Vietnam Rises as Middle Power at Defense Summit: Southeast Asia

[Wholegrain]

China is not a greatpower, even not a global power actually, though I'am Chinese. We should admit many problems are with us, varied from economy to environment ,politics.

I agree with the conclusion that Vietnam is a middle power. The author didn't give us more information to prove it. But the history is a good mirror. Vietnam was much advanced than any of the other countries in southeast Asia throughout 1000 years. So Vietnam acchieves advantages from other countries in southeast Aisa is very natural.

A uinted nationality, good culture,enough population, the pride for their history/culture,……all of the above let them be NO.1 of all the countries in southeast Asia. In fact, one of the main factors for our help to keep Laos and Cambodia independent is to avoid Vietnam conquer the whole IndoChina. If the resources from Laos and Cambodia plus Vietnam's population, the new Vietnam will acquire the ability to unite the whole southeast Aisa.

Any clever politicians in China have never consider Indonesia as a long-term opponent compared to Vietnam. The latter has enough resoureces and enough population,but its culture and tradition is very poor. I'am sorry to show the truth to Indonesia friends here.

Your full of crap. Vietnam was not more advanced than other southeast asian countries, it was its rice intensive agriculture which allowed it to sustain a large population and genocide the Cham.

 

[zhangjt]

To wholegrain, You only know "just now", but don't know the future.

You should analyze problems from the aspect of history. Vietnam's poverty is only a short-term question throughout its history.


In long run, it still the only one who could own the ability to challenge China.

 

[nufix]

but its culture and tradition is very poor.

Interesting, would you care to elaborate it?

 

[Viet]

well congrats lads, i wish your country can became more wiser and mature than ever before

no worry mate, the last thing on earth Vietnam wants is a war. Interesting, the Chinese seem to see so, too.

China calls for expanding continental, maritime cooperation with Vietnam - Xinhua | English.news.cn

 

[Wholegrain]

To wholegrain, You only know "just now", but don't know the future.

You should analyze problems from the aspect of history. Vietnam's poverty is only a short-term question throughout its history.


In long run, it still the only one who could own the ability to challenge China.

Dai Viet was advanced in souheast asia like how Europeans were advanced when they came to America and killed the natives. They used their advanced technology to wipe out states like Champa and kill tens of thousands of Cham and then attack their neighbors like Lan Xang. Vietnamese are also racist and think their Indianized southeast asian neighbors are inferior, if that's what you mean by pride.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-years-ahead-indian-pupils-3.html#post4737832

The Vietnamese viewed the surrounding Indianized souheast asian Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim peoples as inferior because of their Indic civilization. Vietnam believed it was the center and master of southeast asia. Vietnamese rulers would take the title of "Emperor" referring to themselves and call Vietnam an "Empire" and it claimed all of the surrounding Indianized Kingdoms were its vassal and tributaries, like Champa, Chiangmai (Thailand), Ayuttaya (Thailand), Lan Xang (Laos), Cambodia, Malacca (Malaysia), and Java (Indonesia).

Dai Viet (Vietnam) engaged in a massive military campaign in its neighbors especially in the 15th century. It went to war, crushed Champa and genoicded the Cham, then raided the Indianized Tai chieftainships in Lan Xang (modern day Laos) and pretty much terrorized its Indianized Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist neighbors. The Vietnamese used Confucian rhettoric of restoring order to the "babarians" to justify their atacks. The unprovoked aggresion by Vietnam against its neighbors was unprecedented during that time.

Some Vietnamese racists claim that Chinese run economies of other southeast asian countries but not Vietnam because those other souheast asians are lazy because of their Indic culture.

Dai Viet (Vietnam) used Classical Chinese as its official language, and Confucianism as their ideology, but it was a big enemy of China.

China's best allies were in southeast asia were in fact the Indianized Muslim Kingdoms (who were previously Hindu or animist), like the Malacca Sutanate and Sulu Sultanate, and Kingdom of Champa. Those states were all protectorates of China. Some of the Malays still use Indian titles like "Maharajah" and Sanskrit words. Champa and Malacca were China's allies against Vietnam. China helped protect Malacca from Ayutthaya Hindu Majapahits when the Malaccan Sultan Parameswara converted Hinduism to Islam and renamed himself Iskandar Shah, since China saw the spread of Muslim Sultanates as an oppurtunity for China to expand its influence and ally with the new states, establishing protectorates over them against foreign invaders like the Portuguese.

