Vikramditya & the IAC Vikrant Threat To Pakistan Waters

[Storm Force]

Until Today These where just theoretical threats to Pakistans sea lanes ie

2 new 40k tonne meduim sized carriers who between them can boast 60+ fighters and helicopters

But now its ground reality

Vikramditya rebuilt into a formidable weapons platform is arriving into the indian navy tomrrow AND the IAC indengious carrier is gathering pace in its commissioning soon.

This will help transform their operational capability

'INS Vikramaditya will be a game-changer' - Times Of India

below the indengious VIKRANT even more powerful and modern potentially is taking shape inn indian ship yards

eventually to this by 2016

The MIG29K fighters are already here

 

[Luftwaffe]

It is true that ACs posses Threats in its own ways but Pakistan has heavily invested in Carrier Killers as Weapons of choice, the motives and objectives should be well know to INavy, decommission ACs temporary out of War is in itself a major success but remains to be seen how effectively Pakistan Navy/Air plans would be. It would be understatement and underestimation by INavy and they should be concerned as with little investment Pakistan can potentially achieve the objectives to taking out ACs out of War..

 

[Abingdonboy]

It is true that ACs posses Threats in its own ways but Pakistan has heavily invested in Carrier Killers as Weapons of choice, the motives and objectives should be well know to INavy, decommission ACs temporary out of War is in itself a major success but remains to be seen how effectively Pakistan Navy/Air plans would be. It would be understatement and underestimation by INavy and they should be concerned as with little investment Pakistan can potentially achieve the objectives to taking out ACs out of War..

The real question is how does Pakistan deploy these much-hyped "carrier killers" against CBGs with significant AAD capability (see MF-STAR/RAN-40L Barak LR-SAM combo) that can launch supersonic fighters, flying BARCAP, with ranges in the 1000s of kms and with IFR capability that are able to take on the best fighter a/c the PAF has to offer and in a situation where the ACC will never need to be put directly in harms way.


@Dillinger, anything more to add?

 

[Dillinger]

The real question is how does Pakistan deploy these much-hyped "carrier killers" against CBGs with significant AAD capability (see MF-STAR/RAN-40L Barak LR-SAM combo) that can launch supersonic fighters, flying BARCAP, with ranges in the 1000s of kms and with IFR capability that are able to take on the best fighter a/c the PAF has to offer and in a situation where the ACC will never need to be put directly in harms way.


@Dillinger, anything more to add?

I already have, from providing the lineage of the AKG to the near exact time interval between detection and terminal approach and the requirements for its interception during the terminal approach (even with a pulsed rocket it is highly vulnerable to an interceptor with high lateral acceleration operating with the required illumination of the target- all of this is present in the pages of the AKG thread), at best it will place constraints on the AC's operational maneuverability, otherwise its a sub-par option and will not nearly provide the quantum of protection that many here assume that it will. Pakistan's only real defense will lie in a sea-skimming supesonic precision ASCM- that too launched from a nuke sub (albeit a conventional sub will do with certain operational penalties)- and obviously guided in by a complete grid of satellites meant for the express purpose akin to the Upravlayemyi Sputnik (both the passivniy and aktivniy systems from the same family).

 

[American Pakistani]

Yes they are threat to Pakistan but Pakistan has invested in Carrier Killers as above member too has mentioned. For now these should be a threat to india's billion$ ACC's.

But I think in future Pakistan should try getting one.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I already have, from providing the lineage of the AKG to the near exact time interval between detection and terminal approach and the requirements for its interception during the terminal approach (even with a pulsed rocket it is highly vulnerable to an interceptor with high lateral acceleration operating with the required illumination of the target- all of this is present in the pages of the AKG thread), at best it will place constraints on the AC's operational maneuverability, otherwise its a sub-par option and will not nearly provide the quantum of protection that many here assume that it will. Pakistan's only real defense will lie in a sea-skimming supesonic precision ASCM- that too launched from a nuke sub (albeit a conventional sub will do with certain operational penalties)- and obviously guided in by a complete grid of satellites meant for the express purpose akin to the Upravlayemyi Sputnik (both the passivniy and aktivniy systems from the same family).

