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Vietnam then, Afghanistan now: Tense Kabul evacuation rekindles memories of another US retreat

Britain asks: Is America back or has it turned its back?
August 17, 20211:38 AM CST

  • Britain fears al Qaeda will regain Afghan haven
  • U.S. withdrawal was a mistake, Britain says
  • British soldiers question: Was it worth it?
  • West has been humiliated, British diplomats say
LONDON, Aug 16 (Reuters) - The humiliation of the lightning Taliban takeover in Afghanistan after a 20-year war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives has raised a question for the United States' staunchest European ally: Is America really back as President Joe Biden promised?

British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace cast the 2020 Doha withdrawal accord struck by U.S. President Donald Trump's administration as a "rotten deal". Wallace said Biden's decision to leave Afghanistan was a mistake that had enabled the Taliban to re-emerge in power.

Such questioning and such emotion - Wallace was on the brink of tears in one interview - is rare for Washington's closest European ally, which has stood by the United States in almost every major conflict since World War Two apart from Vietnam.

After the tumult of Trump's presidency, Biden has repeatedly promised that "America is back". Some British diplomats are questioning not only that assessment but also the implications for long-term national security.

"Is America back or has it turned its back?" one British official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It looks very much as if the Americans have gone home in a rather Trumpian manner - rushed, chaotic and humiliating."

Western security sources fear al Qaeda, whose founder Osama bin Laden was harboured by the Taliban before 9/11, could regain a foothold in Afghanistan within months. Such a scenario, they say, would threaten both the United Kingdom and the wider West.

British diplomats compared the scale of the West's humiliation to the 1975 fall of Saigon that ended the Vietnam War, or to the 1956 Suez Crisis, a strategic blunder which confirmed the loss of Britain's imperial power.

Photographs of a helicopter evacuating diplomats from the U.S. embassy in Kabul were compared to those from 1975 showing a helicopter plucking diplomats from the roof of the U.S. embassy in Saigon.

BETRAYAL?

Biden has repeatedly argued that a continued U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would not have significantly changed the situation unless the Afghan military could hold its own country.

But British diplomats said the Afghan debacle will undermine the West's standing in the world, rallyjihadists everywhere and strengthen the arguments of Russia and China that the United States and its allies lack both mettle and staying power.

"We must be clear about this: this is a humiliating moment for the West," said Mark Sedwill, who was Britain's most senior civil servant and national security adviser under former Prime Minister Theresa May.

Some British veterans questioned their own sacrifice. Some spoke of a feeling of betrayal. Some said their fallen comrades had died in vain.

"Was it worth it, probably not. Did I lose my legs for nothing, looks like it. Did my mates die in vain. Yep," said Jack Cummings, a former British soldier who lost both legs on Aug. 14, 2010 while searching for improvised explosive devices (IED) in Afghanistan.

"Many emotions going through my head - anger, betrayal sadness to name a few," said Cummings.


Britain was one of a handful of nations prepared to do some of the toughest fighting alongside U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, for example in the southern province of Helmand, considered to be the country's most dangerous.

Britain has lost 457 armed forces personnel in Afghanistan, or 13 percent of the international military coalition's 3,500 fatalities since 2001.

Brown University's Cost of War Project estimates 241,000 people have died as a direct result of the war. Brown estimates the Afghan war has cost the United States $2.26 trillion.

SAIGON OR SUEZ?

British diplomats cast both the Doha agreement of February 2020, struck during Trump's presidency, and Biden's April announcement of a withdrawal as capitulations which destroyed morale in Afghanistan.

Trump said his withdrawal plan had been ruined by Biden.

"The Taliban no longer has fear or respect for America, or America’s power," he said in a statement.

The British empire suffered humiliation in Afghanistan during the 1839-1842 Anglo-Afghan war, but after the Sept. 11 al Qaeda attacks, then-Prime Minister Tony Blair joined U.S. President George W. Bush in invading Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban.

Fast forward 20 years: the Taliban are back in power.

"The fall of Kabul is the biggest foreign policy disaster since Suez," said Tom Tugendhat, chairman of the British parliament's foreign affairs committee.

"It revealed the nature of U.S. power and our inability to hold a separate line," said Tugendhat, who served as a British soldier in both Iraq and Afghanistan. "As Kabul shows, we need our allies to stand with us."
 
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This could become an iconic pic depicting American occupation of Afghanistan. Just like this one in Vietnam.

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‘This is a shame on all of us’: British MPs debate the fall of Kabul
Wed 18 Aug 2021 16.51 BST

Theresa May, former Tory prime minister
“Was our intelligence really so poor, was our understanding of the Afghan government so weak, our knowledge of the position on the ground so inadequate? Or did we just feel we had to follow the US and hope that on a wing and a prayer it would be all right on the night?

