Vietnam’s deficit with China rises 12.5% to $32.3bn

[Nike]

Before the civil war, Syria was one of the most advanced countries in the region. It's health care was world class. Now everything is destroyed. Turkey is on the surface stable and strong but it is now like a powder keg that is beginning to explode. 8 German tourists died today by a suicide terrorist. Turkey tourism t ind
ustry and the overall economy will dive if not collapse. Not only because of Russia sanctions but many fundamental weaknesses of the Turkey.

But we are again off topic.


With the pace the Turkish lira sinking, 25 per cent minus against the Dollar last year, we may catch up in some years. Nothing can't last forever.

what the hell, Turkish economy is doing good and they are one of the best performer in Europe and middle east. Terrorism and separatism been lingeering Turk since so long but that didn't affect their economic performance in most area. Their economic is been matured and developed in such way and their industrial is base much more better than Vietnam. Not to mention they are G20 member with 800 billion US dollar economy, Vietnam need decades to catch up with Turks if only Turkey growth is being halted at all

I can tagged you any Turkish member here

 

[dichoi]

we have reduce import materials from China.

 

[Aepsilons]

what the hell, Turkish economy is doing good and they are one of the best performer in Europe and middle east. Terrorism and separatism been lingeering Turk since so long but that didn't affect their economic performance in most area. Their economic is been matured and developed in such way and their industrial is base much more better than Vietnam. Not to mention they are G20 member with 800 billion US dollar economy, Vietnam need decades to catch up with Turks if only Turkey growth is being halted at all

I can tagged you any Turkish member here

Speak on, sister.

Before the civil war, Syria was one of the most advanced countries in the region. It's health care was world class. Now everything is destroyed. Turkey is on the surface stable and strong but it is now like a powder keg that is beginning to explode. 8 German tourists died today by a suicide terrorist. Turkey tourism industry and the overall economy will dive if not collapse. Not only because of Russia sanctions but many fundamental weaknesses of the Turkey.

But we are again off topic.


With the pace the Turkish lira sinking, 25 per cent minus against the Dollar last year, we may catch up in some years. Nothing can't last forever.

My friend, there is no comparison between Turkey and Syria. Let us be frank here, shall we?

 

[LittleFish]

Indeed Viet fruits are expensive here and we usually choose our own. But I have no idea you even import ours By the way, I can't tell the difference between so-called "Vietnam Red-Inside Pitaya" and "Domestic White-Inside Pitaya", they are all tasteless and should be eaten with some honey added.

 

[TaiShang]

The moral for Vietnam of the entire debate is "You cannot escape China economically" because China is the world's most economically relevant country.

 

[Aepsilons]

The moral for Vietnam of the entire debate is "You cannot escape China economically" because China is the world's most economically relevant country.

Trying to understand the Vietnamese state position is always interesting, my friend. I suppose we have to also be sensitive of Hanoi's sensibilities in trying to paint a realistic picture of the situation; what the Vietnamese are trying to do -- in the quest to pact with the TPP -- is to limit the dependence on Chinese trade, and to increase trade levels Vietnam has with other large economies such as the United States, Japan, Canada, Australia, et al. The trade levels with China is growing , no doubt about that, but I suppose there is much potential Vietnam can ta on to integration with the Japanese and American market(s).

Honestly and directly speaking here , I doubt the Vietnamese dependence on China will cease any time soon -- given the direct location of Vietnam and its proximity to China , after all they both share a land border , but in context to Hanoi -- it would be integral to their national state interest to decrease the level of produce dependency on China , and I see that they can do this -- by integrating with Japanese and American economies -- through the TPP. Tho I personally believe that it will be near impossible for Vietnam to severe economic ties with China (i also think it would be an unwise decision to do so), but it would be integral to their state economic sovereignty objectives to increase trade partners and to decrease reliance on any sole trade partner.

Indeed Viet fruits are expensive here and we usually choose our own. But I have no idea you even import ours By the way, I can't tell the difference between so-called "Vietnam Red-Inside Pitaya" and "Domestic White-Inside Pitaya", they are all tasteless and should be eaten with some honey added.

I believe the cost difference is due in part to the tariff system set in place between Hanoi and Beijing. If Hanoi and Beijing were to sign an FTA , one would see the price reduce substantially.

The moral for Vietnam of the entire debate is "You cannot escape China economically" because China is the world's most economically relevant country.

It reminds me of a political term when describing the relationship of two states; one being larger and more influential than the other --- Political and cultural satellitism. I suppose in the interest of Hanoi's sovereignty and party legitimacy, they don't want to be seen as a satellite of the CPC, which rules the PRC. So we have to understand carefully worded political stances by the Vietnamese Government. I suppose this is the reason why governments utilize carefully worded political statements whenever significant policies are implemented. Given Vietnam's unique historical relationship with China, it makes sense why their patriots prefer to use carefully worded political statements that emphasizes Vietnamese sovereignty and independence. China, as the larger state entity, should be understanding of this inter-state relationship; given she occupies the position of strength.