Thanks, I'll have to go to the AKG tread and have a read of your comments

I too was thinking the only credible threat Pakistan could offer against IN ACCs are advanced SSNs and by advanced I don't mean the "noisy" subs the PLAN are operating that would quite easily be detected by the advanced ASW kit the IN has/is set to acquire but truly state of the art contemporary SSNs. And for oh so many reasons this is a just a pipe dream as far as Pakistan is concerned for the short to medium term.

 

[acid rain]

Thanks, I'll have to go to the AKG tread and have a read of your comments

I too was thinking the only credible threat Pakistan could offer against IN ACCs are advanced SSNs and by advanced I don't mean the "noisy" subs the PLAN are operating that would quite easily be detected by the advanced ASW kit the IN has/is set to acquire but truly state of the art contemporary SSNs. And for oh so many reasons this is a just a pipe dream as far as Pakistan is concerned for the short to medium term.

ACC's for Pakistan is overkill because of the proximity and its geography.

 

[EagleEyes]

What kind of support fleet does India have?

Pakistan as usual will invest a lot in submarines in the future, but that is not the focus currently.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What kind of support fleet does India have?

A modest one but it is growing rapidly. 

Pakistan as usual will invest a lot in submarines in the future, but that is not the focus currently.

But is this really enough? Unless they are SSNs up to the level of contemporary Western designs then what real threat is this to the IN with its advanced and growing ASW capabilities.

 

[SQ8]

But is this really enough? Unless they are SSNs up to the level of contemporary Western designs then what real threat is this to the IN with its advanced and growing ASW capabilities.

A SSN is not not important.. A quiet Diesel will also do. What is required is numbers. These subs have to be able to successfully get close into the ASW net to create issues. However, I would not count out the value of systems such as the Cm-400 or AGM-84. If nothing else, they serve as a source of consternation and have the fleet commander fretting at every flying object coming within 200km of the carrier. It also will force constant BARCAP which in itself is a drain on resources.

Moreover, BARCAPs are not a 100% guarantee that something will not get through or be launched. After all.. PAF mirages managed to break through BARCAPs by F-14s during exercises.. so its better never to underestimate the low level launch platform skimming some 30 feet above the sea.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I like those two slots for the Italian naval guns.

I dont think I have seen an AC with such naval guns attached.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...07-03.jpg/800px-Nansen-oto75mm-2006-07-03.jpg


IAC-1 will look pretty neat when finished.

 

[kaykay]

The real question is how does Pakistan deploy these much-hyped "carrier killers" against CBGs with significant AAD capability (see MF-STAR/RAN-40L Barak LR-SAM combo) that can launch supersonic fighters, flying BARCAP, with ranges in the 1000s of kms and with IFR capability that are able to take on the best fighter a/c the PAF has to offer and in a situation where the ACC will never need to be put directly in harms way.


@Dillinger, anything more to add?

You forgot mentioning it's powerful 'Electronics Warfare suite' with long range radars which will make a survelliance bubble of 500 km around the ships. Enemy aircrafts will have to struggle to detect the ship and launch any weapon as It has capability to make them 'Blind' beyond 100s of KM. Though quite submarines can be a problem to some extent.

 

[HariPrasad]

ACC's for Pakistan is overkill because of the proximity and its geography.

Exactly, Pakistan already phase a high risk from non AC warships of India. To attack pakistan, Indian planes do not require to fly from AC. So I do not think that India's AC has significantly increased any threat to Pakistan or Pakistan navy. I believe that most threatening part to PN shall be Brahmos mounted on MKIs. Once fired on PN ship, it will be very difficult for the ships to survive.

 

[kaykay]

I like those two slots for the Italian naval guns.

I dont think I have seen an AC with such naval guns attached.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...07-03.jpg/800px-Nansen-oto75mm-2006-07-03.jpg


IAC-1 will look pretty neat when finished.

Bhai saab, I think those 2 slots are not for such naval artillary guns but rather for CIWS.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Bhai saab, I think those 2 slots are not for such naval artillary guns but rather for CIWS.

I remember seeing CGI of two of those placed there. As far as I can remember.