VIEW: Success lies in secularism —Dr Irfan Zafar

[ashokdeiva]

He got the best of you. You're now ranting just like him.

sorry bro, i do not get what you are saying from your post.

 

[*Awan*]

my quest is not to tech him about religion, but why does he not use his reasoning ability, why is he blind to say that? why is he not interested in part where he can have a hindu as a friend and invite him for a feast on Ramzan and why can't he be a friend to a Hindu that he be invited for a party by the HIndu on Deepawali

i am not responsible for his views.

 

[ashokdeiva]

i am not responsible for his views.

hope you now get how irrational his posts were, i had to aruge so long to make you and Janubaba realize that there is a better way to a secular life via friendship and not by making a Islamic state.

 

[Rafael]

Its funny how different sections of our media has made this nation a shuttle **** between secularism and Islamism, based on their respective agendas.

Its not about the Islamism or secularism, Its about the rule of law. No matter what type of system you set up, unless there is check and balances for the Govt. itself and richer populace, Its not gonna work.

Remember : An infidel society can exist, but an unjust society cannot! - Hazrat Ali (r.a)

 

[Leader]

Its funny how different sections of our media has made this nation a shuttle **** between secularism and Islamism, based on their respective agendas.

Its not about the Islamism or secularism, Its about the rule of law. No matter what type of system you set up, unless there is check and balances for the Govt. itself and richer populace, Its not gonna work.

Remember : An infidel society can exist, but an unjust society cannot! - Hazrat Ali (r.a)

exactly........ first think of getting out of the mess we are in, first think of giving justice to masses, then think of some other non issues, masses dont have food to eat, while you are crying what to name the system ?

bacha howa nahi or naam per jhagra ho raha hai...

 

[*Awan*]

hope you now get how irrational his posts were, i had to aruge so long to make you and Janubaba realize that there is a better way to a secular life via friendship and not by making a Islamic state.

i don't understand what exactly is problem with you people?
you have your country and we have ours.what type of system you implement in your country its your problem and we dont have any thing to do with it.but when it comes to our country why you people have cramps?

 

[Banana]

i don't understand what exactly is problem with you people?
you have your country and we have ours.what type of system you implement in your country its your problem and we dont have any thing to do with it.but when it comes to our country why you people have cramps?

Another Ignorant Rant!

As long as your action don't affect us, We don't care!

The Day people like Janubaba come to impose Islam(as your ancestors were converted) on us, We do have a Say!

 

[*Awan*]

Another Ignorant Rant!

As long as your action don't affect us, We don't care!

The Day people like Janubaba come to impose Islam(as your ancestors were converted) on us, We do have a Say!

who told you this?
we avoid discussion with you because you people dont know abc of topic but keep ranting.here we are talking about what type of system we have in Pakistan?
now how exactly you people will get effected by this?

 

[Janubaba]

Its funny how different sections of our media has made this nation a shuttle **** between secularism and Islamism, based on their respective agendas.

Its not about the Islamism or secularism, Its about the rule of law. No matter what type of system you set up, unless there is check and balances for the Govt. itself and richer populace, Its not gonna work.

Remember : An infidel society can exist, but an unjust society cannot! - Hazrat Ali (r.a)

Sorry Sir Muslim Society can only accept those rules which are according to Islam no other rules can be accepted it is the battle between Islamic System and system of kufr

 

[Banana]

who told you this?
we avoid discussion with you because you people dont know abc of topic but keep ranting.here we are talking about what type of system we have in Pakistan?
now how exactly you people will get effected by this?

I am talking about above kind of posts!

Seems you have a deep comprehension problem!