I am afraid that this has been a major setback for British foreign policy. We boast about global Britain, but where is global Britain on the streets of Kabul? A successful foreign policy strategy will be judged by our deeds, not by our words.”
Keir Starmer, Labour leader
“The British government were wrong and complacent, the prime minister was wrong and complacent and, when he was not rewriting history, the prime minister was displaying the same appalling judgment and complacency last week.”

Nusrat Ghani, Tory MP
“This has been catastrophic, cack-handed, cruel and humiliating. It is a watershed in the failure of the west … I need to understand how our intelligence has failed, how the imagination of those providing the intelligence has failed, and if we’re relying on this intelligence going forward, how can we be sure that they know to do the right thing?”

Caroline Lucas, Green party MP
“We have to do whatever we can now to honour our promise to the people of Afghanistan. And that starts with fixing our failed refugee and asylum seeker system. For all the hand-wringing of government ministers in the past few days the reality is that their actions over the past few months have left thousands of ordinary Afghans in terrible danger.”

Iain Duncan Smith, former Tory leader
“The chaotic, ghastly departure, the way that people were falling off aircraft in their determination to get away, and the helicopters shipping people out, say terrible things about the values that we hold and those we wish to protect. This is a shame on all of us, not just America, but also the whole of Nato and here for us in this house.”
 
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For Some Vietnam Vets, Images From The Afghanistan Withdrawal Look Disturbingly Familiar
American Homefront Project | By Carson Frame
Published August 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM EDT

Some Vietnam veterans say the Afghanistan withdrawal has triggered symptoms of post-traumatic stress, while others are voicing frustration and powerlessness.

For Russ Clark, a former Marine infantry officer who fought in Vietnam in 1969 and 1970, the events in Afghanistan feel strikingly familiar. He remembers watching the news of the fall of Saigon.

“It's almost identical to the scenes that I saw in 1975, evacuating from the rooftop of our embassy in Saigon," Clark said. "It triggers a lot of those memories.”

The emotions are much the same, too, with a heavy dose of grief and confusion over what it all meant.

“The feeling is one of pain, futility, a sense of powerlessness — even embarrassment and deflation. All of those are part of what I'm dealing with right now,” he said.

Echoes of Vietnam aren’t just affecting Clark. Steve Schwab, CEO of the Elizabeth Dole Foundation, calls this an “acute crisis” for veterans of that era, many of whom were already facing service-related injuries.

“Before this withdrawal, we saw rising suicide rates among Vietnam veterans, because they're at that age, and they're suffering from those conditions. They're experiencing loneliness and disconnectedness at levels that are obscene. And then you layer this on top of that and it amounts to a crisis,” Schwab said.

Schwab said he’s hearing from veterans who are consumed with television news and social media, which is a huge trigger for their PTSD, anxiety, and depression. He said many Vietnam veterans are dealing with an extra layer of stress, given the similarities between Afghanistan and the war they fought.

“Frankly, many of them predicted and warned that this might happen again,” he said. “Sure enough, they're seeing that play out. For many of them, their worst fears have come true.”

It could, however, be an opportunity to work through past trauma, according to Cohen Veterans Network president and CEO Dr. Anthony Hassan.

“This may be another reminder to them of all that they've stuffed down and hidden away,” he said. “So this could be that time where those moments, emotions, feelings and regrets are reactivated….But hopefully this is a time for them to get the help that they need as well.”

In recent days, the Dole Foundation, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Military Health System, and many other veteran-serving organizations have sent out email blasts offering support and mental health resources to veterans and their families. Advocates are urging veterans to disconnect from the news and connect with other people.
 
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In the beginning of 50s, with Japan defeat and KMT retreat to Taiwan island.

Western media boasting about the capability of Daehanminguk (SK Army) under instructors & american equipment as the Best & Strongest Army in the Far east.

But everyone know, NK almost completely destroy SK army with only a few months.

Same like today, how their media are boasting about Taiwan (ROC) forces fend off Chinese Forces or how small Japan take over Gigantic Modern China 😂


mmmm, KMT, SK Army, SV Army, Afghanistan National Amry.... It seems US Army has some major issues with their "military training". Whoever they trained ended up routing.
 
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mmmm, KMT, SK Army, SV Army, Afghanistan National Amry.... It seems US Army has some major issues with their "military training". Whoever they trained ended up routing.

There are some success also, for example Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Saudi Arabia.

For South Korea, President Rhee despite his corruption initiated a land reform, effectively cut the communist off the recruits. The North Korea regime is also too lousy while the South despite being lousy as well, manage better.

Saudi is something like Afghan with lots of oil. They are bail out only with continuous US support and now perpetual US base.
 
