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Vietnam Rises as Middle Power at Defense Summit: Southeast Asia

Military.

Their economy is underdeveloped.

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Congrats to Vietnam.

But Vietnam is still behind. Economically, Vietnam is weak, militarily, Vietnam is satisfactory.

If Vietnam wants help, they should join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

I still don't understand, just because a country like VN has a few extra toys they can play around with doesn't mean they wield any power in SEA let alone Eastern Asia


Reuters) - A Southeast Asian regional summit ended in acrimony on Friday over China's assertive role in the strategic South China Sea, failing to agree on a concluding joint statement for the first time in its 45-year history.

Divisions between the 10 countries in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) follow a rise in incidents of naval brinkmanship involving Chinese vessels in the oil-rich waters that has sparked fears of a military clash.

The Philippines said it "deplores" ASEAN's failure to address the worsening row, and criticized Cambodia -- a close ally of China -- for its handling of the issue during the foreign ministers' meeting.

Without mentioning China, Philippine Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario told a news conference in Manila that one "member state's" intrusions into Philippine territory were part of a "creeping imposition" of its claim over the entire South China Sea and were raising the risk of a conflict.

The South China Sea has become Asia's biggest potential military flashpoint as Beijing's sovereignty claim over a huge, looping area has set it against Vietnam and the Philippines as the three countries race to tap possibly huge oil reserves.

The stakes have risen as the U.S. military shifts its attention and resources back to Asia, emboldening its long-time ally the Philippines and former foe Vietnam to take a bolder stance against Beijing.

ASEAN's divisions are an ominous sign for a bloc that wants to create a regional economic community by 2015 that would bring down barriers in trade, labor and financial markets -- partly to compete with China for investment.

China is a member of the East Asian Summit and ASEAN Regional Forum which also held meetings in Cambodia.

"The increasing assertion by this member state over the disputed and non-disputed areas poses a threat to the peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region," del Rosario said.

"If left unchecked, the increasing tension that is being generated in the process could further escalate into physical hostilities which no one wants."

China has been accused of using its heavy influence over summit chair Cambodia and several other ASEAN members to block regional-level discussions on the issue and attempts to agree a binding maritime Code of Conduct to manage the dispute.

The Philippines said it took "strong exception" to Cambodia's statement that the non-issuance of a communique was due to "bilateral conflict between some ASEAN member states and a neighboring country".

It said it had only requested that the communique mention the recent standoff between Chinese and Philippine ships at the Scarborough Shoal, a horseshoe-shaped reef in waters that both countries claim.

Indonesia, the biggest economy in Southeast Asia, played down the rift. "No doubt the South China Sea at the moment is a difficult issue but I'm sure ASEAN will find ways and means to be able to address that problem," Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa told Reuters.

But the rising tensions were underlined on Friday when the Chinese navy said that one of its frigates had run aground on Half Moon Shoal, about 90 nautical miles off the western Philippine island of Palawan.

China said it was conducting a rescue mission and the Philippines said it was sending "assets" to the area to investigate and provide assistance if needed.

"That's a very strategic location to strengthen their claim over the Reed Bank, they are getting closer to our territory, putting one foot inside our fence," one military official told Reuters.

The Philippines scrambled aircraft and ships to the Reed Bank area last year after Chinese navy ships threatened to ram a Philippine survey ship.

"COMBAT READY"

China said last month it had begun "combat-ready" patrols in waters it said were under its control in the South China Sea, after saying it "vehemently opposed" a Vietnamese law asserting sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly islands.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino told Reuters in an interview last week that he may ask the United States to deploy spy planes to monitor the disputed waters.

China, whose trade and investment ties with Cambodia have surged in recent years, has warned that "external forces" should not get involved in the dispute, which it says should only be discussed bilaterally. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also lay claim to parts of the South China Sea.

Vietnam's Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh said he was "very disappointed" over the failure to issue a statement.

In a statement issued late on Thursday, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi repeated that there was "no dispute" about China's sovereignty over Scarborough Shoal.

"China hopes the Philippine side faces the facts squarely and stops creating trouble," he added.

The United States has stressed it is neutral in the long-running maritime dispute, despite offering to help boost the Philippines' decrepit military forces. It says freedom of navigation is its main concern about a waterway that carries $5 trillion in trade - half the world's shipping tonnage.
 
