Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

[Aepsilons]

No, they just hope to weaken us, so that we cant unify Sub-Mekong region, and they also can eran more benefit from our corrupted Govt. Even great country like Soviet or even China-US also cant turn VN into debt slaves.

Will you shut up about this 'sub Mekong unifcation' drivel? Its not going to happen, not now, not ever.

 

[NiceGuy]

With all these projects, gawdamnnn, i must admit, Vietnam will have one of the best infrastructures in ASEAN by 2020-2025.

Vietnamese people and Japanese benefit. As you already know, we're expecting to stay in Vietnam long, long, long term.

While we're going to be in Vietnam, we might as well take advantage of world-class infrastructure.

VN have a very special location, from Lach Huyen port in Hai Phong city where u built that bridge, JP can export its products that made in VN to China very fast. Friendly countries like France -German or even US wanna invest more in VN, but they require a better transparency when our Govt. dont wanna improve it. Thats why they chose JP as a biggest partner.

Of course VNese will get benefit from good infrastructures funded by ODA , but unlike JPese who always wanna have have US's present in Asia to protect u guys, we VNese wanna live on our own feet. Current weak and corrupted Govt. will make VN depend more on US's help to contain China.

 

[NiceGuy]

Will you shut up about this 'sub Mekong unifcation' drivel? Its not going to happen, not now, not ever.

It would happen if US-JP didnt shake hand wt China in 1979 to stop VN's expansion to Thailand. Even Thai members here also admit that US belived VN would take control of Thai soon, so US refused aid to Thai in 1979.

 

[Aepsilons]

It would happen if US-JP didnt shake hand wt China in 1979 to stop VN's expansion to Thailand. Even Thai members here also admit that US belived that VN would take control of Thai soon, so US refuse aid to Thai in 1979.

Nice-sama,

One can dwell on historical ambitions, or one can live in the reality that is now. Vietnam has opportunity before her now, its best to exert energy on the things that can be worked on.

I will not entertain any more discussion with you about this 'sub mekong' dream of yours.

I will end this with popular saying in Japan, and I want you to take it to heart: Deru kui wa utareru

Meaning: Better to use your energy for constructive purposes !



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Kyle Sun]

Yeah, u Chinese have the right to select job, then why many of u still take a dirty job that will waste lots of Tax like 50cent warriors ??

Thats just same reason for Vn workers who work for low quality ODA projects.

I want to be 50cent warriors , and I am very glad if somebody or org will pay me for this so called job.
We are not you, beg for a job in front of your Boss and curse him behind him.

 

[NiceGuy]

Nice-sama,

One can dwell on historical ambitions, or one can live in the reality that is now. Vietnam has opportunity before her now, its best to exert energy on the things that can be worked on.

I will not entertain any more discussion with you about this 'sub mekong' dream of yours.

I will end this with popular saying in Japan, and I want you to take it to heart: Deru kui wa utareru

Meaning: Better to use your energy for constructive purposes !



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

Deru kui wa utareru why translating into VN means: when u r so good, many people will jealous wt u and try to take u down ??

5. Deru kui wa utareru.

Nghĩa đen: Cái cọc nào lòi sẽ bị đập.
Nghĩa bóng: Ưu tú quá sẽ bị để ý, ghen tị, nhiều kẻ thù.

Btw: unifying Sub-Mekong is not a dream but a must for VN and other sub-Mekong nations if we want to be strong enough to counter all threat. We've expanded our country to become bigger and stronger to survive since 15 century, people who live quite safely in a country that have a sea to protect them like JP of course dont understand how hard to live when having China as a next-door neighbour.

 

[NiceGuy]

I want to be 50cent warriors , and I am very glad if somebody or org will pay me for this so called job.
We are not you, beg for a job in front of your Boss and curse him behind him.

So u feel happy when robbing Tax from your poor Chinese kids who have to give their Tax for u when they still have to live in trash bin in winter ??

