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Wahabization-Salafization of Pakistan and Muslim Ummah

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This is yet another sectarian based thread initiated by those who can't comprehend tolerance or difference of opinion in the Islamic traditions. no ikhlas nor kholoos for other muslims, aqeeda is always hell bent on demonizing the other party because they're losing influence over the Mosques due to personal incompetence and ignorance in spiritual matters.

These same people love using Iqbal's quotes when it favours them, but demonize him when he doesn't.


in the words of a great leader, these rats are "2 taga ke maulvi's"

hypocrites.

Not at all, simply neglecting all of the societal evils that Wahabism has brought to Pakistan will only harm us. We must recognize the ideology that is harming us, and we should act accordingly against it.

Hypothetically speaking if a society is plagued with Nazis, and the government and people do nothing to curb the growth of Nazis in their society. But maybe bomb a few Nazis strongholds, but ignore the destructive nature of the Nazi ideology... Will that end Nazism in that country? No, it will increase it.

Identify the ideology, and then destroy it. We must identify Wahabism as a national threat, and we must destroy it in our country.

I have never demonized Allama Iqbal (rah). I am surprised you would bring such a baseless accusation here.

He is one of our founding fathers, and he himself has addressed the dangers of Wahabism.
 
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If you actually knew something about history, then you would know that during the first few years of Islamic Expansion, Muhammad did not try to convert conquered peoples, because they would have overthrown him within seconds.

A shameless post, by a shameless fool who knows little or nothing about the meaning of Islam or Pakistan.

The holy Prophet Muhammad (Sal Allahu alayhe wasalam, peace be upon him) is the final and greatest prophet and messenger of God. Do not take his holy name so likely.

The holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) always spread Islam through love, truth, and peace. And love, truth and peace and fundamental Islamic teachings and values.

The holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the leader of mankind, and can do whatever he wills, and nobody can stop him.

But the greatness of our Prophet (SAW) is like no other. He is the prophet of mercy, and God sent the holy Prophet (SAW) as mercy to mankind. He forgave those who persecuted him and his people for over 13 years, and the holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the closest one to God and the best of God's creations!

So keep your lies away from here.

Wrong. At the end of they day, the only thing matters is that we are Pakistanis :pakistan:

All Pakistanis are equal, no matter they're religion or race. Pakistan was created for all minorities of Hindustan, not just muslims. ;)

Pakistan was created in the name of Islam, and for Muslims.

Pakistan was definately NOT created for the Tamils or Jains...

Which planet are you coming from?
 
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Pakistan was created in the name of Islam, and for Muslims.

Pakistan was definately NOT created for the Tamils or Jains...

Which planet are you coming from?

As in "minorities" I mean the minorities of India that wanted to escape Hindu opression. Which is why Sikhs were invited by Jinnah to come live in Pakistan.

WOW GGOD LUCK ZAID HAMID HE IS LION OF PAKISTAN:p akistan:

More like the Jackass of Pakistan.
 
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Absolutely ludacris accusations. You yourself are following the doctrine of the Wahabis, which proves your bias.

Firstly, as Muslims there are no false prophets or gods, you can't be a Muslim if you believe in those.

And the concept of Wasila is a fundamental Islamic aspect! What you say about Mazar and Prophet (S) is completely false and un-Islamic.

The only innovation here is with Wahabis, and those who follow the belief and aqeedah of Wahabis.
I'm not stopping you from asking prayers from anybody you wish to. Just don't force me to believe that praying to dead souls is of any worth.

That is not Wahabiism, that is common sense and allowing freewill to prosper.
 
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Wahabi or salafi is recognised sect of islam same as shia or sufi sect , mod /admin please close this thread ASAP or made seperate section in PDF where we can discuss religions and sects.
 
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Wahabi or salafi is recognised sect of islam same as shia or sufi sect , mod /admin please close this thread ASAP or made seperate section in PDF where we can discuss religions and sects.

Wahabis are not Muslims. Wahabis are not even human beings. What kind of a person believes that Women need permission from their husbands to leave the house?
 
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Not at all, simply neglecting all of the societal evils that Wahabism has brought to Pakistan will only harm us. We must recognize the ideology that is harming us, and we should act accordingly against it.

Hypothetically speaking if a society is plagued with Nazis, and the government and people do nothing to curb the growth of Nazis in their society. But maybe bomb a few Nazis strongholds, but ignore the destructive nature of the Nazi ideology... Will that end Nazism in that country? No, it will increase it.

Identify the ideology, and then destroy it. We must identify Wahabism as a national threat, and we must destroy it in our country.

I have never demonized Allama Iqbal (rah). I am surprised you would bring such a baseless accusation here.

He is one of our founding fathers, and he himself has addressed the dangers of Wahabism.

Do you think your maulvi's know more then the Prophet SAW about the causes for the downfall of the Ummah?

The Prophet (Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him and His Family) has said in a hadith, more or less, "love of this dunya" is one of the main causes of the downfall of the Muslims, not Wahhabism.

Anyone that questions them or opposes their ridiculous actions, they accuse him of Wahhabism. They have effectively become Takfiri's themselves.


