Vietnamese nationalist fabrications

[EastSea]

you don´t need to provoke him without reasons.

what is fake Han? what is true Han?

Han is not about bloodline, neither languages nor places, but rather a cultural umbrella. People of China living in the South, Central and North if they share a common cultures and custom, so they are Han as per definition.

when people don't shared sane bloodline and same language then they could be belong to or in different ethnic group. Cantonese pundi (dân bản địa) people don't shared bloodline and languages with han people in northern China, Cantonese pundi people and han Chinese belong to different ethic group, like Hans and Viets.

You would like to say about culture and customs. Viets, Korean, Japanese shared common culture and custom but we belong to 4 nation or 4 ethnic group even thought we are in Mongoloid race in Asia.

Its in Europa, German in Deutschland people (volk ) and English people in UK, they shared similar culture, or in same culture. In the linguistically in language " to have" and "to be", its corespondent to "haben" and "sein" in Deutsch. But they are in independent ethnic group and nation in Europa,

I could type English here because I have been to Deutschland a short time.

 

[Snomannen]

Let me give those stupid nationalist who repeat their nonsenses over and over again a hand:

I'm sure that those who enjoy making people laugh with their ignorance should know one or two things about Chinese history and they should know that the second dynasty of China is Shang, the main point is, the people of Shang Dynasty is considered as Dong Yi (東夷) in every Chinese historical record~

The third dynasty of China -Zhou, conquered Shang and became the new HuaXia (華夏). In fact, seldom do those stupid nationalist know that, Shang people shared very different culture with Zhou people (Since Zhou people were Beidi (北狄)) including their languages, traditional clothing and even hair style~ The officers of Zhou (the new leaders of the Middle Land) even worked very hard to remove the Shang culture from Shang people:

《史記》卷三十三：「魯公伯禽之初受封之魯(where Shang people were settled after the collapse of the Shang Dynasty)，三年而後報政周公。周公曰：『何遲也？』伯禽曰：『變其俗，革其禮，喪三年然後除之，故遲。』」

(Shang people)

(Shang's hair style)

Therefore, base on those uneducated nationalist logic, Han people is not even existed nowadays. Han people was already eliminated thousands year ago. You are welcome~

Oh and speaking of Cantonese and Mandarin:

保留較多古漢語用詞
粵語保留相當多的古詞古義，而且現代粵語仍然有較高使用單音詞的傾向。一些被粵語使用者視為通俗的字辭可在古籍中找到來源，而在官話中已經消失不再使用。

第一及第二人稱用「我」、「你」，與官話相同，但粵音「我」（ngo5）更保留了中古漢語唐音（*ngɑ̌ ）之疑母（ng-）。第三人稱不用「他」，而是繼承了東晉南朝的用法，跟吳語一樣使用「渠」，現代粵語寫作「佢」。複數人稱不用「們」，而是上溯至端係的 同源形式 [taʔ] 或 [ti]（現代粵語寫作「哋」，本字為「等」）。

粵語用「係」而不用「是」來代表正面答覆，「係」是明清小說中常用字，其粵音（hai）與日本人正面答覆時的單字發音（はい）基本相近。

在《詩經》、《尚書》等古經典作品中，不少用詞亦在現代粵語中慣常使用。例如，句未助詞「忌」（現代粵語寫為「嘅」字），在《詩經·國風·鄭風·大叔於 田》有「叔善射忌，又良禦忌」的表述； 陰騭（常被寫為陰質）語出《尚書》:「惟天陰騭下民」，指埋沒良心。在文言文和現代粵語中，「卒之、畀」都等同「終於、給予」的意義。古代常用的「文 錢」，粵語也保存了「文」的用法，但常被寫為「蚊」字。「尋日」（昨日）的「尋」可追溯至東晉陶淵明的《歸去來辭》「 尋程氏妹喪於武昌」中的「尋」，解作「不久前」。「幾時」（何時）、「幾多」（多少）可追溯至蘇軾的宋詞《水調歌頭》中的「明月幾時有？把酒問青天。」。 而在李煜的《虞美人》中有「問君能有幾多愁，恰似一江春水向東流。」。

