What's new

Vixen-1000E AESA with IRST showcased at IDEAS

That is just fiction. The only thing that is actually monitored are the EW systems and TGP which have a failsafe to not allow tampering from anyone other than authorised personell. The aircraft themselves cannot be done diddly squat to; sadly this is an uneducated myth propagated.

I was talking in context of these wikileaks cables

2007 September 17, 12:09 (Monday)



B. ISLAMABAD 3526 C. ISLAMABAD 3168 Classified By: Anne W. Patterson, for reasons 1.4 (b)(d) 1. (C)

Encrypted Software ------------------

12. (S) Additional Secretary MG Malik in his letter to DSCA cites as additional evidence of our lack of transparency the fact that the LOA did not contain provisions explaining the need for encrypted devices. He fears the U.S. will be able to limit the capability of the F-16s by withholding access to the cryptokeys. 13. (S) Recommendation: We need to explain to the Pakistanis that the provision was in the LOA and many countries are subject to the same restrictions. The Pakistanis do not fully understand our requirements for sharing encrypted devices and need to be reassured that the aircraft will still fly without the cryptokeys. A briefing for Air Marshal Tanvir and/or his staff could resolve this misunderstanding.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-607#ixzz4RTKbhThN
 
.
Nothing of the sort. The limitations is NOT within hardware, it is the usual sort of myth the likes of which are propogated by either the uneducated , ignorant or downright mischevious folk. The same sort of myth making that plagued the New chief on his beliefs, the same sort of myth making that plagues all activities of US aid.


Behavior is not restricted to just ignorant conspiracy theorists. Even the ACM PAF and his team as well as the the team from civilian side (MoD) were as much paranoid (as Mastan khan becomes some time) about kill switches, America restricting capabilities of F-16 during 2006-2009~ timeperiod
 
.
Again, killswitches are unnecessary amd counterproductive. As i have said before, the US can disable the aircraft by hacking it if it wished making a "killswitch" useless amd counterproductive given the political ramifications of such products . As for the question of would the US do so in the evemt of conflict between India and Pakistan... Almost definitely NOT. When you have numerous nations operating and buyimg hardware from US, the last thing you wamt them to think about before giving you the contract is that PAF F-16s became useless when they were needed to defend against India, even if you are on Indias side. If America did disable them, then Saudis, UAE, Turkey ect would dump US defense equipment and run to China and Russia (last thing US wants). Nations would pull funding from F-35 (what good is a 150mil aircraft of US disables it because its tryimg tp suppress your ability to wage war.

But if Pakistan ever found itself in armed conflict with the US/Nato then the American military would disable them quickly, partly via hacking.
 
.
I was talking in context of these wikileaks cables

2007 September 17, 12:09 (Monday)



B. ISLAMABAD 3526 C. ISLAMABAD 3168 Classified By: Anne W. Patterson, for reasons 1.4 (b)(d) 1. (C)

Encrypted Software ------------------

12. (S) Additional Secretary MG Malik in his letter to DSCA cites as additional evidence of our lack of transparency the fact that the LOA did not contain provisions explaining the need for encrypted devices. He fears the U.S. will be able to limit the capability of the F-16s by withholding access to the cryptokeys. 13. (S) Recommendation: We need to explain to the Pakistanis that the provision was in the LOA and many countries are subject to the same restrictions. The Pakistanis do not fully understand our requirements for sharing encrypted devices and need to be reassured that the aircraft will still fly without the cryptokeys. A briefing for Air Marshal Tanvir and/or his staff could resolve this misunderstanding.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-607#ixzz4RTKbhThN

The crypto keys refer to Link16 only. Rest is conspiracy theories.
 
. .
When a system is in air and a foreing power is viewing video stream that the operator is viewing and even observing the airstrike as the while in progress you call it hacking into a system. The exact same way if a person is observing whatever you are doing on your personal computer has hacked you. You cam call it whatever you want, but in the end they have your data and access to all your systems and can damage your systems with a few key strokes.