 

[Aepsilons]

Deru kui wa utareru why translating into VN means: when u r so good, many people will jealous wt u and try to take u down ??

Precisely. It is written as:

出る杭は打たれる

Literal translation is: The stake that will stick out shall be hammered down.

The Meaning of this spiritual proverb is to apply the best into your work, this excellence will breed envy , but do not mind the envy of others, continue on what you must do. It goes back to the Japanese Confucian concept of maintaining one's positive Ki -- 気.

 

[Aepsilons]

Btw: unifying Sub-Mekong is not a dream but a must for VN and other sub-Mekong nations if we want to be strong enough to counter all threat. We've expanded our country to become bigger and stronger to survive since 15 century, people who live quite safely in a country that have a sea to protect them like JP of course dont understand how hard to live when having China as a next-door neighbour.

Japan has contiguous maritime boundaries with Great Neighbors such as the Russian Federation, and the People's Republic of China, South Korea and North Korea. Yet there has been no war or conflict with our neighbours in 70 years. How do we do this? Simple. Maintain a pragmatic foreign policy. War is never necessary and differences can be meted out through diplomacy.

Japan had a very nasty history with China, given we fought a long war with them for over 14 years, it was a brutal war on both sides. Yet despite this, both China and Japan are able to divorce historical differences , and in the spirit of mutual development and growth of East Asia, Japan and China have put differences aside. We've never had any major conflicts since then.

Vietnam can learn from our strategies. Your fatalistic zero-sum mentality is not productive and is too narrow minded , it prevents you from adopting a pragmatic approach with neighbors. You write about China's abuses, advances. You complain about China's imperialist ambitions, that's fine and all and i am sympathetic to this. But at the same time, when you impose your will on others and excuse conquering other independent nations (Laos, Cambodia, Thailand) to create a 'Submekong Empire' is quite hypocritical of you. You are being something that you opposed and claimed true about others.

Open your mind, friend.

 

[NiceGuy]

Precisely. It is written as:

出る杭は打たれる

Literal translation is: The stake that will stick out shall be hammered down.

The Meaning of this spiritual proverb is to apply the best into your work, this excellence will breed envy , but do not mind the envy of others, continue on what you must do. It goes back to the Japanese Confucian concept of maintaining one's positive Ki -- 気.

Of course I will continue to do what is good for VN and u will continue to do what is good for JP (if u r true JPese), I just hope u guys JPese can understand what some of VNese think abt ur ODA, and from that, u guys can have a better decision if u guys wanna make friend wt VN.

Bcz of our special location that we must fought hard to take back from US, we can have many friendly countries who wanna make a huge investment to VN. Its ur loss if JP dont help VN to become stronger. Once day, when the policy in VN change, when we can improve our transparency, we may say bye bye to u guys and welcome France-German or even US to invest in VN if JP dont stop ODA to our corrupted Govt.

 

[William Hung]

LOL this debate is still going on??

I'm not an economist, but I think there are many things that Japan can do if it wants to assist or "aid" VN.

For example, Japan can perhaps remove certain tariffs or increases the ITQR of certain commodities or industry that is really weak in VN. This can stimulate that industry in VN, which will then helps VN to see any issues it has and rectify it, etc.

The local Japanese industry might hurt a little bit, but hey, you want to assist and "aid" a poor country right?

I'm not an economic major so I don't know much about trade. But much of my readings on the Anti-Aid literature has given other ideas about "aid" that helps other poor countries yet still don't contribute to the corruption culture. The priority should be in trade, not nice buildings or roads.

 

[NiceGuy]

Japan has contiguous maritime boundaries with Great Neighbors such as the Russian Federation, and the People's Republic of China, South Korea and North Korea. Yet there has been no war or conflict with our neighbours in 70 years. How do we do this? Simple. Maintain a pragmatic foreign policy. War is never necessary and differences can be meted out through diplomacy.

