Vietnamese old pictures

[Viet]

Han Chinese is an ethnicity, not race. There's only 4 types of race. Mix-blood refers to inter-race. All East Asians, specially Han Chinese, has a distinct gene marker 03, from 70% to 90%. This is extremely dominant as there are no 100% in any genetics makeup. We are actually more homogenous than others, except the amazon tribes.

Ethnicity is both cultural and genetic. The ancient sinitic people in China since Huaxia share the same 03 halo group. Even Tibetan, though they are not culturally Han.
Vietnam is Austroasiatic. They have some Han 03, but not significant. Their language is non-sinitic. So no, they are not Han Chinese.

View attachment 182255

the viet people spoke a sinic language before shifting to non-sinic (mon-khmer) when Le Loi came to power (14 century). @Grand Historian, correct?
Le Loi came from Thanh Hoa province, which lies further south.

Most Viet last name are Nguyen, Pham, Le.

yes, nguyen is a very common family name. similar to kim in korea.

 

[Fattyacids]

I don´t know from where you get the idea. No, that is wrong. the viets ancestor came from taiwan 5,000 years ago. that is a proven fact. the first chinese ethnic (later becoming the viets) settled down in red river delta (thanh long, hanoi) before spreading to other regions. dna studies show the viet have chromosome genetics from southern chinese and mongolian migrants.

we have no links to laotian and cambodian people, neither culture nor custom nor genetics. in ancient times, we considered the non-kinh people as uncivilzed folks, barbarians (moi). we looked down on them. intermarriages between the kinh and non-kinh are virtually non-existent. over 1,000 years we have no common border with cambodia, that changed after we annexed champa. when vietnam colonized cambodia (after taking the country from siam), we forced them to adopt vietnamese law and order. pls see the study of harvard medicin school.

Austronesien: Südseebewohner: Aus Taiwan über Vietnam nach Polynesien? - Spektrum der Wissenschaft
Reconstructing Austronesian population history in Island Southeast Asia : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

The paper attempt to reconstruct prehistoric "Austronesian expansion", but "the ancestry of present-day Austronesian-speaking populations remains controversial." The entire South East Asia is Austronesian.

Vietnamese 03 Y Chromosome is the result of 1000 year of Chinese rule and civilization. Also, the reason why you are culturally different from Laotian and Cambodian, and why you looked down on them as less civilized, though you are all Austronesian. Let's be honest, Vietnamese civilized history period begin during Chinese rule. Without which, Vietnam especially Hanoi, would be very very different today.

 

[Viet]

The paper attempt to reconstruct prehistoric "Austronesian expansion", but "the ancestry of present-day Austronesian-speaking populations remains controversial." The entire South East Asia is Austronesian.

Vietnamese 03 Y Chromosome is the result of 1000 year of Chinese rule and civilization. Also, the reason why you are culturally different from Laotian and Cambodian, and why you looked down on them as less civilized, though you are all Austronesian. Let's be honest, Vietnamese civilized history period begin during Chinese rule. Without which, Vietnam especially Hanoi, would be very very different today.

I don´t need to convince you.

The entire South East Asia is Austronesian? No, you should know there was no regional concept of "South East Asia" before WWII. it was a creation of the white man. Vietnam has existed as independent nation for 1,000 years before the creation of "South East Asia".
158 – The emergence of the regional concept: South East Asia | DiploFoundation

Surely, the ancestry of present-day Austronesian-speaking populations remains controversial, because today we know more than yesterday. a lot of researches still need to be done. we know the people of champa most likely came from indonesia islands. but where do indonesian people come from? do you know where the chinese come from?

you are right. without the invasion of the Han army in 111bc and annextion of nanyue, vietnam history would look different today. all speculations. vietnam could speak instead mon-khmer a different language.

 

[Fattyacids]

I don´t need to convince you.

The entire South East Asia is Austronesian? No, you should know there was no regional concept of "South East Asia" before WWII. it was a creation of the white man. Vietnam has existed as independent nation for 1,000 years before the creation of "South East Asia".
158 – The emergence of the regional concept: South East Asia | DiploFoundation

Surely, the ancestry of present-day Austronesian-speaking populations remains controversial, because today we know more than yesterday. a lot of researches still need to be done. we know the people of champa most likely came from indonesia islands. but where do indonesian people come from? do you know where the chinese come from?

you are right. without the invasion of the Han army in 111bc and annextion of nanyue, vietnam history would look different today. all speculations. vietnam could speak instead mon-khmer a different language.

The definition of "Austronesian" is independent of geography. When and who coined the term South East Asia is irrelevant.

We are talking historic era, you asking question abt prehistoric, which is a different topic altogether.
Are you telling me ancient pre-sinizied Vietnamese had nothing do with people of Lao whom you share the longest border with? Your historians, like most PDF viet, suffered a variant of stockholm syndrome, they like to identify more with their overlord Han whom they also hate, but denied any link with the less civilized Laotian.

There was no Vietnamese identity during the time of Zhao Tuo. Throughout the short lived Nanyue, it was either independent or vassal to Han. Vietnam sinization process began from Nanyue, it does not equate to Nanyue is vietnam.