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Britain asks: Is America back or has it turned its back?
August 17, 20211:38 AM CST

  • Britain fears al Qaeda will regain Afghan haven
  • U.S. withdrawal was a mistake, Britain says
  • British soldiers question: Was it worth it?
  • West has been humiliated, British diplomats say
LONDON, Aug 16 (Reuters) - The humiliation of the lightning Taliban takeover in Afghanistan after a 20-year war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives has raised a question for the United States' staunchest European ally: Is America really back as President Joe Biden promised?

British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace cast the 2020 Doha withdrawal accord struck by U.S. President Donald Trump's administration as a "rotten deal". Wallace said Biden's decision to leave Afghanistan was a mistake that had enabled the Taliban to re-emerge in power.

Such questioning and such emotion - Wallace was on the brink of tears in one interview - is rare for Washington's closest European ally, which has stood by the United States in almost every major conflict since World War Two apart from Vietnam.

After the tumult of Trump's presidency, Biden has repeatedly promised that "America is back". Some British diplomats are questioning not only that assessment but also the implications for long-term national security.

"Is America back or has it turned its back?" one British official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It looks very much as if the Americans have gone home in a rather Trumpian manner - rushed, chaotic and humiliating."

Western security sources fear al Qaeda, whose founder Osama bin Laden was harboured by the Taliban before 9/11, could regain a foothold in Afghanistan within months. Such a scenario, they say, would threaten both the United Kingdom and the wider West.

British diplomats compared the scale of the West's humiliation to the 1975 fall of Saigon that ended the Vietnam War, or to the 1956 Suez Crisis, a strategic blunder which confirmed the loss of Britain's imperial power.

Photographs of a helicopter evacuating diplomats from the U.S. embassy in Kabul were compared to those from 1975 showing a helicopter plucking diplomats from the roof of the U.S. embassy in Saigon.

BETRAYAL?

Biden has repeatedly argued that a continued U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would not have significantly changed the situation unless the Afghan military could hold its own country.

But British diplomats said the Afghan debacle will undermine the West's standing in the world, rallyjihadists everywhere and strengthen the arguments of Russia and China that the United States and its allies lack both mettle and staying power.

"We must be clear about this: this is a humiliating moment for the West," said Mark Sedwill, who was Britain's most senior civil servant and national security adviser under former Prime Minister Theresa May.

Some British veterans questioned their own sacrifice. Some spoke of a feeling of betrayal. Some said their fallen comrades had died in vain.

"Was it worth it, probably not. Did I lose my legs for nothing, looks like it. Did my mates die in vain. Yep," said Jack Cummings, a former British soldier who lost both legs on Aug. 14, 2010 while searching for improvised explosive devices (IED) in Afghanistan.

"Many emotions going through my head - anger, betrayal sadness to name a few," said Cummings.


Britain was one of a handful of nations prepared to do some of the toughest fighting alongside U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, for example in the southern province of Helmand, considered to be the country's most dangerous.

Britain has lost 457 armed forces personnel in Afghanistan, or 13 percent of the international military coalition's 3,500 fatalities since 2001.

Brown University's Cost of War Project estimates 241,000 people have died as a direct result of the war. Brown estimates the Afghan war has cost the United States $2.26 trillion.

SAIGON OR SUEZ?

British diplomats cast both the Doha agreement of February 2020, struck during Trump's presidency, and Biden's April announcement of a withdrawal as capitulations which destroyed morale in Afghanistan.

Trump said his withdrawal plan had been ruined by Biden.

"The Taliban no longer has fear or respect for America, or America’s power," he said in a statement.

The British empire suffered humiliation in Afghanistan during the 1839-1842 Anglo-Afghan war, but after the Sept. 11 al Qaeda attacks, then-Prime Minister Tony Blair joined U.S. President George W. Bush in invading Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban.

Fast forward 20 years: the Taliban are back in power.

"The fall of Kabul is the biggest foreign policy disaster since Suez," said Tom Tugendhat, chairman of the British parliament's foreign affairs committee.

"It revealed the nature of U.S. power and our inability to hold a separate line," said Tugendhat, who served as a British soldier in both Iraq and Afghanistan. "As Kabul shows, we need our allies to stand with us."

Lol..! the Brits could've just chosen to stay in Afghanistan if they hate leaving so much... 😆😆
 
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mmmm, KMT, SK Army, SV Army, Afghanistan National Amry.... It seems US Army has some major issues with their "military training". Whoever they trained ended up routing.

Even Soviet trained afghan troops last much longer (1989-1992). Meanwhile US trained afghan troops only last a few months 😂

Saudi Arabia also, even trained by US & and flooded by modern equipment. Still getting spanked by Iranian trained Houthi rebels in Yemen.

Imagine, if they need to fight a modern Army
 
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