Any comm. that is in air is vulnerable to eavesdropping (a better term I think) and not just UAVs or fighter jets that use it, if the intruder has the right instruments and access to it in the right location. Hacking is a more mordern term, and frankly it has been overloaded in popular culture. The type of 'hacking' you are referring is rendering the fighter aircraft useless/disabled/damaged by a 'few key strokes' - something like this in computers can be possible through malware or virus. If an adversary is able to decode your encrypted data then it can compromise your missions plans, but then how does that damage the actual systems which are communicating? Its just like saying I was able to listen a secret coversation between two persons, so now I have the ability to stop their heart beats or paralyze them etc. (unless you have psychic powers, which may not be that far - see Men who stare at goats). All the intruder did is got the information, which is very useful and can be devastating if used properly (read turing machine during world war 2). Any decent fighter jets controls and management systems are designed in a closed circuit manner - with some critical systems built only in HW such as digital or analogue circuits or even programmed in hardware such as FPGAs. Avionics systems are designed using strict cert and design guidelines such as DO178B for SW, DO254 for HW and ARP guidelines at the system level etc.. Just to give you an idea, a lot of SW apps for aviation are these days going into IMA platforms (Integrated Modular Avionics - a type of Virtual Machine) - overall it provides partitioning of different apps running on the platform and, builtin HW and SW features are to ensure that memory and execution of each application is completely partitioned; the platform OS ensures that even a bad loaded application cannot cause a failure for other applications. Here I mentioned about a loaded app not being able to cause a failure in the other apps - so think about how difficult (or even impossible) would it be to introduce a virus or malware in these types of systems (mechanisms in place to ensure data loading of apps is prohibited in air and is only possible on ground through specific maint tools, ports and interfaces).

Open network commercial devices such as cellphones, laptops etc. are open to attacks, as they are visible or acessible on the internet; they need this openess in order to make services like IE explorers, whatsapp, and others function using TCP/IP protocols. The high visibility and ease of access combined with less restrictions on SW tech and stadards used on these commercial devices, make them vulnerable to attacks.
But remove the external interfaces and have a few computers, even standard windows desktops, in a closed loop network using ethernet cables, and no 'key strokes' can cause damage UNLESS the intruder has physical access to any of the machines or the network.

The battle between data encryption and its counter measures to decrypt or decode them is a never ending one, and new measures and then their counter measures will always be invented.

In my opinion Link 16 is still considered a very secure and safe way of communicating, does any knowledgeable member know if there have been instances of it being compromised by eavesdropping or 'hacking'.

Regards
 
Last edited:
.
I was talking in context of these wikileaks cables

2007 September 17, 12:09 (Monday)



B. ISLAMABAD 3526 C. ISLAMABAD 3168 Classified By: Anne W. Patterson, for reasons 1.4 (b)(d) 1. (C)

Encrypted Software ------------------

12. (S) Additional Secretary MG Malik in his letter to DSCA cites as additional evidence of our lack of transparency the fact that the LOA did not contain provisions explaining the need for encrypted devices. He fears the U.S. will be able to limit the capability of the F-16s by withholding access to the cryptokeys. 13. (S) Recommendation: We need to explain to the Pakistanis that the provision was in the LOA and many countries are subject to the same restrictions. The Pakistanis do not fully understand our requirements for sharing encrypted devices and need to be reassured that the aircraft will still fly without the cryptokeys. A briefing for Air Marshal Tanvir and/or his staff could resolve this misunderstanding.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-607#ixzz4RTKbhThN
So essentially the cable reveals the lack of knowledge of Mr Malik and not the vunerability of the aircraft.

Behavior is not restricted to just ignorant conspiracy theorists. Even the ACM PAF and his team as well as the the team from civilian side (MoD) were as much paranoid (as Mastan khan becomes some time) about kill switches, America restricting capabilities of F-16 during 2006-2009~ timeperiod
Nothing of that sort, the cable is the only thing you have that shows such a behaviour and that too for a less than aware civilian official. Everyone else is very aware of what they are getting. Lets not propagate ignorance especially we have many "ELITE" and "SENIOR" members who are the epitome of that word.

Others that deliberately spread misinformation in order to look important or knowledgeable.
 
