Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[gambit]

Yes because massacring the population, dropping more bombs than World War 2, and releasing deadly toxins has done nothing to destroy Vietnam's economy.

You are a sick and delusional person. You would defend America even if they nuked Vietnam wouldn't you? Do you truly hate your own race that much?

There will be a special place in hell reserved for you.

Hell is already full FOR communists.

 

[gambit]

US and USSR were comparable.

That is a good joke...One that only a communist could believe.

China and India were comparable.

India is nothing like 'the West' as we know it.

North and South Korea were comparable, only in 1980's did they diverge.

That is an even funnier joke.

And well, South Vietnam doesn't exist, nothing to compare.

Sure we can. During the Vietnam War, South Viet Nam was more economically prosperous than North Viet Nam was.

But you want to compare modern Vietnam with Phillipines? Modern Vietnam has illegal workers in China but at least they don't have democratic pro USA Phillipines reputation of being cheap prostitutes and maids.

Sorry, pal. You failed spectacularly on all accounts.

 

[below_freezing]

I can't believe it, the amount of self racism and hatred is incredible. US Army Psychops must have conducted their first successful experiment on him. But one day the lies will crumble down, and you will be left with nothing, standing in the ashes of the worst terrorist regime in history, and think to yourself, how could I have believed the white man's lies?

 

[gambit]

he must have been brainwashed by gambit kind of traitors who praise their enemies for killing and raping their own mothers and sisters and have been taught to hate China who helped the Vietnamese in their struggle for existence.

This is the kind of cheap personal attacks that is so characteristic of the Chinese boys here. And I do encourage you boys to continue.

 

[gambit]

I can't believe it, the amount of self racism and hatred is incredible. US Army Psychops must have conducted their first successful experiment on him. But one day the lies will crumble down, and you will be left with nothing, standing in the ashes of the worst terrorist regime in history, and think to yourself, how could I have believed the white man's lies?

Only in your feeble mind that I have any kind of self hatred. You Chinese boys just simply cannot handle the fact that ONE Viet managed to debunked all your fantastic claims about the Chinese military and now this kind of cheap personal attacks is the only thing you can do to get even. But do keep it up.

 

[below_freezing]

I have made no claims regarding the Chinese military. I have sticked to my area of expertise, materials, and no further. Instead it is you that is displaying significant racism by refering to "You Chinese" as if we had identical thoughts.

 

[gambit]

I have made no claims regarding the Chinese military. I have sticked to my area of expertise, materials, and no further. Instead it is you that is displaying significant racism by refering to "You Chinese" as if we had identical thoughts.

Your area of 'expertise' is making up lies, statistics, and racist insults when I challenged all of you boys' claims and remained on technical ground. Now you self righteously call yourselves 'victims'?

 

[gambit]

and yes I would like to remind you of China's commitment to protect Vietnam even at its own cost.

“Best turn it into a bigger war…I’m afraid you really ought to send more troops to the South…Don’t be afraid of U.S. intervention, at most it’s no worse than having another Korean War. The Chinese army is prepared, and if America takes the risk of attacking North Vietnam, the Chinese army will march in at once. Our troops want a war now.”

-- Mao speaking to the North Vietnamese in 1964

Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, Mao: The Unknown Story, (New York, NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 2005), p. 482.

at least give some acknowledgment to the people who deserve it.

Might want to give this a read if you really believe China would have gotten into another fight with the US...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...e-indias-ins-vikramaditya-14.html#post1462700

 

[redfox]

The Vietnam War pitted America against communism and was a classic example of Cold War conflict. The western allies had been victorious in Berlin, but communism had taken root in China. Eastern Europe remained under Russian control and in Vietnam the American feared threat of the spread communism seemed to be real.

Before World War Two, Vietnam had been part of the French Empire. During the war, the country had been overrun by the Japanese. When the Japanese retreated, the people of Vietnam took the opportunity to establish their own government lead by Ho Chi Minh. However, after the end of the war, the Allies gave back south Vietnam to the French while the north was left in the hands of the non-communist Chinese. The Chinese treated the north Vietnamese very badly and support for Ho Chi Minh grew. He had been removed form power at the end of the war. The Chinese pulled out of north Vietnam in 1946 and the party of Ho Chi Minh took over - the Viet Minh.

In October 1946, the French announced their intention of reclaiming the north which meant that the Viet Minh would have to fight for it. The war started in November 1946, when the French bombarded the port of Haiphong and killed 6,000 people. The French tried to win over the people of the north by offering them 'independence'. However, the people would not be allowed to do anything without French permission ! A new leader of the country was appointed called Bao Dai. The Russians and Eastern Europe refused to recognise his rule. They claimed that Ho Chi Minh was the real ruler of Vietnam.

The French had got themselves into a difficult military position. Despite huge American help, the French could not cope with the Viet Minh's guerilla tactics. The Viet Minh were by now receiving help from Communist China - Mao Tse Tung had taken power of China in 1949. The fact that two sides had developed was classic Cold War history.

