VIEW: Recognising our common interest

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir,

Musharraf is not the right person for the job, he'll always be regarded as a General and therefor he'll be hated. He may appear on TV a zillion times, he'll not reach the mass, i.e. the rural population. Easier way to reach the simple and illeterate parts of the society would be thru PTV drama's and independant talk shows which are popular throughout the country. We're in seventh year since 9/11, one patriotic and realistic tv serial a year would have given the comon man a much better idea of the situation.
This may sound idiotic and childish but we're dealing with a huge part of the county which is ill developped and therefor vulnerable to 'dangerous' clergy.

We can not undo the damage in terms of lives, assets or image but we can prevent it from getting worse.

I consider madrassah's or the concept of it to be useless and out of time since modern educational system can provide excellent teaching of Islam with much more value added than these madrassah's do.

Neo,

I understand exactly what you are conveying.

Unlike the hatred and distancing from the commonality that some members display, the Indo Pak scenario is the same as congenital twins and like Bombay films, lost at childbirth!

The problems that you experience is the same as what we experience here and I find that it is so similar.

It makes me sad to learn that Musharraf is not reaching out. He has reached out to me.

Yes, I am an Indian and everything Pakistani should be disliked by me, but I am afraid, that type of sentiment does not overpower me.

True the illiterates should be reached with drama on TV and so is the case here in India. Nothing surprising! I wish you well (though Proud to be Pakistani would still not believe and Peace be Upon P2bP) as I wish my own country well and hope sense prevails.

It is sad that the clergy has such a hold in Pakistan. Fortunately, believe it or not, the fanatics here do not have such a huge hold. I will be frank, religion is not material in India. But when those who make religion an issue in governance or society, be they of any hue, it rankles. I assure you so, since you are aware that I belong to an multi religion and multi national family.

I beg to differ about maddrasse being antediluvian. They have their place in a poor society where education is an expensive pursuit. But they should be monitored to give quality education that equip the students in the goodness of religion and yet at the same time, do not forget to equip them to face modern life.

My own state is doing the same and doing it well!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM,

Reforms are not adequate.

The source of funding is essential.

If Saudis are financing, I am sure they are not paying good money to spread Sufism!

Or promote Ahmediyyas or Bohras.

 

[fatman17]

Imho government has failed to win public support for Pakistan's role in WoT.

Had the comon man be informed or educated about the identified goals and friends or foe's in the WoT there would have been less misconception about it. Many interpret WoT as War against Islam where the west is regarded as bigger enemy than the AQ.

Mullah's and extremists have exploited this misconception and will continue to do so unless Government takes actions to convince the comon man that bigger threat is from inside our own country, the uneducated mullah's and extremists.

dont u think in general the common man is against the mullah's and extremists who r being influenced by al-qaeda and taliban. so what is the best strategy - go after the mullah's and extremists with extreme prejudice. its the only way to stop them now.

 

[Neo]

The urban population is against mullah's and extremists, rural area's is a different story, feudal lords make decicions.
To my understanding some of these area's have a history of fighting the government, they'll support talibans or extremists for personal gains.

I still think going secular course is our best option, seperate religion from politics and ban mullahism.

 

[fatman17]

The urban population is against mullah's and extremists, rural area's is a different story, feudal lords make decicions.
To my understanding some of these area's have a history of fighting the government, they'll support talibans or extremists for personal gains.

I still think going secular course is our best option, seperate religion from politics and ban mullahism.

in my line of work i travel extensively in rural areas of punjab and sindh and i dont find support for the extremists and mullahs except for the fringe element which is everywhere. having said that i have not travelled in rural areas of NWFP and Balochistan where your view can be supported. feudals are not extremists in punjab and sindh. their basic purpose in life is to keep the status quo in their area of influence. the tribes of NWFP and Balochistan is a different story.

 

[IceCold]

Pakistan is rooting out terrorism fine but what about the country who's the center of all problems of terrorism suddenly comes out with false accusations of pakistan being the central hub for terrorism and these so called freedom librators certainly find the bloody afghans right and us wrong with suggestions of putting more and more pressure on to pakistan even threatning to intervene if pakistan's fails. Now when pakistanies see this biased attitude of the western world and a constant rant against pakistan's nuclear programe which holds a significant emotional part of pakistanes, it will not be hard for them to see that this war is not against terrorism but against islam and pakistan, and then when all of the certain pakistanies are blamed of being riducle and fanatics will only add fuel to the fire.
The West in paticular the US needs to change their attitude otherwise more and more pakistanies will be forced too see this war against islam and not for the cause it was meant.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

The West in paticular the US needs to change their attitude otherwise more and more pakistanies will be forced too see this war against islam and not for the cause it was meant.

Their is no other eye to see it with IceCold ...

The compaign is against Islam and sooner or later people eyes will open but the time for reaction will soon pass. True that there is no option right now to curb the fundamentalism but its not the cause of Terrorism in the world but pure retaliation to unjust and unlawful acts by the people controlling the world.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If it is indeed a War against Islam, then how come the Pakistan govt and other Islamic govt are participating in the same?