Last edited:
.
Anything that is in the air medium is vulnerable to eavesdropping (a better term I think, using crptanalysis to break encryption) and not just UAVs or fighter jets that use it, but anything that is using the EM spectrum to communicate wirelessly if the intruder has the right instruments and access to it in the right location. Hacking is a more mordern term, and frankly it has been overloaded in popular culture. The type of 'hacking' you are referring is rendering the fighter aircraft useless/disabled/damaged by a 'few key strokes' - something like this can be possible through malware or virus. If an adversary is able to decode your encrypted data then it can compromise your missions plans and ruin it, but then how does that damage the actual system which is communicating? Its just like saying I was able to listen a secret coversation between two persons, so now I have the ability to stop their heart beats or paralyze them etc. (unless you have psychic powers, which may not be that far - see Men who stare at goats). All the intruder did is got the information, which is very useful and can be devastating if used properly (read turing machine during world war 2). Any decent fighter jets controls and management systems are designed in a closed circuit manner - with some critical systems built only in HW such as digital or analogue circuits or even programmed in hardware such as FPGAs. Avionics systems are designed using strict cert and design philosophy guidelines such as DO178B fo SW, DO254 for HW and ARP 4754 guidelines at the system level etc.; well those are must for civil aviation these daya, I think Military also follows these and their own specific MIL standards and guidelines. Just to give you an idea, a lot of SW apps for aviation are these days going into IMA platforms (Integrated Modular Avionics - a type of Virtual Machine) - overall it provides partitioning of different apps running on the platform and, builtin HW and SW features are to ensure that memory and execution of each application is completely partitioned; the platform OS ensures that even a bad loaded application cannot cause a failure for other applications. Here I mentioned about a loaded app not being able to cause a failure in the other apps - so think about how difficult (or even impossible) would it be to introduce a virus or malware in this type of systems (mechanisms in place to ensure data loading of appa is prohibited in air and is only possible on ground through specific maint tools, ports and interfaces).

Open network commercial devices such as cellphones, laptops etc. are open to attacks, as they are visible or acessible on the internet; they need this openess in order to make services like IE explorers, whatsapp, and many other thousands apps function using TCP/IP protocols. High visibility and access of commercial devices combined with less restrictions on SW tech and stadards used on these commercial devices, makes them vulnerable to attacks.
But remove the external interfaces and have a few computers, even stadard windows desktops, in a closed loop network Using ethernet cables, and no 'key strokes' can cause damage UNLESS the intruder has physical access to any of the machines or the network physicallyq. For that the intruder willl have to employ some cheeky ways to get access to the machines or network: such as breaking into the routers by disguising your self as fake maitenance personel or spying or manipulating an employee into doing something stupid like plugging a usb drive with a malware ... the possibilities are endless.

The battle between data encryption and its counter measures to decrypt or decode them is a never ending one, and new measures and then their counter measures will always be invented.

In my opinion Link 16 is still considered a very secure and safe way of communicating, does any knowledgeable member know if there have been instances of it being compromised by eavesdropping or 'hacking'.

Regards

Lot of technical mumb-jumb. Whats encrypted cannot be broken / hard to be broken. Whats not can be received. Link 16 is virtually uncrackable.
 
.
Behavior is not restricted to just ignorant conspiracy theorists. Even the ACM PAF and his team as well as the the team from civilian side (MoD) were as much paranoid (as Mastan khan becomes some time) about kill switches, America restricting capabilities of F-16 during 2006-2009~ timeperiod


Hi,

Are you brainless---we put kill switches on our cars that we sell to customers with terrible credit on the request of the lienholder---and they can shut them off when the payments are not made.

Our whole line of Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep & Ram trcuks product with bluetooth technology had been publicly hacked.

All large fleet companies here in the U S have kill switches installed on their trucks---the trucks are constantly tracked thru satellite---.

I have put videos of those on this site---and then another superstar super stud wakes up from slumber---enemies of pakistan.