The country was meant to be ruled by Bao Dai who was supported by the west. Ho Chi Minh was supported by the Russians, Chinese and Eastern Europe - all communist.

In November 1953, the French sent their crack paratroop regiment to Vietnam. It was naturally assumed by the French that this unit would sort out the untrained Viet Minh guerillas. They were sent to Dien Bien Phu in the north. In May 1954, the regiment surrendered which came as a terrible blow to the French people. The French pulled out of Vietnam in the same month.

In April 1954, the world's powers had met at Geneva to discuss Vietnam. In July 1954, it was decided to divide the country in two at the 17th parallel. Bao Dai was to lead the south and Ho Chi Minh the north. The meeting also decided that in 1956, there would be an election in both the north and south to decide who would rule the whole country. The election would be supervised by neutral countries. This election did not take place and the split had become permanent by 1956.

North Vietnam had a population of 16 million. It was an agricultural nation. The Viet Minh trained guerillas to go to the south to spread the word of communism. Their weapons mostly came from communist China. To the surprise of the south Vietnamese, those Viet Minh who went to the south helped them on their farms and did not abuse them. They had become used to fearing soldiers. Instead, the Viet Minh were courteous and helpful.

South Vietnam also had a population of 16 million. Its first proper leader was Ngo Dinh Diem who was a fanatical catholic. As communism hated religion, Diem hated all that communism stood for. This is why he got America's support - he had a poor record on human rights but his rule was in the era of the "Domino Theory" and anybody who was anti-communist in the Far East was likely to receive American backing - regardless of their less than savoury background. Ngo ruled as a dictator along with his brother - Nhu. Their government was corrupt and brutal but it was also backed by America.

After the non-election of 1956, the Viet Minh became more active militarily. Their guerillas - now called the Viet Cong - attacked soft targets in the south. They used the Ho Chi Minh trail which was a 1000 mile trail along the border with Laos with heavy jungle coverage so that detection from the air was very difficult. The Viet Cong were trained by their commander Giap who learned from the tactics used by the Chinese communists in their fight against the Nationalist Chinese forces. He expected his troops to fight and to help those in the south. He introduced a "hearts and minds" policy long before the Americans got militarily involved in Vietnam.

During the 1950's, America had developed her Domino Theory. This was the creation of John Foster Dulles, America's Secretary of State. He believed that if one country was allowed to fall to communism, the country next to it would be the next to tumble just as when one domino falls the rest go with it if they are connected. In view of the fear in America of communism spreading throughout the world, the thought of Vietnam starting this process of turning to communism and then it spreading was unacceptable.

America had already sent "special advisors" to South Vietnam since 1955. By 1961, there were 1,500 special advisors in the country. These were men from America's Special Forces who were there to train the South Vietnamese Army in how to fight the Viet Cong. By 1963, there were 16,000 special advisors in South Vietnam.

Regardless of their presence and attempts by the west to demonise the Viet Cong, it is probable that by 1962, over 75% of all south Vietnamese peasants supported the Viet Cong as they were seen as liberators from the unacceptable government of Diem. To "save" the peasants from the Viet Cong, Diem organised a system whereby whole villages were moved into defended camps - known as fortified villages. This policy backfired as the peasants did not want to be removed from their land and as such the policy played into the hands of the Viet Cong who were promising the peasants more land once communism have taken root in the south.

Diem's unpopularity was so great that in November 1963, the South Vietnamese Army overthrew and killed him. The confusion at a political level in South Vietnam and the abuse of peasants rights within the agricultural community were two reasons for the spread of communism within the south. Such a development alarmed the American president, Lyndon Johnson, who had asked his military chiefs to formulate plans should a full-scale war break out. The one proviso the chiefs-of-staff had was that America had to be seen as the victim rather than the aggressor.

In August 1964, the Tongking Incident occurred when two American destroyers were attacked by North Vietnamese gunboats while they were in international waters. In response to this, the American Senate gave Johnson the power to give armed support to assist any country requesting help in defence of its freedom. In March 1965, the first American ground troops landed in South Vietnam and by December 1965, there were 150,000 stationed in the country. The bombing of North Vietnam had already started in February 1965.

The question still remain to be unanswered, were those US destroyers in international waters as claimed?

 

[anon45]

don't get delusional! millions and millions of Vietnamese have been affected genetically by US and they won't be cured. if you are a real Vietnamese then have some anger looking at the poor mothers who still give birth to deformed children. your own people, your own mothers and sisters. only monsters and cannibals can do such horrible things to any people.

YouTube - Agent Orange victims left uncompensated

YouTube - Agent of deformity

how can you expect better relationships with such monsters?

Can't undo whats been done, would you like us to use time machines?

There are charities for the victims (on both sides of the conflict) and the US has and does support efforts to remove Agent Orange from the environment.