 

[ashokdeiva]

Sorry Sir Muslim Society can only accept those rules which are according to Islam no other rules can be accepted it is the battle between Islamic System and system of kufr

Every system was established to abolish the bad habits of the society and to make people go in the correct path. not that Islam is secular and hence everybody has to follow Islam in-order to become a secular person, your(Janubaba) idea is completely flawed in that sense. If you look closely you can observe that Cristians in Church say "Aamen", Muslims in Mosqe say "Ameen" and Hindus in Temple use the mantra "Aam". Does that not mean that we might have evolved from a common ansystry something that we are not aware of. Learn to co-exist and be the change to the times. These age old traditions and belief needs a constant facelift to the changing times and if you say that we are prepared to die of the cost of upholding the Islamic radical terms, then it is your choice to be left alone in this planet.
I don't know how much you have suffered when you hear about your race or religion getting discriminated, but I have suffered the slaughter of my race "Tamils" at the hands of Sri Lankans and I have come over my anger on them to understand that co-existance will prove worth when we die.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I dont think (realistically) a secular system can be adopted in Pakistan.

As long as the law protects all religious groups from harm or threats; as long as the masses know to live & let live -- and as long as everyone has equal opportunities -- then there is no need to have a secular system

I think that Pakistanis should always remember Jinnah Sahib's vision for Pakistan. They should study the Pakistani flag and understand what it means.

 

[muse]

I dont think (realistically) a secular system can be adopted in Pakistan.

As long as the law protects all religious groups from harm or threats; as long as the masses know to live & let live -- and as long as everyone has equal opportunities -- then there is no need to have a secular system

I think that Pakistanis should always remember Jinnah Sahib's vision for Pakistan. They should study the Pakistani flag and understand what it means.

Abu Zolfikar

What you have pointed to is, secularism

Religion has a role to play in culture and conscience and politics is many things including the exercise of conscience, and politics and governance are fellow travelers -- However, what you seem to be confused about, is the suggestion, that religion is the totality of governance.

Most Pakistanis and a good number of Indians going the responses, don't have a clue as to what "secularism" means - they are convinced that it is either the Islamist "Ladeenyat" instead of the original "Ilmaniyat" ---- Or they have the marxist, "subjective secularism" in mind where religion is expunged from conscience, from culture --


objective secularism" to denote institutional and functional separation of religion from politics. As such, it is distinct from "subjective secularism" which entails eradication of religion from culture and mind of the people.



It's also clear to me that most of the respondents did not read the lead article - I encourage you to read the lead article and also review the following thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/120709-iran-secular-muslim-conscience.html#post1954286

For the Islamists - and I differentiate these from Muslims, their understanding is a totalitarian vision, complete with words "System" and "way of life", for Muslims of course, it is plainly obvious:

"The meaning of perfection of religion (Ekmal e Din) is not that it contains everything under the sun, so that if we were unable to find a specific item in it, we could go off calling it imperfect. It is not perfection for religion to function as a substitute for science, technology, and human deliberation

 

[muse]

sorry - duplicate post

 

[rubyjackass]

The suggestion is forwarded by a muslim initially, so in the light of basic definition he was answered in my post.If a non muslim proposes this suggestion of secularism to a muslim then first instead of arguing with him about his suggestion he should be first asked about the basic understandings of Islam and should be asked about what weaknesses he is seeing in it.That is exactly the reason why you asked about non muslims.So making an argument first here with you is not adviseable rather you should take little pain in understanding what Islam is saying about non muslims.

An Islamic state is bound to distinguish (i.e. discriminates) between Muslims and non-Muslims. However the Islamic law "Shari`a" guarantees to non-Muslims "certain specifically stated rights beyond which they are not permitted to meddle in the affairs of the state because they do not subscribe to its ideology." Once they embrace the Islamic faith, they "become equal participants in all matters concerning the state and the government."

“There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)

The Rights of Non-Muslims in Islam (part 1 of 13): An Islamic Basis - The Religion of Islam

Nice line of argument. You have completely watered down whatever was said in the article of the first post. If indeed Secularism cannot override Islam and that Islam is not incompatible with secularism, what is the point of going for 'secularism'? Islamiyat is as good. This is a blowing argument against all people who want secularism and try to promote it by saying Islam sanctions it.