 

[TaiShang]

Trying to understand the Vietnamese state position is always interesting, my friend. I suppose we have to also be sensitive of Hanoi's sensibilities in trying to paint a realistic picture of the situation; what the Vietnamese are trying to do -- in the quest to pact with the TPP -- is to limit the dependence on Chinese trade, and to increase trade levels Vietnam has with other large economies such as the United States, Japan, Canada, Australia, et al. The trade levels with China is growing , no doubt about that, but I suppose there is much potential Vietnam can ta on to integration with the Japanese and American market(s).

Integration, but at what cost? I read a paper recently mentioning the situation in Latin America when they were being attached to the global (Western) economy from the 70s onward. The situation was such that they received lots of FDI from the US and the rest of the developed world in the industry and services but this ultimately resulted in the rooting out of the domestic sectors since they failed to compete against the powerful peers. They failed comprehensive industrialization.

On this, Vietnam has a better shot in terms of maintaining its own nascent sectors against the "still" less dominant Chinese peers than traditional Western heavyweights.

Vietnam's concerns are understandable and I am sure they are doing what they think is the best for their country. But, the statistical reality suggests that even with TPP they won't be entirely cut off from China. Playing with TPP option is nice, but TPP must not give an un-called-for boost in morale to the degree that they burn all the bridges with China. I would only suggest Hanoi to maintain a multilateral, multi-party strategy, with the West as well as with the region and China.

Honestly and directly speaking here , I doubt the Vietnamese dependence on China will cease any time soon -- given the direct location of Vietnam and its proximity to China , after all they both share a land border , but in context to Hanoi -- it would be integral to their national state interest to decrease the level of produce dependency on China , and I see that they can do this -- by integrating with Japanese and American economies -- through the TPP. Tho I personally believe that it will be near impossible for Vietnam to severe economic ties with China (i also think it would be an unwise decision to do so), but it would be integral to their state economic sovereignty objectives to increase trade partners and to decrease reliance on any sole trade partner.

That's the same geographical reality that I mention in the context of China and Japan (or Russia-Korea). Geography/logistics can be a burden or a blessing. It is up to Vietnam to turn its unchangeable geographical proximity with China into a further blessing. If Vietnam comes to China with offers to realistically reduce the dependency through (perhaps) new customs regime or some extra Chinese investment, China would not object it. In the end, it is the demand and supply dynamics that are in play. What is imprudent is to use the dependency argument to sever ties with China or attempt to join other hostile blocs on this ground.

Vietnam should be able to learn to compartmentalize its relations with China. I am not saying they are not doing that (I respect Vietnamese government's prudence), but further constructive steps can be taken.

Political and cultural satellitism

That's a nice terminology, my friend, thank you for bringing to my attention. Perhaps, it is a term from the ideological Cold War years. This "satellite syndrome" China also suffered from and Vietnam's position is understandable.

 

[Aepsilons]

Integration, but at what cost? I read a paper recently mentioning the situation in Latin America when they were being attached to the global (Western) economy form the 70s onward. The situation was such that they received lots of FDI from the US in the industry and services but this ultimately resulted in the rooting out of the domestic sectors since they failed to compete against the powerful peers.

On this, Vietnam has a better shot in terms of maintaining its own nascent sectors against the "still" less dominant Chinese peers than traditional Western heavyweights.

Vietnam's concerns are understandable and I am sure they are doing what they think is the best for their country. But, the statistical reality suggests that even with TPP they won't be entirely cut off from China. Playing with TPP option is nice, but TPP must not give an un-called-for boost in morale to the degree that they burn all the bridges with China. I would only suggest Hanoi to maintain a multilateral, multi-party strategy, with the West as well as with the region and China.

LET me be direct with you @TaiShang my friend, given the current political environment of the United States right now, it seems that both the democrats and republicans in the United States seem to be unsatisfied with the recent agreement in the TPP. There are even talks of the possibility of the United States giving in "too much" to Japan, and other key TPP members, lol. Or have you not read or listened to the remarks of Mr. Jeb Bush, Mr. Marco Rubio, Mr. Ted Cruz and even Mr. Donald Trump? Seems like the Republicans are keen on reversing this agreement, and also the Iran Nuclear Agreement. So we have to understand the critical juncture we are in right now, as the TPP goes through a critical phase. We have to also understand that even the Japanese Government has yet to conclude the TPP, although Mr. Abe seems to be very vocally in support of it. It has yet to even pass approval in the Shugiin (Lower House) and the Sangiin (Upper House) of the National Diet. Nor has the Emperor signed it, lol.

That's a nice terminology, my friend, thank you for bringing to my attention. Perhaps, it is a term from the ideological Cold War years. This "satellite syndrome" China also suffered from and Vietnam's position is understandable.

