 45000 soliders plus friedly locals to Indian miliatary.
No such advantages in the west.

India captured 3600 square Km of Pakistani territory -

1)In Ladakh up till Turtok village,

2) In Kargil, heights overlooking Leh-Srinagar highway, a little known facts is the heights which were briefly captured by Pakistan in 99 were actually taken from Pakistan in back in 71.

3) Chicken's neck area in Jammu.

4) In Sindh up till Naya Chor

5) In Shakargarh Sector - Indian army beat back Pakistani offensive and was close to capturing Sialkot, when cease fire came into effect.

In contrast Pakistan captured just 126 Square km of territory in Chamb, before they were stopped at Munawar Tawi.

Pakistan launched 4 major offensives on western front - 3 of them were completely beaten back - longewala ,Shakargarh and Poonch. One was Partially successful in Chamb.

Indian army had no major offensives planned for western sector and were arranged in defensive array, still end up occupying 3600 Square Kms of Pakistani territory.



You were neither outnumbered nor out gunned in the west.

Indian army was on offensive in the East, with a major chunk of Indian army tied up in the East.

You had parity in tanks and artillery and had 10 infantry divisions deployed compared to India's 13.

And if you think, things were bad then, how can you ever dream of capturing Kashmir, if you couldn't fight India with near parity in fighting forces.

see my other reply.
We achived our objective of defending West Pakistan.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

That wasn't the objective of 71.
71 was a deffensive war for Pakistan. It was India who was meddling in Pakistani affaris.

As far as the west was concerned, Pakistan defended itself from a bigger nation admirably.

There are actually a lot of Hindutvas who have asked why India could not invade West Pakistan and destroy Pakistan once and for all. The answer they get from their own military is that West Pakistan would have been too hard. In the East a million man army faced 45000 soliders plus friedly locals to Indian miliatary.
No such advantages in the west.


see my other reply.
We achived our objective of defending West Pakistan.

or because it was not the objective of india. the objective was to liberate Bd. Mission accomplished. All the other territories India captured was just a bonus.

 

[Rusty]

or because it was not the objective of india. the objective was to liberate Bd. Mission accomplished. All the other territories India captured was just a bonus.

Then why attack west Pakistan?

And you don't think India would have full on invaded West Pakistan if the Pakistan army was weak?

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Then why attack west Pakistan?

And you don't think India would have full on invaded West Pakistan if the Pakistan army was weak?

It was Pakistan that attacked india first. Look up the battle of Longewala. In fact it was Pakistan that started the war with operation Chengiz Khan.

 

[HAIDER]

Hi
a)
While Chasing 300 target, your 9 wickets are down on 230, Now you can't expect the last wicket to chase remaining score.. (Expecting from Mr.Niazi to act as Tarzan is flawed reasoning). It is Probable but its Execution is Remote
b)
Ayub Khan offered separation to BD politicians when they started a movement against Martial law (mentioned in Qudratullah Shahab book, in the same book he exonerated Bhutto for the blame of BD separation). My point is ... An Incident comprises a chain of many Events
c)
Lame Excuses & boobytraps are like
1) Sharabi tha 2) Zani tha 3) Ye tha woo tha
.
Alexander the Great conquered half world drinking Sharab, Babar Mirza in 1526 conquered India enjoying that bad habit. it has nothing to do with PERSONAL WEAKNESSES If the ruler of the country is Clear in his thoughts and Imagination then its fine. But if the ruler of Country is a Sinless creature like Modi & Yogi Adityanath then its Blessing of 11000 watts for both sides

From Fatima Jinnah murder to Awami league won the election ...someone to blame . Someone did something wrong , very wrong. But, Pakistan can't stand against Bengali nationalism.

 

[Rusty]

It was Pakistan that attacked india first. Look up the battle of Longewala. In fact it was Pakistan that started the war with operation Chengiz Khan.

pre-emptive strike is by definition a deffensive move.

India was amassing it's forces, Pakistan did a pre-emptive strike.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

pre-emptive strike is by definition a deffensive move.

India was amassing it's forces, Pakistan did a pre-emptive strike.

I understand what you are saying, but technically India did not attack first. Indira Gandhi's plan was to provoke Pakistan by openly supporting Mukhti Bahini and mobilizing troops and Naval vessels in the east. you have to remember India had bad relations with the US and much of the Western World back then, so it wanted an excuse to launch a full-scale attack. So basically Gandhi provoked Pakistan and got what she needed.

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Jab Fauj ka sarbarah zani shababi kababi ho (yahya) or East Pak ka sarbarah bhi zani shababi kababi (Niazi) ho to ap kya umed krty hen ke Brigade Commanders ne konsy gul khilany hen.

Oye tumhen pata nahi ye sb kaam aaj kal personal kahlaye jaty hain. Inky sath bhi aap madina ki ryasat bana sakty hain.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

chamb.
secondly with 1:1 what did u achieved?

We permanently captured a far bigger area than Chhamb (Turtuk).

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The problem with the Pak authorities is that they failed to publicize the brutalities of the Bengali locals on the Muhajir and West Pakistani folks even after the war!!! It was so brutal that had it reached in full details to the West Pakistan, not a single Bengali there would have survived...

Anyway, BD is the most successful RAW ops as per one of it’s deputy chief, B Raman. And, add the following:

• Fighting 9 months of relentless COIN and anti terrorism ops
• Being fully cutoff from the mainlands by 1200 miles
• Scanty logistics (at the end some units had only flour to eat)
• No air, artillery or armored support
• Almost non existent navy
• Extremely hostile local populace, who helped enemies in all possible ways
• Non familiar and inhospitable geography (swamp lands, numerous water bodies), and nightmare for transportation
• Forget about India, it was basically the USSR to face with all the possible armaments, logistics, planning, diplomatic etc. support
• Pak was the largest Muslim State, and the Israeli PM had overtly stated that Pak was in their rudder. Any fool can connect the dots
• Well coordinated international media campaign
• Treacherous and divisive domestic politics

Indeed no army can withstand such anomalies!!! When faced with overwhelming odds, many are similar to stated above, the Ottoman Army collapsed in WW1. As for the Ehl-I Iman, when such situations arise it means it’s the Divine PLAN that some major events must materialize....

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

We permanently captured a far bigger area than Chhamb (Turtuk).

it was very negligible.
According to indian their troops were better armed.
secondly indian army in the last days brough more reinforcements from eastern front.
Strategically chamb is far more imp were able to achieve.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Actually turtuk is pretty significant ecause it supports India's position in kargil. India did not have a lot of the territories it has north of Kargil city that it does today prior to 71. That and the area has good potential for tourism.

The total land captured was roughly 2% of Pakistan, that's not exactly game-changing (especially when one remembers that most of it was returned to Pakistan). Sure, some areas were strategic, but it's still an awfully small portion that hasn't given India much of an advantage in the long run.

India definitely is not stupid

Certainly seems like it. All this bloodshed with almost nothing to gain, in fact, it pretty much just dug India a deeper grave because it triggered Pakistan to acquire nuclear weapons and support Kashmiri insurgents much more heavily.

while not losing territory in the west

No, India still lost land in the Western sector.

BTW I respect Pakistani soldiers for the bravery they showed in the war. Both sides showed professionalism.

The soldiers performed well (as always), but the command sometimes acted like they had autism. I don't know why but pretty much ever since the 20th century started, Muslim leaders have almost always been abhorrent military tacticians. It seems our strategic thinking pretty much died along with the Ottomans.