粵語亦會借用古語作引伸，演化成新的意義。「牙煙」（正寫「崖廣」）原意為「懸崖邊的廣」（「廣」即是小屋，與簡化字無關)，後引伸為危險。

「走」字的本意為「奔跑」（兩腳交互向前迅速躍進），但在官話中已轉義為「步行」。粵語中，「行」就是步行，而「走」則保留了古漢語中「奔跑」的意思。又 如官話用「吃(喫)/喝」，粵語用更古老的「食/飲」（粵北也有用「喫」，或寫成「吔」），用法與《論語．學而》中「君子食無求飽」一致。動詞「來」，粵 語會用「蒞」（常寫作「嚟」），即「歡迎蒞臨」的「蒞臨」。

再如「打甂爐」（吃火鍋，常寫作「打邊爐」），「甂爐」為一種古炊具；日常炒菜用的半圓型炊器，古代稱為「釜」，粵語和客家話用「鑊」，官話用「鍋」，閩語用「鼎」。

粵語用「謦欬」代表聊天、閒談，是古漢語的用法，在《列子》《莊子》等古書都可找到例句。（「謦欬」因常被寫作「傾偈」，也有人認為是來自僧侶說教「講佛偈」。）

It's written in Chinese, but no matter. All you need to know is that: In Cantonese, "ngo5" (我/ I, me) is even closer than ancient Chinese language "ngɑ̌"(我/ I, me) than Mandarin "Wǒ"(我/ I, me).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Under Vietnamese nationalism there is an attempt to wipe out all Chinese influence and history and instead fabrications are made.

Chinese nationalism isn't much different though they come in different flavors ie Han Chauvinism ie Qing would be viwed as a barbarian dynasty instead and Manchus would be the scapegoat for the Opium Wars.

Basically I define nationalism as an overzealous attempt to rewrite history in a fashion that suits their agenda,promoting their own ethnicity while bashing another one,trying to extend an ethnic identity as far back as they can,inability to accept sources that contradict their view,finding a historical "enemy" or struggle,view that their own ethnicity is superior etc.

Most these so-called "Chinese ultra-nationalists" are in fact KMT supporters.

These people first want to create tension between Hans and the ethnic minorities in China by attacking them.

But their ultimate goal is to demonize CPC, how CPC's idealogy is foreign and it is against the Chinese civilization. They also have agenda to deny the Yuan-Qing Dynasty, the goal of denying is to deny China's current territorial integrity.

When KMT sold off Outer Mongolia, they set to blame on CPC. They even blamed CPC for the loss of the Qing territory to the Russian Empire.

When it comes to the Western Civilization and the Christianity, these fake Chinese nationalists have shown their true color. According to them, the Chinese Civilization is now backward and outdated, and the only future for China is to accept the democracy and the Christianity.

BTW, thanks to CPC who has introduced the Marxism to reform the stagnated Chinese Civilization. Now the Chinese Civilization can be exploited to its maximum potential and it is set to outcompete the Western Civilization.

Introducing the Marxism is not the same as introducing the Western Democracy and the Christianity. The former one is to reform the Chinese Civilization, while the later one is to kill off the already stagnated Chinese Civilization and made the eternal slave to the West, it is like to break a camel's back with the last straw.

These KMT traitors/pro-democracy thugs keep talking how they "love" the Chinese Civilization, but fact their true agenda to make China to become a vessel state of the West. In order to achieve this objective, they have to destroy China's root first.

 

[Grand Historian]

I would like to say to you, if you don have your Jia fa (familiy tree) to stated that your ancestor came to from some where in north China. if You are Fujian people in origin, you are fake Han chinese.

I wonder about that, southern chinese claim that they are an Han Chinese from North China, but your bloodline and languages is different for each to other.

How can one be a fake Han Chinese,if they view themselves as Han and practice Han culture then they are Han.

You haven't even bothered to read my original post have you?

Southern Han Chinese are paternally descended from Northern Han,the Sinitic languages Southern Chinese speak are descended from he Central Plains.

What I find hilarious is that Vietnamese trolls can't even come up with a decent rebuttal instead they repeat debunked "facts".