Japan had a very nasty history with China, given we fought a long war with them for over 14 years, it was a brutal war on both sides. Yet despite this, both China and Japan are able to divorce historical differences , and in the spirit of mutual development and growth of East Asia, Japan and China have put differences aside. We've never had any major conflicts since then.

Vietnam can learn from our strategies. Your fatalistic zero-sum mentality is not productive and is too narrow minded , it prevents you from adopting a pragmatic approach with neighbors. You write about China's abuses, advances. You complain about China's imperialist ambitions, that's fine and all and i am sympathetic to this. But at the same time, when you impose your will on others and excuse conquering other independent nations (Laos, Cambodia, Thailand) to create a 'Submekong Empire' is quite hypocritical of you. You are being something that you opposed and claimed true about others.

Open your mind, friend.

Russia can stay strong coz they have oil to sell, they wont be your trouble when their oil reserve is over and I dont think they wanna conquer JP like China wanna conquer the whole sub-Mekong region .

If we dont unify sub-Mekong region, then China will. Chairman Mao spoke out quite clearly to VN that they wanna send their people to the whole sub-Mekong region (pls read - Behind the bamboo curtain). AT least Laotian and some Cambodian r happy wt VN's rules, one of Thai general also support VN against China. At least some of people understand that solidarity sub-Mekong region will benefit for sub-Mekong people.

 

[Aepsilons]

Of course I will continue to do what is good for VN and u will continue to do what is good for JP (if u r true JPese), I just hope u guys JPese can understand what some of VNese think abt ur ODA, and from that, u guys can have a better decision if u guys wanna make friend wt VN.

Bcz of our special location that we must fought hard to take back from US, we can have many friendly countries who wanna make a huge investment to VN. Its ur loss if JP dont help VN to become stronger, once day, when the policy in VN change, we can improve our transparency, we may say bye bye to u guys and welcome France-German or even US to invest in VN if JP dont stop ODA to our corrupted Govt.

Vietnam is the master of her own destiny. Not Japan, France, Germany, United States, China, Russia, India et al. Remember that. Vietnam's Government has the capability to deny any foreign assistance program either it is from the East, the Mideast or the West. Japan's presence into Vietnam was catalyzed by Vietnam's own invitation since the 1980s.

Regarding the inconsistencies with ODA projects, I do not doubt that there are instances. And given the breadth of Japan's involvement in Vietnam's development, instance of corruption would leave a considerable footprint. In my original analysis of the situation, I had placed blame on the Vietnamese Government and officials, and this was not right since it was made known to me that some Japanese officials were complacent. If corruption is present in Vietnam, then the blame for Japanese officials in abetting this behavior is warranted.

The 2008-2009 Memorandum between both Japan and Vietnam to reduce instances of corruption is good because for one it acknowledges that corruption was present, its risk jeopardizes the entire ODA apparatus , most importantly, it affects Japanese image in Vietnam. Tho it is late, the policies and procedures are there now, processes that will address instance of corruption and swift amelioration of said threat. This ensures that future cooperative agreements with Vietnam and Japan in regards to projects will be transparent as possible.

This thread and the interaction with a host of members provided me a greater understanding of the entire situation. I appreciate your input and others regarding the subject matter. (Just not when you talk about hypothetical scenarios such as unifying a submekong region).


Sincerely and Respectfully Yours,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Kyle Sun]

So u feel happy when robbing Tax from your poor Chinese kids who have to give their Tax for u when they still have to live in trash bin in winter ??

We never rob tax from poor chinese kids .
Our personal imcome tax exemption is 3500+4 funds.
no way to rob tax from a kid.

 

[henry he]

Then, pls use ur money wt poor Chinese kids, some of them were frozen and starved to death in trash bin in last winter.

don't you know it is US dollars? it can't be used in domestic. actually, i just don't believe there are people starve in china now, it is so easy to make money, there are lots of job. even beggar won't starve.