Vietnamese communists call for end to communism

[Viet]

In any war, there are two equally important components:

- Political goals.
- Military objectives.

The political goals determine the military objectives, such as taking this hill, that city, and those ports. Without the hill, city, and ports, the politicians cannot negotiate. With the hill, city, and ports, I can present to the other side that they cannot win because my military is superior to theirs. The corollary is that if my military failed to acquire the hill, city, and ports, the other side will argue that since I failed, their military is superior to mine and perhaps I should surrender.

The point is that even if the military achieved crucial objectives, the politicians, driven by other forces, can still lose the war. Which is exactly what happened in the VN War. Militarily speaking, the NVA/VC forces never had the upper hand, no matter how many small victories they had. US airpower dominated the sky over the entire country. Please do not bring on US air losses as rebuttal. US airpower came and go at will over North Vietnamese airspace, losses or not. The SVN/US alliance stopped at the 17th parallel, not because they could not go further, but because they chose partition, like in Korea. If the SVN/US alliance had the same intent of unification like NVN had, the NVA would have been wiped off the Earth.

So here we have two different political goals. North Vietnam was seeking unification. South Vietnam was seeking partition. If political goals determined military objectives, and this is true throughout history, then eventually one side had to give up because there can be no compromises between the two sides. The US lost the will to fight via home public opinions, not because the US military was defeated on the battlefields like the communists would like to brainwash its citizenry to believe.

sorry bro, America lost the war, South VN lost the war. Everything else is just academic discussion.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

In any war, there are two equally important components:

- Political goals.
- Military objectives.

The political goals determine the military objectives, such as taking this hill, that city, and those ports. Without the hill, city, and ports, the politicians cannot negotiate. With the hill, city, and ports, I can present to the other side that they cannot win because my military is superior to theirs. The corollary is that if my military failed to acquire the hill, city, and ports, the other side will argue that since I failed, their military is superior to mine and perhaps I should surrender.

The point is that even if the military achieved crucial objectives, the politicians, driven by other forces, can still lose the war. Which is exactly what happened in the VN War. Militarily speaking, the NVA/VC forces never had the upper hand, no matter how many small victories they had. US airpower dominated the sky over the entire country. Please do not bring on US air losses as rebuttal. US airpower came and go at will over North Vietnamese airspace, losses or not. The SVN/US alliance stopped at the 17th parallel, not because they could not go further, but because they chose partition, like in Korea. If the SVN/US alliance had the same intent of unification like NVN had, the NVA would have been wiped off the Earth.

So here we have two different political goals. North Vietnam was seeking unification. South Vietnam was seeking partition. If political goals determined military objectives, and this is true throughout history, then eventually one side had to give up because there can be no compromises between the two sides. The US lost the will to fight via home public opinions, not because the US military was defeated on the battlefields like the communists would like to brainwash its citizenry to believe.

The person most brainwashed here is you. Anyone that disagrees with you is either brainwashed or lacks critical thinking in your opinion. How about doing some critical thinking of your own. The Americans in Vietnam and later in Afghanistan and Iraq have won the battles but ended up losing the wars. It has been 41 years since the pullout of the US troops out of Vietnam and 39 years since the fall of Saigon and you are still fighting the good fight on your keyboard. Its time to move on!

 

[gambit]

The person most brainwashed here is you. Anyone that disagrees with you is either brainwashed or lacks critical thinking in your opinion. How about doing some critical thinking of your own. The Americans in Vietnam and later in Afghanistan and Iraq have won the battles but ended up losing the wars. It has been 41 years since the pullout of the US troops out of Vietnam and 39 years since the fall of Saigon and you are still fighting the good fight on your keyboard. Its time to move on!

And I am in good company here -- WITH YOU.

Despite the fact that you know next to nothing about the war and the ideologies involved, Vietnamese communist keyboard warriors are busy fighting the good fight to rehabilitate the image of the mess of a country that the communists made in VN.

sorry bro, America lost the war, South VN lost the war. Everything else is just academic discussion.

How academic is the pathetic state of VN ? Ooopsss...Sorry...You are in prosperous Germany...

 

[Carlosa]

And I am in good company here -- WITH YOU.

Despite the fact that you know next to nothing about the war and the ideologies involved, Vietnamese communist keyboard warriors are busy fighting the good fight to rehabilitate the image of the mess of a country that the communists made in VN.


How academic is the pathetic state of VN ? Ooopsss...Sorry...You are in prosperous Germany...

Relax you guys, the war has been over for a very long time now, time to join forces and fight the chinese for a change.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

And I am in good company here -- WITH YOU.

Despite the fact that you know next to nothing about the war and the ideologies involved, Vietnamese communist keyboard warriors are busy fighting the good fight to rehabilitate the image of the mess of a country that the communists made in VN.

How can i or anyone else doubt that you are the only one who knows the truth.

 

[xesy]

@gambit Again a long post. Let's not waste our Pakistan friends resource ok. I answered you most of your points in the previous post so I don't think I evaded you or something.