 

[Viet]

The definition of "Austronesian" is independent of geography. When and who coined the term South East Asia is irrelevant.

not geography related? did you state previously: the people of southeast asia are austronesians?
when google "Austronesian", it comes up this map. interesting, vietnam is not on the map. can you explain it?

Austronesian languages -- Kids Encyclopedia | Children's Homework Help | Kids Online Dictionary | Britannica
Austronesian languages

We are talking historic era, you asking question abt prehistoric, which is a different topic altogether.
Are you telling me ancient pre-sinizied Vietnamese had nothing do with people of Lao whom you share the longest border with? Your historians, like most PDF viet, suffered a variant of stockholm syndrome, they like to identify more with their overlord Han whom they also hate, but denied any link with the less civilized Laotian.

Pls share with me your knowledge on the viet and laotian people, what they had in common! yes, I am interested of the period you are talking about, the pre-sini period.

There was no Vietnamese identity during the time of Zhao Tuo. Throughout the short lived Nanyue, it was either independent or vassal to Han. Vietnam sinization process began from Nanyue, it does not equate to Nanyue is vietnam.

there was no chinese identity, either.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

there was no chinese identity, either.

We were previously known as Huaxia.

 

[dichoi]

Han Chinese is an ethnicity, not race. There's only 4 types of race. Mix-blood refers to inter-race. All East Asians, specially Han Chinese, has a distinct gene marker 03. This is extremely dominant as there are no 100% in any genetics makeup. We are actually more homogenous than others, except the amazon tribes.

Ethnicity is both cultural and genetic. The ancient sinitic people in China since Huaxia share the same 03 halo group. Even Tibetan, though they are not culturally Han.
Vietnam is Austroasiatic. They have some Han 03, but not significant. Their language is non-sinitic. So no, they are not Han Chinese.

View attachment 182255

Vietnamese shared O2b ADN with Korean and Japanese, which Han chinese don't has. This is evidence proof for that Vietnamese settled to Vietnam from North Asia in ancient time.

 

[EastSea]

Vietnamese shared O2b ADN with Korean and Japanese, which Han chinese don't has. This is evidence that Vietnamese settled to Vietnam from North Asia in ancient time.

So really true, bro. Don't forget that our ancestors stayed in Southern China. There was Van Lang Kingdom of us reached to Ho Ton country (malayo). Note that Champa people settled to Yue Chang (Việt Thường) of Van Lang earlier than BCE. Champa was new comer.

 

[Fattyacids]

not geography related? did you state previously: the people of southeast asia are austronesians?
when google "Austronesian", it comes up this map. interesting, vietnam is not on the map. can you explain it?

Austronesian languages -- Kids Encyclopedia | Children's Homework Help | Kids Online Dictionary | Britannica
Austronesian languages

This map is Malay-polynesian, it's a subgroup of Austroasiatic. Selective bias? Didn't you claim your ancestor came from Taiwan, the paper you posted clearly read, "Austronesian Expansion."

Austronesian refers to people and also language, which can invariably relate to the geographical area that they live in, but it's not a geographical denotation by itself.

Pls share with me your knowledge on the viet and laotian people, what they had in common! yes, I am interested of the period you are talking about, the pre-sini period.

Prior to Chinese rule, there were no written record of any form, but Lao and Champa were close by. Enter Han Chinese troop in Hanoi, the people got sinizied, and they created an unique identity that is based in Chinese culture. Due to this sinicization process, you associate with us. No? Here's the absurdity, after sinicization, your historians turned around and claimed Nanyue as your own. But was there a Vietnamese kingdom or entity that is representative of Nanyue before Zhuo Tuo came? No. It was like a Wild West frontier, to use an American term.

there was no chinese identity, either.

No Chinese identity? Zhou Tuo must be Russian name, Han dynasty is Siberian.

 

[Fattyacids]

Vietnamese shared O2b ADN with Korean and Japanese, which Han chinese don't has. This is evidence proof for that Vietnamese settled to Vietnam from North Asia in ancient time.

Do you even know what this chart means? It shows modern Y make-up, not prehistoric human migration. Even then, your O2b is like 3%, are you intellectually disabled?

 

[dichoi]

Do you even know what this chart means? It shows modern Y make-up, not prehistoric human migration. Even then, your O2b is like 3%, are you intellectually disabled?

It existed in Viets from over 2 thousands years.

 

[welcomeJason]

Since Shanghai was made up by different groups of people, so it depends the sample of the Shanghainese you picked.

Those 苏北裔上海人 are undoubtedly clustered with the northerners, while those 浙江裔上海人 have a lot of southern native DNA.

苏北裔上海人 are mostly O3, while 浙江裔上海人 carry a lot of O1 and O2, but also a considerable amount of O3 as well.

我的是o3. 可父系源头不是汉族，why？
浙江杭州附近的北方汉族应该比较多吧，至于南部西部山区应该和安徽南部江西福建很接近吧

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

我的是o3. 可父系源头不是汉族，why？
浙江杭州附近的北方汉族应该比较多吧，至于南部西部山区应该和安徽南部江西福建很接近吧

O3a3c is Huaxia, while O3a3b is Miao.

Only Hangzhou is very northern, while the rest of Zhejiang not so.

 

[Nice_guy]

I admit that some Vietnamese people originated from China and our culture are influenced under Chinese sphere. But, Vietnam are identical country at the moment, the people should go forward for a better life. That's it.