Again, killswitches are unnecessary amd counterproductive. As i have said before, the US can disable the aircraft by hacking it if it wished making a "killswitch" useless amd counterproductive given the political ramifications of such products . As for the question of would the US do so in the evemt of conflict between India and Pakistan... Almost definitely NOT. When you have numerous nations operating and buyimg hardware from US, the last thing you wamt them to think about before giving you the contract is that PAF F-16s became useless when they were needed to defend against India, even if you are on Indias side. If America did disable them, then Saudis, UAE, Turkey ect would dump US defense equipment and run to China and Russia (last thing US wants). Nations would pull funding from F-35 (what good is a 150mil aircraft of US disables it because its tryimg tp suppress your ability to wage war.

But if Pakistan ever found itself in armed conflict with the US/Nato then the American military would disable them quickly, partly via hacking.


Hi,

Thank you---. This is basic general knowledge 101 for someone with basic computer technology information---anything that has a connection---it can be hacked.

And this hacking is worst than the 90's sanctions---because these sanctions would be instantaneous.

For idiots who do not know that self parking cars are common now and can be easily hacked---.




The second video---the car is around 10 years old---.

In my opinion Link 16 is still considered a very secure and safe way of communicating, does any knowledgeable member know if there have been instances of it being compromised by eavesdropping or 'hacking'.

Regards

Hi,

Indeed link 16 is very secure---but not for those who created it.
 
Last edited:
.
There is nothing in world of digital data link as uncrackable. It's just matter of time, if it's invincible today, then would not be tomorrow. This multi billion dollar industry has huge resources.

Once German forces were thinking same about Enigma.
 
.
X12644860-52.jpg
 
.
http://armedanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/can-infrared-search-and-track.html



OLS-27(Su-27)-15 km vs frontal cruising target, 50 km vs rear cruising target.
OLS-35(Su-35)-35 km vs frontal cruising target, 90 km vs rear cruising target
PIRATE(Eurofighter)-50 km vs frontal cruising target, 90 km vs rear cruising target, 150 km against supersonic rear cruising targets.
OSF(Rafale)-Max range 130 km probably only against supersonic targets.
Skyward G(Gripen)-Similar to the PIRATE
 
.
There is nothing in world of digital data link as uncrackable. It's just matter of time, if it's invincible today, then would not be tomorrow. This multi billion dollar industry has huge resources.

Once German forces were thinking same about Enigma.

Easy to say such things when you don't work with encryption.
 
.
Again, killswitches are unnecessary amd counterproductive. As i have said before, the US can disable the aircraft by hacking it if it wished making a "killswitch" useless amd counterproductive given the political ramifications of such products . As for the question of would the US do so in the evemt of conflict between India and Pakistan... Almost definitely NOT. When you have numerous nations operating and buyimg hardware from US, the last thing you wamt them to think about before giving you the contract is that PAF F-16s became useless when they were needed to defend against India, even if you are on Indias side. If America did disable them, then Saudis, UAE, Turkey ect would dump US defense equipment and run to China and Russia (last thing US wants). Nations would pull funding from F-35 (what good is a 150mil aircraft of US disables it because its tryimg tp suppress your ability to wage war.

But if Pakistan ever found itself in armed conflict with the US/Nato then the American military would disable them quickly, partly via hacking.

Kill switch won't be useful as F-16 is not 5+ Generation aircraft. It can be easily taken down from F-18 or F-15 even opponents are not using F-22 or F-35
 
.
Those of you who think the Americans don't have a kill switch on the F-16 need to learn more about modern hacking methodology. Any killswitch they have would be at such a microscopic level that no one would be able to even identify it. The result would be a critical failure leading to a crash that would be simply attributed to 'technical fault'. And they would definitely do this during a Pak/India conflict.

So what kind of hacks are we talking about? In order to open up your minds, let me give you some examples of modern hacks. Please read these in detail. Then try to think what would happen if there is a killswitch that can be activated through such advanced hacks. As these articles state, no one would be able to even determine whether the hack took place.

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/new-form-hacking-breaks-ideas-computers-work/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/computers-can-be-hacked-using-high-frequency-sound/

I think we need to learn more about the insidiousness of the CIA and NSA. We also need to come out of our dreams and actually read some of the material written about us in American media. We are seen as 'vexing problem'. Our relationship is 'sensitive'. In short, we are a thorn in the side, a cactus stuck in the throat and anything that can be done to gain leverage over us WILL BE DONE.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom