Vote on Kashmir: It’s time for an all-India referendum on a deeply troubled state

[Tamilnadu]

@Star Wars @gslv mk3 @gslv @Dash @Ryuzaki @litefire @Tamilnadu



I meant whole of India vote to decide if they think Kashmir should be a part of India or not!!

What is the point of this kind of referendum,the biggest referendum is people of kashmir voting in loksabha elections,they have voted in large numbers instead of calls to boycotte by seperatists.

 

[911]

Although that referendum would mean nothing, better call it a survey.

I feel the thought should not be even entertained. Look at UK, even after a Scottish referendum where Scottish nationalist lost, Scotland is again demanding another referendum.

why?? what purpose will it have? list the gains here...then you will see it is going to be a humongous exercise that will serve hardly anything...and open a Pandora box...next call will be for Khalistan...next for all the north eastern states and what not...

Right.

 

[Russell]

why?? what purpose will it have? list the gains here...then you will see it is going to be a humongous exercise that will serve hardly anything...and open a Pandora box...next call will be for Khalistan...next for all the north eastern states and what not...

I don't really care about Kashmir one way or the other, but surely you have a little more faith in India? Is the Indian state so weak, that a independent Kashmir would set off a domino effect and result in what you state above?

I would have thought there was never a better time to be an Indian in modern history than it is today? The economy is booming and India is starting to get taken seriously by the big boys around the world - and in some respects sitting at the same table as the big boys ...all of that feeds into patriotism and greater nationalism.

I can understand the GOI not wanting a referendum for various stragetic and security reasons, but surely the fear of India falling apart isn't one of them?

 

[deckingraj]

I don't really care about Kashmir one way or the other, but surely you have a little more faith in India? Is the Indian state so weak, that a independent Kashmir would set off a domino effect and result in what you state above?

I would have thought there was never a better time to be an Indian in modern history than it is today? The economy is booming and India is starting to get taken seriously by the big boys around the world - and in some respects sitting at the same table as the big boys ...all of that feeds into patriotism and greater nationalism.

I can understand the GOI not wanting a referendum for various stragetic and security reasons, but surely the fear of India falling apart isn't one of them?

Where do you see i am fearing that India will fall apart? Didn't i say clear enough that referendum will be of little value...Do you think there are enough Indians who are going to say Kashmir to go away?? and once the referendum results are out do you think Pakistan and separatists will seize their work?? Answer is a big NO...now let me tell you a little about pandora box..

After this referendum people will want a referendum on Punjab, then Assam, Mizoram, Nagaland and every tom dick and hary will want one - Like kashmir results are going to be same....Nada...however a general election in 2014 costed us about $5 Billion...so now please tell me what good a referendum will bring??

 

[Joe Shearer]

Perhaps it’s high time that we held a referendum on Kashmir. The proposal of holding a referendum within Kashmir has been there since the state’s inception, and has been shelved for one reason or other.

However, the referendum we should now have shouldn’t be restricted to the state but should include all of India.

Today, Kashmir is a deeply troubled, as well as a deeply troubling, state: The recent spate of violent unrest, which has already claimed more than 40 lives, has caused a lot of soul-searching not just in political circles but also among the so-called common people, the aam admi.

Kashmir’s problems may well be instigated by Islamabad, as New Delhi keeps repeating. But the more armed force that is used to keep Kashmir within the Indian republic, the more we play into the hands of the separatists, who hail every street protestor who is shot as a martyr to the cause of Kashmir.

Former home minister P Chidambaram has said that it is time that New Delhi review its Kashmir policy and not only grant greater autonomy to the state but also redeploy the army to the border with Pakistan so as to avoid confrontation with the civilian population within the state.

This raises a larger question which goes beyond Kashmir: Can a democracy use armed might to retain any part of itself without compromising its own democratic principles?

A lot of people in India see the Kashmir problem as a largely New Delhi preoccupation which is proving a drain on our national resources, in terms of money spent and security personnel deployed, at the expense of other parts of the country.

Perhaps it’s time to ask the Indian people – not just Kashmiris, and not just the political class – as to what they feel about retaining Kashmir, at any cost.

The UK has had its Brexit referendum, ill-advised though many fear it will prove to be. An all-India referendum on Kashmir might yield a similarly unpalatable result. But over the years, the ‘Kashmir problem’ has assumed the dimension of a national neurosis which needs to be exorcised, even if it means adopting out-of-the-box methods.

If a Kashmir referendum were to be held i know how i’d vote. Do you?

@Joe Shearer @ranjeet @jbgt90 @Levina @Parul @anant_s @Skull and Bones @SpArK @MilSpec @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @AUSTERLITZ @ito @Stephen Cohen @SarthakGanguly @he-man and I will tag when I remember.

BTW I was thinking of the same thing since this morning and when I googled it I found a blog in TOI. I would like to also add. The referendum should also have an open vote as to we will be know who has voted and for who.....I mean yes or no. What's your take?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...-india-referendum-on-a-deeply-troubled-state/

I disagree in principle.