Yes, it is exactly just that. It is a terminology from Cold War processes. The problem, the jist of the issue between Vietnam and China, in my honest opinion, is this retention of Cold War mentality, which has led to the maintenance of friction between China and Vietnam, despite the massive trade between the two states. I suppose it is without ado that both Vietnam and China make a cold start -- if there is to be a realistic solution to the issue in the south china seas.

 

[TaiShang]

LET me be direct with you @TaiShang my friend, given the current political environment of the United States right now, it seems that both the democrats and republicans in the United States seem to be unsatisfied with the recent agreement in the TPP. There are even talks of the possibility of the United States giving in "too much" to Japan, and other key TPP members, lol. Or have you not read or listened to the remarks of Mr. Jeb Bush, Mr. Marco Rubio, Mr. Ted Cruz and even Mr. Donald Trump? Seems like the Republicans are keen on reversing this agreement, and also the Iran Nuclear Agreement. So we have to understand the critical juncture we are in right now, as the TPP goes through a critical phase. We have to also understand that even the Japanese Government has yet to conclude the TPP, although Mr. Abe seems to be very vocally in support of it. It has yet to even pass approval in the Shugiin (Lower House) and the Sangiin (Upper House) of the National Diet. Nor has the Emperor signed it, lol.

That's the problem with the TPP after the US forcefully wrested it over from the original founders in its bid to "counter and contain" China" in every possible way. It must have looked pretty nice for Mrs. Clinton's personal charms, but, in the end, they really politicized the TPP way too much, even Mr. Obama, in his defence of the TPP, said "if we (by "we" read the US) do not write rules, China will." Well, China keeps writing trade rules and TPP is no more an economic bloc, but a geopolitical one. This does not really suit well within the "Asian regional dynamics." Hence probably one of the reasons why sensible countries in the region attempt to distance themselves from the "politicized aspects" of the TPP.

Also, as you mentioned, when the US took so much powers in the TPP, TPP itself became an extension of the US' dysfunctional and contagious domestic politics. It was become arrested by it. Hence nobody knows what will happen with TPP if the regime in the US changes with a Hawkish Trump or someone like him assuming power.

On the nuclear deal, US was not the only country at the table, it was P5+1, although the US being the most important actor. I believe the deal can be salvaged even with the US renegading on its commitments under another regime.

 

[Aepsilons]

That's the problem with the TPP after the US forcefully wrested it over from the original founders in its bid to "counter and contain" China" in every possible way. It must have looked pretty nice for Mrs. Clinton's personal charms, but, in the end, they really politicized the TPP way too much, even Mr. Obama, in his defence of the TPP, said "if we (by "we" read the US) do not write rules, China will." Well, China keeps writing trade rules and TPP is no more an economic bloc, but a geopolitical one. This does not really suit well within the "Asian regional dynamics." Hence probably one of the reasons why sensible countries in the region attempt to distance themselves from the "politicized aspects" of the TPP.

Also, as you mentioned, when the US took so much powers in the TPP, TPP itself became an extension of the US' dysfunctional and contagious domestic politics. It was become arrested by it. Hence nobody knows what will happen with TPP if the regime in the US changes with a Hawkish Trump or someone like him assuming power.

On the nuclear deal, US was not the only country at the table, it was P5+1, although the being the most important actor. I believe the deal can be salvaged even with the US renegading on its commitments under another regime.

 

[sicsheep]

No, it's you chinese here and there who claims to be the new superman superpower superior race of the world. The likelihood China turns into Syria is 100 times higher. You have ethnic clashes, domestic as well as foreign terrorists while we haven't.

LOL i think you just described the USA.

 

[Monkey King]

Vietnam is heavily influenced by Chinese Confucius culcture and is sometimes considered as the East Asia culture sphere. Also Vietnam puts much focus on the education as indicated by their good results in PISA test. So I think Vietnam would be the most prosperous country in Southeast Asia in 20-30 years. I hope China and Vietnam can get along well with each other.

 

[dichoi]

The moral for Vietnam of the entire debate is "You cannot escape China economically" because China is the world's most economically relevant country.

This is eco interest, not moral.

 

[TaiShang]

This is eco interest, not moral.

I mean "lesson," not "ethics" in the sense of seeking underlying beauty/coherence in phenomena, my friend. It is definitely not beautiful on the international plane.

But what I meant was that Vietnam cannot escape geography as well as international political economy.

 

[dichoi]

I mean "lesson," not "ethics" in the sense of seeking underlying beauty/coherence in phenomena, my friend. It is definitely not beautiful on the international plane.

But what I meant was that Vietnam cannot escape geography as well as international political economy.

I thought that "the moral" there is a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do. So why I do not agree with you.

We do know that in China, Chinese are brainwashed with propaganda "The Heaven is far, but China is in nearby". It is correct in the past, not to nowadays. We are no needed escape from you.