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We always find out the way to defeat enemies. Weather is not big problem to US, and we still defeated them. Dont say we wont bcz we had Soviet-China's aid coz without support from US's allies like Thailand, NATO, Australia etc US couldnt set foot and drop bomb on Vn's soil too :coffee:

The key is the difference between ancient army and modern army. Vietnam's weather for ancient army is beyond the limit, Chinese and Mongols included. Different diseases made all the conquests worthless compared to the lost.
 
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I still don't understand, just because a country like VN has a few extra toys they can play around with doesn't mean they wield any power in SEA let alone Eastern Asia

They control Laos and Cambodia, that's why.
 
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Thanks for your data. In my opinion, Vietnam is enemy usually according to the history. But we should recognize the enemy's advantages. And I try to discuss by unbiased way. Vietnamese could conquer their neighbours,defeat mongols, defeat USA and France. We have to admit they are superior compared to their neighbours in the race competition,which always exists actually.
Work hard, study hard, love their country, have enough ambition,disciplined people, single nation ---they have those advantages, and very similar to excellent north Asia countries( Japan, Korea,China). Though they seem to be the most dangerous enemy in southeast Asia.



Weather is the most important factor that China couldn't occupy Vietnam in long term,not iq.

The Tran dynasty which defeated the Mongols at Bach Dang River in 1288 was of Chinese origin. The founder of the Tran family in Vietnam came from Fujian province in China. The Tran prince who defeated the Mongols could speak Chinese.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

Many dynasties which ruled Vietnam when it was independent, like Au Lac, Nanyue, First Ly dynasty, Tran dynasty and Ho dynasty were of Chinese origin
 
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The Tran dynasty which defeated the Mongols at Bach Dang River in 1288 was of Chinese origin. The founder of the Tran family in Vietnam came from Fujian province in China. The Tran prince who defeated the Mongols could speak Chinese.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

Many dynasties which ruled Vietnam when it was independent, like Au Lac, Nanyue, First Ly dynasty, Tran dynasty and Ho dynasty were of Chinese origin
But Tran people are not Han,they r Mân (maybe "Mǐn" in Chinese.). Thats why, they dont like Han chinese :pop:
Fujian

This area was also the place for the kingdom of Minyue. The word "Mǐnyuè" was derived by combining "Mǐn" (閩/闽; Pe̍h-ōe-jī: bân), perhaps an ethnic name and associated with the Chinese word for barbarians (蠻/蛮; pinyin: mán; POJ: bân), and "Yuè", after the State of Yue, a Spring and Autumn Period kingdom in Zhejiang to the north. This is because the royal family of Yuè fled to Fujian after their kingdom was annexed by the State of Chu in 306 BC. Mǐn is also the name of the main river in this area, but the ethnonym is probably earlier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujian
 
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congratulations to vietnamese brothers.
i wish they become the sole super power in asia.
@ b@tthurt chini trolls get a life :lol:
 
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But Tran people are not Han,they r Mân (maybe "Mǐn" in Chinese.). Thats why, they dont like Han chinese :pop:

Fujian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The people of Fujian are Han. Many northern Han fled to Fujian during the division of China during the Jin dynasty (265–420).

Portrait of a Community

The pure descendants of the Baiyue in Fujian live in boats and are a minority of a few thousand.

Fuzhou Tanka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DNA tests show that the Y chromosome of Han in Fujian is almost 100% from northern Han, Y chromosome is inherited from the father.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google knygos

Y chromosome data show that on average southern Chinese Han have a large paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han (82%). But mtDNA data show that southern Chinese Han have equal maternal contributions from northern Chinese Han (56%) and southern Chinese natives ( 44%) (Table 4A). The high paternal but lower maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han indicate strong sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han over the past two millennia (Wen et al. 2004). A more recent comparison of paternal and maternal data confirmed the sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han (Xue et al. 2008).