Can you quote any Vietnamese scholars writing books fabricating or diffaming Chinese history?

Vietnam the Springhead of Eastern Cultural Civilization
Dai Viet su ky toan thu

Since I can't read Vietnamese I can't say much however judging my the number of nationalist blogs I can see it is a popular theory.

 

[bolo]

Another Chinese that is pissed off because the Viets refused to submit to China.

Because you're Vietnamese living in America.

 

[shuttler]

Another Chinese that is pissed off because the Viets refused to submit to China.

You dont even know what are lying and slander - dont expect you

The economic size of the vietcongs are about the same as our Henan Province now and a bit smaller than China's economy in 1990

But both our folks from Henan nor China as a whole in`1990 are this arrogant and so blatantly in denial of history

 

[sincity]

If you ask VietNam Chinese immigrated to US, not a single one of them will tell you they are Vietnamese. 3rd or 4th generation VietNam Chinese speak cantonese retain Chinese custom and culture will never accept being call VietNamese this enough to explain VietNam culture never was in their history had any influence in China. Vietnamese just blow out hot air other than fact.

 

[xunzi]

The Vietnamese who are sympathizer with Japanese war criminals is a disgrace to those sex slave victim. Justice will eventually show itself. We believe the day will come eventually. Those who deny crimes will face justice. Vietnam is part of this new gang. They must face justice.

 

[Rechoice]

the people of Shang Dynasty is considered as Dong Yi (東夷) in every Chinese historical record~

with Zhou people (Since Zhou people were Beidi (北狄))

OK, that mean Xia, Shang, Zhou were barbarian too, like Nanman.

 

[Grand Historian]

OK, that mean Xia, Shang, Zhou were barbarian too, like Nanman.

No its just means that the Shang and the Zhou saw each other as different people,though which is more Chinese is up to debate.

 

[Rechoice]

In Cantonese, "ngo5" (我/ I, me) is even closer than ancient Chinese language "ngɑ̌"(我/ I, me) than Mandarin "Wǒ"(我/ I, me).

both Mandarin and Cantonese shared same root from Sino-Tibetan language.

No its just means that the Shang and the Zhou saw each other as different people,though which is more Chinese is up to debate.

so would Han people in ethnicity belong to Shang or Zhou ? when Dong Yi (東夷) and Beidi (北狄) were looks down by Han historian.

 

[Grand Historian]

so would Han people in ethnicity belong to Shang or Zhou ? when Dong Yi (東夷) and Beidi (北狄) were looks down by Han historian.

There was no such thing as Han Chinese in the Shang and Zhou dynasty,both of them are considered to be the ancestors of Han though.

Anthropological studies show that the Han dynasty skeletons cluster with Zhou and Shang era skeletons.

 

[Rechoice]

How can one be a fake Han Chinese,if they view themselves as Han and practice Han culture then they are Han.

You haven't even bothered to read my original post have you?

Southern Han Chinese are paternally descended from Northern Han,the Sinitic languages Southern Chinese speak are descended from he Central Plains.

What I find hilarious is that Vietnamese trolls can't even come up with a decent rebuttal instead they repeat debunked "facts".


Vietnam the Springhead of Eastern Cultural Civilization
Dai Viet su ky toan thu

Since I can't read Vietnamese I can't say much however judging my the number of nationalist blogs I can see it is a popular theory.

I will use the concept "Sinized Yue" for the fake Han instead if it should be hurt you.

 

[Grand Historian]

I will use the concept "Sinized Yue" for the fake Han instead if it should be hurt you.

Ladies and Gentlemen this is exactly what I'm talking about,even in the face of overwhelming proof of Han migrations and the explanation that Han is a culture we still have trolls trying to say that Southern Han Chinese are fake Chinese.

 

[sincity]

Ladies and Gentlemen this is exactly what I'm talking about,even in the face of overwhelming proof of Han migrations and the explanation that Han is a culture we still have trolls trying to say that Southern Han Chinese are fake Chinese.

Just ignore him dude, he even said Cantonese and Mandarin share the common root in dialect with Tibetian.