You forget the war divided the American society as much as anything, which should really put to rest your claims of us being 'monsters'.

We are not doing nothing combatting agent orange, far from it.

Honestly it sounds like you simply want to stir up hate.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Hell is already full FOR communists.

There will always be a place for traitors. Its in the lowest tier of hell.

P.S its full of communists

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Your area of 'expertise' is making up lies, statistics, and racist insults when I challenged all of you boys' claims and remained on technical ground. Now you self righteously call yourselves 'victims'?

What statistics has he made up exactly. He actually has sources unlike you who constantly make BS statements with none.

 

[CardSharp]

 

[below_freezing]

Your area of 'expertise' is making up lies, statistics, and racist insults when I challenged all of you boys' claims and remained on technical ground. Now you self righteously call yourselves 'victims'?

In our discussion in radar absorbant materials, I believe we remained in a civilized, technical discussion. I have also never made up any statistics.

 

[gambit]

Dunno wherever you copied/pasted that from, it sounded like a bad high school report...

The Vietnam War pitted America against communism and was a classic example of Cold War conflict. The western allies had been victorious in Berlin, but communism had taken root in China. Eastern Europe remained under Russian control and in Vietnam the American feared threat of the spread communism seemed to be real.

No...At the end of WW II, China was hardly established as a communist country. Mao and Chiang were still contending forces with their respective sponsors, Russia and the US-led Allies, on what direction should China take.

Before World War Two, Vietnam had been part of the French Empire. During the war, the country had been overrun by the Japanese. When the Japanese retreated, the people of Vietnam took the opportunity to establish their own government lead by Ho Chi Minh. However, after the end of the war, the Allies gave back south Vietnam to the French while the north was left in the hands of the non-communist Chinese.

If this truly was a high school History report, I would give it an epic F. Obviously you did not read the argument I presented so I will spell it out for you...

Pentagon Papers, Gravel Edition, Summary and Chapter I

I saw Halifax last week and told him quite frankly that it was perfectly true that I had, for over a year, expressed the opinion that Indo-China should not go back to France but that it should be administered by an international trusteeship. France has had the country-thirty million inhabitants for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the beginning.

As a matter of interest, I am wholeheartedly supported in this view by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek and by Marshal Stalin. I see no reason to play in with the British Foreign Office in this matter. The only reason they seem to oppose it is that they fear the effect it would have on their own possessions and those of the Dutch. They have never liked the idea of trusteeship because it is, in some instances, aimed at future independence. This is true in the case of Indo-China.

Each case must, of course, stand on its own feet, but the case of IndoChina is perfectly clear. France has milked it for one hundred years. The people of Indo-China are entitled to something better than that.

Even before the end of WW II, the US already had plans for Indochina -- independence. Of course, war time necessities pushed this plan into the background. Though Roosevelt died, the US under Truman had no reasons to deviate from that plan. The US never had any colonial interests on mainland China the way the Europeans did. That was why Roosevelt commented about the French and British attitudes regarding Indochina under UN trusteeship towards independence.

The true reason why France managed to re-entered Indochina...

Ho

The Ho–Sainteny agreement was an agreement made March 6, 1946 between Ho Chi Minh, President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and Jean Sainteny, Special Envoy of France. It recognized Vietnam as a "Free State" within the French Union, and permitted France to continue stationing troops in North Vietnam until 1951.

Look closely at the date and see for yourself. France was anxious to reclaim Indochina the way any colonial power would. China was already in the beginning of an internal power struggle between Mao and Chiang. Non-communist nationalists were voicing their opposition to Ho in northern Viet Nam. They had to go. France endowed Ho with some measure of authority backed up by military force. The result was the slaughter of non-communist nationalists under the hands of the Viet Minh and France. No one in the Allies camp 'gave' Viet Nam, north or south, to anyone. Once France was back into Indochina at the invitation of the Viet Minh, what else could anyone do?

The Chinese treated the north Vietnamese very badly and support for Ho Chi Minh grew. He had been removed form power at the end of the war. The Chinese pulled out of north Vietnam in 1946 and the party of Ho Chi Minh took over - the Viet Minh.

Of course the Chinese mistreated the Viet. They viewed themselves as 'Sons of Heaven', as recalled by this man...

Amazon.com: Following Ho Chi Minh: The Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel (9780824822330): Bui Tin: Books

Chinese 'advisors' did more than just 'advised' the Viet Minh. They falsely accused loyal Viet Minh members, high and low, abused the Viet peasantry in crimes that involved even rapes and murders and Ho was too cowardly to stand up for his people. By this time, the conflict against France was underway. So it is not true that Ho was removed from power. He never was in power. He got into power via an agreement with France that in principle gave France all the justification they need to reclaim a colony.

So here are the true instigators of the Vietnam War, in order:

- Ho Chi Minh
- France
- China

I see no reason to continue. You failed.