The principle is that we do not determine or define a state in terms of communal unity. The principle is that a citizen's faith system is entirely her or his own, and should in no way affect her or his affiliation to the state, or the state's dealings with her/him. That a citizen is defined in terms of willingness to comply with the laws of that land, and to change or alter laws that are of no use or of limited use beyond a given stage of economic or political development. That a citizen's point of view ought to be respected, unless it is harmful to the republic. That a citizen's position is not undermined by that position being in a minority. That a citizen is defined in terms of acceptance as fellow citizens all who join her in agreeing on this common programme,

• loyalty to the state,
• obedience of its laws and willingness to participate in amending those laws,
• right to hold a point of view and to propagate it, even if it is a minority view.,
• recognition and acceptance of all fellow citizens,

Some of the Kashmiris have none of these, some have all.

We cannot let the minority be overwhelmed by the majority. Either minority Pandits, or principled small groups of Kashmiri Muslim.

It's as simple and as stark as that.

 

[Levina]

The referendum should also have an open vote as to we will be know who has voted and for who.....I mean yes or no. What's your take?

just why?
Dont we know that it will be futile to carry out a referendum in merely our part of the Kashmir.
Infact, i have a feeling we have reached a point of no return. Referendum is not a possibility at all.

 

[Vikas Kumar]

Yaar bhai kya ho gaya hai PDF ko. I guess this is the 100th thread opened on Kashmir in last 20-25 days.

Nothing is gonna happen till India or Pakistan atleast one of them does not break into pecies and become really weak and I cant see this happening in near future

 

[livingdead]

depends on the issue... if the question is, do rest of India want to have kashmir within their union, then rest of India can vote(but kashmiris should not be allowed).. if the question is do kashmiris want to be in the union or leave, then its appropriate that only kashmiris vote.
Only brits voted in EU referendum.. not all europeans... similarly only scots voted in scottish referendum.... (not English or welsh or northern irish)... @thesolar65

 

[thesolar65]

Although that referendum would mean nothing, better call it a survey.

Yes, the Right word.

@Rain Man I forgot to tag you.

 

[NALANDA]

Indian Parliament has already done it. No need to further waste money on the process. Further, too much focus on few lakhs people of 4 little district is not wise at all. Just go about our life ..........things would get settled .

 

[neem456]

NOREFERENDUM.

 

[dray]

Yes, the Right word.

@Rain Man I forgot to tag you.

It goes against our costitution, and it would set a very bad precedence, I will reply in detail later.

We cannot let the minority be overwhelmed by the majority. Either minority Pandits, or principled small groups of Kashmiri Muslim.

I am so pleased to hear this from you, because most of the Indians who identify themselves as believers of secular and liberal principles act very selectively to upheld these values, and that is a primary cause of the rise of right wing thoughts among the population who have no one to speak for them when they suffer. Time and again we as a country have failed to upheld these good values equally for all, and even acted against it in the very name secularism and liberalism.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It goes against our costitution, and it would set a very bad precedence, I will reply in detail later.



I am so pleased to hear this from you, because most of the Indians who identify themselves as believers of secular and liberal principles act very selectively to upheld these values, and that is a primary cause of the rise of right wing thoughts among the population who have no one to speak from them when they suffer. Time and again we as a country have failed to upheld these good values equally for all, and even acted against it in the very name secularism and liberalism.

That is very unfair, although I say this without heat or excitement. Follow Arshia Malik on Facebook to know how I/several of us thinking along the same lines look at the new left. They are despicable.

 

[Spectre]

I disagree in principle.

The principle is that we do not determine or define a state in terms of communal unity. The principle is that a citizen's faith system is entirely her or his own, and should in no way affect her or his affiliation to the state, or the state's dealings with her/him. That a citizen is defined in terms of willingness to comply with the laws of that land, and to change or alter laws that are of no use or of limited use beyond a given stage of economic or political development. That a citizen's point of view ought to be respected, unless it is harmful to the republic. That a citizen's position is not undermined by that position being in a minority. That a citizen is defined in terms of acceptance as fellow citizens all who join her in agreeing on this common programme,

• loyalty to the state,
• obedience of its laws and willingness to participate in amending those laws,
• right to hold a point of view and to propagate it, even if it is a minority view.,
• recognition and acceptance of all fellow citizens,

Some of the Kashmiris have none of these, some have all.

We cannot let the minority be overwhelmed by the majority. Either minority Pandits, or principled small groups of Kashmiri Muslim.

It's as simple and as stark as that.

So is India ready for holding a referendum on Republic of Palika Bazar, with the constituents being traders and shopkeepers? Principle being the same

 

[Joe Shearer]

So is India ready for holding a referendum on Republic of Palika Bazar, with the constituents being traders and shopkeepers? Principle being the same

Exactly.