Does not make sense!

 

[imranalichaudhry]

I do not dispute what you have said. However, since you raise 1971 I would say that if there had been any other Indian PM other than Mrs Gandhi, he or she would not have the guts to do 1971.

Revenge, at least I feel, is not the ideal to base foreign policy. If that were profitable, then India should never have become friendly with the US.

Permanent interest should be the case.

If the geostrategic reason is what compelled the involvement of Pakistan in Afghanistan, then it is well and good.

However, to carry on allowing the radicals to cause chaos in Afghanistan and not realising that it would one day spill over, especially because there was common ethnicity along the Durand Line, was shortsighted. Or, who knows, he may have done it well realising what would happen.

He sure, through the ISI, could have contained the wild behaviour of the Taleban.

It is true that Pakistan is now addressing the problem, but then Pakistan could have well done without this problem.

I think our country itself was responsible for 1971. India would have been daft to miss the opportunity. It was crass west pakistani exploitation and a flawed military doctrine, in addition to not transferring power to Mujib which led to the disintegration of Pakistan.

 

[mujahideen]

I think our country itself was responsible for 1971. India would have been daft to miss the opportunity. It was crass west pakistani exploitation and a flawed military doctrine, in addition to not transferring power to Mujib which led to the disintegration of Pakistan.

Your right. We could blame India, Russia, U.S. or any other country for our failure but the fact remains that we have only ourselves to blame. If such a situation were to occur in India we also would of taken advantage of it. We are quick to blame others without first looking at our flaws. The fact is why did we let outsiders to take advantage of us.

 

[imranalichaudhry]

The urban population is against mullah's and extremists, rural area's is a different story, feudal lords make decicions.
To my understanding some of these area's have a history of fighting the government, they'll support talibans or extremists for personal gains.

I still think going secular course is our best option, seperate religion from politics and ban mullahism.

Lal Masjid was a turning point in Pakistan's history. We should not have gone in. In another four days, they would have starved and come out.
I dont know how many of you belong to the tribal areas. One tradition is that they do not forgive "maut".
Violence begets violence, and we are reaping the rewards now.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Yeah, 4 more days to starve---what an analogy---then they would have come out as MARTYRS---not afraid of death----every muslim should be afraid of death---read the hadees of the prophet Mohammad---donot ask or desire death---a muslim never desires death---every muslim will have to answer for the life that was given to him by ALLAH---Allah our lord will ask on the day of judgement as to who gave us the right to take our lives---muslims are extremely non-chalant about giving taway their lives even though they are strictly forbidden to do so.

The red mosque was given too much time, too much tv exposure and hostage negotiators who were not competent in dealing with terrorists.

 

[imranalichaudhry]

Hi,

Yeah, 4 more days to starve---what an analogy---then they would have come out as MARTYRS---not afraid of death----every muslim should be afraid of death---read the hadees of the prophet Mohammad---donot ask or desire death---a muslim never desires death---every muslim will have to answer for the life that was given to him by ALLAH---Allah our lord will ask on the day of judgement as to who gave us the right to take our lives---muslims are extremely non-chalant about giving taway their lives even though they are strictly forbidden to do so.

The red mosque was given too much time, too much tv exposure and hostage negotiators who were not competent in dealing with terrorists.

Look, did you not make them martyrs after the operation. By starving i meant they would have given them up. It is not important what you and i think, the mind of the victim and the victim's relatives is important.
Violence never solves anything. Have we been able to protect our law enforcement agencies, our intelligence agency personnel who embraced shahadat against the suicide bomber? No.
We should stop behaving like George Bush and understand that all shades of Pakistanis are humans, be they religiously inclined, be they balochi, sindhi pathan or punjabi. Dividing Pakistan into friend and enemy or normal and extremist will not solve anything. We will hit them, they will hit back. We must embrace all , listen to them ,and find solutions based on compromise.
Why did all suicide bombings take place in the last one and a half years. They were very rare earlier.
I think the negotiators had almost reached a compromise before the bloodbath began. And it has never ended.
We must look at the root causes of terrorism and extremism and have a long term integrated policy. Only then would this nation find peace

 

[Neo]

in my line of work i travel extensively in rural areas of punjab and sindh and i dont find support for the extremists and mullahs except for the fringe element which is everywhere. having said that i have not travelled in rural areas of NWFP and Balochistan where your view can be supported. feudals are not extremists in punjab and sindh. their basic purpose in life is to keep the status quo in their area of influence. the tribes of NWFP and Balochistan is a different story.

Sir,

You won't find extremism on the streets in the rural area's but most of them are recruited and brainwashed from the less develop parts of the country. I too have had the priviledge to travell across the country and my general conception is that rural area's are not very politically involved, its the landlords running the shows.

 

[fatman17]

Sir,

You won't find extremism on the streets in the rural area's but most of them are recruited and brainwashed from the less develop parts of the country. I too have had the priviledge to travell across the country and my general conception is that rural area's are not very politically involved, its the landlords running the shows.

my dear Neo,

we r saying the same thing - only differently!