When we consider the admixture proportions of Fujian Han and Guangdong Han, the ancestors of Taiwanese Han, sex-biased admixture is even more evident than in the southern Chinese Han averages. Fujian Han are estimated to have a 100 percent paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han but only a 34 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. Guangdong Han are estimated to have 68 percent paternal but only 1 5 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. The maternal contributions from southern Chinese natives to Fujian and Guangdong Han were estimated as 66 percent and 85 percent (Table 3A), respectively. The extreme sex-biased contributions in Fujian Han and Guangdong Han indicate that the male ancestors of Taiwanese Han frequently intermarried with the female ancestors of southern Chinese natives before they migrated to Taiwan.

This sex-bias illustrates a significant feature of the Han expansion: many male migrants from northern China married women from local non-Han populations in the south. Therefore, the Han-grandfathers-Indigenous-grandmothers folk saying seems to apply generally to southern China over the past two millenia.

There is a saying in Taiwan, "mainland grandfather no mainland grandmother" 有唐山公無唐山媽 because Han men from mainland (Fujian) would marry Aboriginal Taiwanese women.

Most of northern and southern Han's Y chromosome is similar.

0b9b8d714566edea3954827c018a3c88.jpg


The founder of the Min Kingdom even came from Henan in northern China. He was Wang Shenzhi.

Wang Shenzhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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By the definition, vn is not even a regional power.

Middle Power: Middle power is a term in the field of international relations that describes states that are not superpowers or great powers, but still have large or moderate influence and international recognition. Both Indonesia and Vietnam are globally Middle Power countries.

Middle power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Regional Power: In international relations, a regional power is a state that has power within a geographic region. States which wield unrivaled power and influence within a region of the world possess regional hegemony. Assert the biggest military and economic power of the region and shape the polarity of the region but do not have capabilities to rival Superpowers in global scale.
Regionally, Indonesia is the central power of the whole South East Asia. Meanwhile, Thailand and Vietnam are both militarily and economically influencing Indochina, making Thailand and Vietnam become minor regional power of South East Asia.

Regional power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Ethnically the Vietnamese are very close to East Asians, who have consistently exhibited superior intelligence to Indians in all tests performed. This report should not be a surprise. The Vietnamese can pose a much more serious threat to China in future than the Indians who will be nothing more than a nuisance from time to time.
 
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congratulations to vietnamese brothers.
i wish they become the sole super power in asia.
@ b@tthurt chini trolls get a life :lol:

No, they are not you brothers. In your mind, they are puppet of supa pawa India, India think small and weak Vietnam as its puppet to fight against China, you never take Viet as your friend, although Vietnam has 10 points higher IQ than you.

Both of you loser countries are enemies of China, however, do you think Vietnam will regard you as big brother? Wet dream! :hang2: They would rather follow Russia or US, they will never consider you as big tree, you are nothing valuable to them, you are burden to them. Even Vietnam has a higher GDP per capital than you India loser. You want Vietnam to be included in your sphere of influence? Idiot, you should ask them if they take your offer or not. Do you think Vietnam is as poor as India?

One more thing, of course, losers will always have common language. Congrats to both of you.
 
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No, they are not you brothers. In your mind, they are puppet of supa pawa India, India think small and weak Vietnam as its puppet to fight against China, you never take Viet as your friend, although Vietnam has 10 points higher IQ than you.

Both of you loser countries are enemies of China, however, do you think Vietnam will regard you as big brother? Wet dream! :hang2: They would rather follow Russia or US, they will never consider you as big tree, you are nothing valuable to them, you are burden to them. Even Vietnam has a higher GDP per capital than you India loser. You want Vietnam to be included in your sphere of influence? Idiot, you should ask them if they take your offer or not. Do you think Vietnam is as poor as India?

One more thing, of course, losers will always have common language. Congrats to both of you.

i didn't read the whole post because first line was enough to make sure that you are one b@tthurt chini troll :lol:
 
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Dai Viet was advanced in souheast asia like how Europeans were advanced when they came to America and killed the natives. They used their advanced technology to wipe out states like Champa and kill tens of thousands of Cham and then attack their neighbors like Lan Xang. Vietnamese are also racist and think their Indianized southeast asian neighbors are inferior, if that's what you mean by pride.

I don't respect that kind of advancement.
are you a Cham or so. If you have a heart for them, pls feel free and take them to China or Taiwan. I wonder why you repeatly tell us a story of 650 years ago? Also, can you tell us the genocide in Cambodia supported by red China from 1975 to 1979?

Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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