Your Halwa-khoor maulvi's have done nothing for the uplifting of the Ummah other than passing fatwa in the last 100 years or so.

This is an undeniable fact.

I challenge you to refute this and show me what these Halwa-khoor maulvi's have done in the last 100 years in the Sub-Continent, whether in the form of political, military, humanitarian, jihad, etc. any form of work toward the moral and worldly uplifting of their fellow brethren.

Islam is a complete platform and way of life for Muslims, but these halwa-khoor (what i call "ceremonial maulvi's") have turned it into petty ritualistic religion. All they're good at is reading Nikah and wedding speeches, khatam-party at the death (an economic penalty on the family of the deceased) and giving friday sermons.

You can't turn to these petty mullah's for spiritual reformation anymore or as a matter of fact any educational matter. they're full of hate for others.

They even gave fatwa's against other great Sufi's the likes of Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri, a great Sufi and lover of the Prophet SAW, whom many admire for his humanitarian and philanthropic contributions for the Ummah and esp Pakistani Muslims.

These pathetic halwa-khoor maulvi's are a great obstacle in Pakistan
 
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that would be the most stupiest thing i would ever do. If there are 100,000 websites teaching about Islam there are also 1000 websites working against Islam. I can name lots of websites who are doing nothing but misguiding peoples by misinterperating the verses of the Holy Qur'an. I am not a scholar but i am not stupid either.
If you're not stupid that means you have the power to understand and comprehend matters on your own.

And you are not willing to go to Maulvi's but ready to accept the very same Maulvi's opinion from their website. When you will google something about Islam you are most likely to visit the pages created by Maulvi's. And at one place you are not willing to take any advise from them and second place you are ready to listen to them from their websites and then make a final decision based upon the same Maulvi's opinion who instead of giving you an opinion directly sharing the same opinion on his website?
I'm willing to listen to arguments, based on historical events, Quran's verses, etc. Then I'll make my own decision, Maulvi can go blue saying my deduction is wrong and I won't care.

I am not asking you and will never ask you to go to Mullah. Only consult with the reliable Mufti's who you think are well educated and can understand your problem and issue a correct Fatwah accordingly.
In Pakistan I'm yet to find a half decent Mullah.

Second option is also available....... you can read the Holy Qur'an and Saheeh Ahadees by yourself and try to find an answer from the Holy Book and the teachings of our beloeved Prophet. But once again let me tell you that during the time of Hazrat Umar R.A. there were large number of Sahabas and as according to Hadeeth all the Sahabas are like stars, whoever you follow you will find guidance but still he (Hazrat Umar R.A) had set certain parameters. There were only very few Sahabas who were ranked as Mufti's and were allowed to Issue a Fatwah. In fact if i am not wrong they were very few..... you can count the number on your fingers. None of the other Sahabas were allowed to issue any Fatwah, and you are saying you will find an answer on google :rofl:
The problem with Saheeh Hadiths is that they too have been written by Mullahs. I take them with a grain of salt, academic knowledge at best perhaps and I acknowledge that they are open to influences like all other things human.

I like to stick to the Quran, personally and filter out the Hadiths as I see fit. For example the Quran says you have to pray. The Hadiths may tell me how to pray. That's fine. No harm done to anyone nor any disrespect to Allah.

The Quran says nothing about Music being Haraam, the Hadiths says that Music is haraam and quotes incidents of the Prophet where he got so angry listening to Music, totally uncharacteristic of him and full of contradictions, I call Shenanigans on that.

I understand that at the time of these Hadiths compilation, a couple of centuries had passed since the Prophet had passed away. As well as the fact that Kings and monarchs were in power of the seat of Islam rather than true Khalifas. The problem they had with Music was that poets and singers would often wrap up sarcastic comments and satirical depictions within the songs.

One such example is on record. The Mughals of India, were known to have engaged the Mullahs to do their bidding against Sufi saints who would sing and dance and in their songs, call out the tyranny of the emperors or ministers of religion with high power.

It was a political decision to ban Music, not a divine decision. It's like you guys taking Asif Ali Zardari's word as God.

The teachings of Maulvi's can only be their opinion. It is not a final verdict and if any Muslim takes their opinion as final verdict is the most stupid person i will ever see. You have to understand what does Alim means and what is his rank in Islamic teachings, what does Mufti, Maulvi, Qazi, Mullah, Imam, Shaykh, Mujaddid, Muhaddis, Hafiz, Mujtahid etc etc means and how much knowledge of Islam they have.
I have no problem in listening to them. I have a problem when people go like "Oh he said it then it must be right".

I don't know Maulana Bijli and i usually pay no attention to Maulana's as long as i am not aware of their background
Guess what, all of NWFP did back in 2003 when they imposed the ban on Music CDs and women from appearing on TV.

When you acknowledge them as an intermediary between you and God, then you accord to them divine powers with which they will sway away the millions!
 
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Wahabi or salafi is recognised sect of islam same as shia or sufi sect , mod /admin please close this thread ASAP or made seperate section in PDF where we can discuss religions and sects.
Agreed, whereas the matter started off from a Pakistani perspective, it has lost it now and once again we've become thekedaars of all of Islam :D
 
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