You are fighting for a lost cause. Even if one day Communism VN falls, and a new govt rises, I am sure that they will never use the name Republic of Vietnam, or use the yellow red-strips flag. It's easy to understand for people to avoid using things of the dead, in this case a dead govt.

The contanst stream of refugee to SV were mostly landlords or French-supported VNese fearing of being punished or people with properties fearing communists would take all from them. They were, like you, afraid of communists enough to fled their hometowns, their lands to "tha hương cầu thực", seeking refugee in the unfamiliar lands. Tell me, did they find better life in SV?

Oh paper number paper number, tell me how many US advisors in the SV army actually held rifles and fought battles, even before the US officially joined VN war? I believe the number was close to your 60,000. And support troops like atillery, helicopter pilots could not cause some serious casualities in the war? Give me a break.

A corrupted democracy is no better than a corrupted communism govt. A good dictatorship can be as good as a democratic govt. Different systems, all run by human. Why can't you see the corruption of SV govt yet you are picky about communism NV? At least NV didn't pour poison above the forest and the field, forbiding farmers to work.

Now your last sentence is disturbing. While many of NV soldiers fought solely for the unification of VN, and died for it, you'd rather leave half of your brethens to wither and rot in poverty, while enjoying the fake luxury life of yours? Unlike Korea which both North and South were evenly developed by the Japanese, VN 3 parts were developed differently by the French. You at least know that much right. 3 parts, NVN followed the landlord system, SVN followed capitalist system while Hue-Da Nang area kept the old imperial system. That created difference and seperation between VNese, and we couldn't effectively unify and fight the French. That also created people like you, who only selfishly cared for yourself while your compatriots suffered. That's you, @gambit.

 

[yue10]

Sorry kid, I'm here to stay whether you like it or not.

how much for you to leave? srsly i will pay you to go back your home, did you know most vietnam people are just polite to you on the outside because foreigner is not good people

@yue10 please maintain the decorum and use clean language.

ok ok sorry

@gambit Again a long post. Let's not waste our Pakistan friends resource ok. I answered you most of your points in the previous post so I don't think I evaded you or something.

You are fighting for a lost cause. Even if one day Communism VN falls, and a new govt rises, I am sure that they will never use the name Republic of Vietnam, or use the yellow red-strips flag. It's easy to understand for people to avoid using things of the dead, in this case a dead govt.

The contanst stream of refugee to SV were mostly landlords or French-supported VNese fearing of being punished or people with properties fearing communists would take all from them. They were, like you, afraid of communists enough to fled their hometowns, their lands to "tha hương cầu thực", seeking refugee in the unfamiliar lands. Tell me, did they find better life in SV?

Oh paper number paper number, tell me how many US advisors in the SV army actually held rifles and fought battles, even before the US officially joined VN war? I believe the number was close to your 60,000. And support troops like atillery, helicopter pilots could not cause some serious casualities in the war. Give me a break.

A corrupted democracy is no better than a corrupted communism govt. A good dictatorship can be as good as a democratic govt. Different systems, all run by human. Why can't you see the corruption of SV govt yet you are picky about communism NV? At least NV didn't poor poison above the forest and the field, forbiding farmers to work.

Now your last sentence is disturbing. While many of NV soldiers fought solely for the unification of VN, and died for it, you'd rather leave half of your brethens to wither and rot in poverty, while enjoying the fake luxury life of yours? Unlike Korea which both North and South were evenly developed by the Japanese, VN 3 parts were developed differently by the French. You at least know that much right. 3 parts, NVN followed the landlord system, SVN followed capitalist system while Hue-Da Nang area kept the old imperial system. That created difference and seperation between VNese, and we couldn't effectively unify and fight the French. That also created people like you, who only selfishly cared for yourself while your compatriots suffered. That's you, @gambit.

lol this is so true, i read there was 65% desertion rate and these arvn was considered totally hopeless by their us master, what a joke is annam people

 

[xesy]

lol this is so true, i read there was 65% desertion rate and these arvn was considered totally hopeless by their us master, what a joke is annam people

? Did I or @gambit mention the desertion rate in VN war? There were cowards, deserters and traitors on both sides, as in any wars ever happened or any wars that will happen. The longer the war drags on, the more complex it becomes.

Oh and stop your racist comment. Even I respected those SV soldiers. They fought for their ideology, and they lost. That's all to it. Winners or losers, they were all VNeses, well, except those who happily threw away their VN passports and got an American one instead. They are American now.

 

[Rechoice]

lol this is so true, i read there was 65% desertion rate and these arvn was considered totally hopeless by their us master, what a joke is annam people

,What is wrong with you Khmer Rouge bro. US went home, it is enough.

 

[Carlosa]

how much for you to leave? srsly i will pay you to go back your home, did you know most vietnam people are just polite to you on the outside because foreigner is not good people

What is your problem with foreigners man? I'm not sure if you are joking or if you are serious. If you are serious, why don't you start by telling me what it is that makes foreigners be bad in your eyes? As far as I'm concerned, there are both, good and bad foreigners. Are you khmer?

And by the way, I have good friends in Vietnam and is not just because they are polite. i also have a good Vietnamese family.

 

[BuddhaPalm]

As Vietnam collapses into civil war, the price of a Vietnamese bride will sink to rock bottom. A poor Chinese peasant can buy 10 brides.

 

[ComradeNam]

Are Chinese that desperate wanting brides from a country that you deem barbarian? Alot of time you desperate Chinese kidnapped ethnic minority females to sell in China. Desperate, pathetic. Inferior complex.

 

[Carlosa]

As Vietnam collapses into civil war, the bride of a Vietnamese bride will sink to rock bottom. A poor Chinese peasant can buy 10 brides.

In your perverted dreams kid.

Are Chinese that desperate wanting brides from a country that you deem barbarian? Alot of time you desperate Chinese kidnapped ethnic minority females to sell in China. Desperate, pathetic. Inferior complex.

I'd like to ask you if you don't mind, are you an active member of the Vietnamese military?

 

[vtnsx]

@gambit Again a long post. Let's not waste our Pakistan friends resource ok. I answered you most of your points in the previous post so I don't think I evaded you or something.

You are fighting for a lost cause. Even if one day Communism VN falls, and a new govt rises, I am sure that they will never use the name Republic of Vietnam, or use the yellow red-strips flag. It's easy to understand for people to avoid using things of the dead, in this case a dead govt.

The contanst stream of refugee to SV were mostly landlords or French-supported VNese fearing of being punished or people with properties fearing communists would take all from them. They were, like you, afraid of communists enough to fled their hometowns, their lands to "tha hương cầu thực", seeking refugee in the unfamiliar lands. Tell me, did they find better life in SV?

Oh paper number paper number, tell me how many US advisors in the SV army actually held rifles and fought battles, even before the US officially joined VN war? I believe the number was close to your 60,000. And support troops like atillery, helicopter pilots could not cause some serious casualities in the war? Give me a break.

A corrupted democracy is no better than a corrupted communism govt. A good dictatorship can be as good as a democratic govt. Different systems, all run by human. Why can't you see the corruption of SV govt yet you are picky about communism NV? At least NV didn't pour poison above the forest and the field, forbiding farmers to work.

Now your last sentence is disturbing. While many of NV soldiers fought solely for the unification of VN, and died for it, you'd rather leave half of your brethens to wither and rot in poverty, while enjoying the fake luxury life of yours? Unlike Korea which both North and South were evenly developed by the Japanese, VN 3 parts were developed differently by the French. You at least know that much right. 3 parts, NVN followed the landlord system, SVN followed capitalist system while Hue-Da Nang area kept the old imperial system. That created difference and seperation between VNese, and we couldn't effectively unify and fight the French. That also created people like you, who only selfishly cared for yourself while your compatriots suffered. That's you, @gambit.

I agreed with you. The worst thing about a country is a divided country. American does this to everyone for their own benefit. But most of us are too naive and bought into their bs.

 

[vtnsx]

In any war, there are two equally important components:

- Political goals.
- Military objectives.

The political goals determine the military objectives, such as taking this hill, that city, and those ports. Without the hill, city, and ports, the politicians cannot negotiate. With the hill, city, and ports, I can present to the other side that they cannot win because my military is superior to theirs. The corollary is that if my military failed to acquire the hill, city, and ports, the other side will argue that since I failed, their military is superior to mine and perhaps I should surrender.

The point is that even if the military achieved crucial objectives, the politicians, driven by other forces, can still lose the war. Which is exactly what happened in the VN War. Militarily speaking, the NVA/VC forces never had the upper hand, no matter how many small victories they had. US airpower dominated the sky over the entire country. Please do not bring on US air losses as rebuttal. US airpower came and go at will over North Vietnamese airspace, losses or not. The SVN/US alliance stopped at the 17th parallel, not because they could not go further, but because they chose partition, like in Korea. If the SVN/US alliance had the same intent of unification like NVN had, the NVA would have been wiped off the Earth.

So here we have two different political goals. North Vietnam was seeking unification. South Vietnam was seeking partition. If political goals determined military objectives, and this is true throughout history, then eventually one side had to give up because there can be no compromises between the two sides. The US lost the will to fight via home public opinions, not because the US military was defeated on the battlefields like the communists would like to brainwash its citizenry to believe.

I completely agreed with you, only in the American textbook. We are born the same way, but when our human instinct is at risk, and someone is more powerful than us are hurting our people, then you have to break the rules and do things that violate everything to get the job done. People make rules break their own rules. This was a war. American lost, South Vietnamese lost but the country is united and not divided. It will take time for the current Vietnamese Government to change. Unfortunately, not soon enough. Something will happen. The past is history, what now is now. We all know Democratic is better than communist any day.