In fact when Vietnam conquered Champa, they brought Chinese culture in the form of Confucianism and Chinese characters to the newly conquered land, but it was negative for China because we lost our ally and our enemy gained land.

We do not base our alliances on common culture or civilization. I do not think negatively at all of the southeast asians who adopted Indian culture despite my negative feelings about India. I thihk that the so called "lazyness" of the indianized Malays is just people who misperceive the easygoing way of life they live in comparison to OCD type people like Vietnamese.

And the Indic heritage of southeast asians does not mean they like India, they were allied to China while Vietnam was the enemy of China. Since most southeast asians are of Indianized culture and Vietnam is the only southeast asians who adopted civilization from China, this situation is a net gain for China if Indianized southeast asians ally with China and Vietnam allies with India. China should build stronger relations with former Indic influenced states like Malaysia to offset Vietnam.

When Dai Viet went on a genocidal rampage against its Indianized southeast asian enighbors in the 15th century during the Le dynasty, it replaced Buddhism with Confucianism and severely curtailed Buddhist infleunce in Vietnam.

Confucianism and Democratization in East Asia - Doh Chull Shin, To-ch»Ol Sin - Google knygos

Religions of the World, Second Edition

Dai Viet used Confucian language and claimed to be the heir of ancient Chinese civilization, when it began its genocidal wars against its indianized neighbors like Champa, Lan Xang, Ava, and Tai kingdoms.

Blood and Soil

Blood and Soil

I don't respect that kind of advancement.

 

[NiceGuy]

Dai Viet was advanced in souheast asia like how Europeans were advanced when they came to America and killed the natives. They used their advanced technology to wipe out states like Champa and kill tens of thousands of Cham and then attack their neighbors like Lan Xang. Vietnamese are also racist and think their Indianized southeast asian neighbors are inferior, if that's what you mean by pride.

Not only advanced technology than Laos-Camb-Champa, but our IQ is also far better than Chinese, thats why we have Perfect spy who can cheat any one when China dont have any one can do the same, so its territory TW still remain under US's occupation

Big country but low IQ, poor you Chinese

I don't respect that kind of advancement

Dont respect our advance ? who cares, low IQ like u never see what we can do in long term

 

[eddieInUK]

Viet is quite a military power in this area, economic development should be boosted.

 

[Wholegrain]

Not only advanced technology than Laos-Camb-Champa, but our IQ is also far better than Chinese, thats why we have Perfect spy who can cheat any one when China dont have any one can do the same, so its territory TW still remain under US's occupation

Big country but low IQ, poor you Chinese

Dont respect our advance ? who cares, low IQ like u never see what we can do in long term

All of Dai Viet's technology and ideology was ripped off and copied from China. Dai Viet acquired Chinese gunpowder technology after Ming rule, and used it to destroy Champa.

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_011.pdf

http://www.vietnetlinks.com/thuvien/daivietmilitarytechnology.pdf

http://www.aafv.org/spip.php?action.../SunLaichen_ChineseStyleFirearmsInDaiViet.pdf

The Chams themselves did not like to use gunpowder weapons and only slaves in their armies deployed them.

Viet Nam

Blood and Soil

Dai Viet used Confucian language and claimed to be the heir of ancient Chinese civilization, when it began its genocidal wars against its indianized neighbors like Champa, Lan Xang, Ava, and Tai kingdoms. Dai Viet historians even said Vietnamese were descended from Emperor Shennong of China. It twisted Confucian values in order to justify its aggresion and genocide of so called "barbarian" Cham.

Blood and Soil

Blood and Soil

China is responsible for the creation of Vietnam, since their ideology, writing, state institutions, government, and military technology came from China. The reason Vietnam was not indianized like its neighbors is because of China. Even former Tai kingdoms in Yunnan province received Indian influence and Indic script while Vietnam was a Sinic civlization with influence from China. Dynasties which ruled Vietnam like Au Lac, Nanyue, First Ly dynasty, Tran dynasty and Ho dynasty were of Chinese origin.

 

[NiceGuy]

All of Dai Viet's technology and ideology was ripped off and copied from China. Dai Viet acquired Chinese gunpowder technology after Ming rule, and used it to destroy Champa.
]

Oki, we copied ur technology and ideology to get better, but you cant copy our perfect spy coz ur IQ is too low to do it ,thats why China always lose in war against VN

 

[zhangjt]

Dai Viet was advanced in souheast asia like how Europeans were advanced when they came to America and killed the natives. They used their advanced technology to wipe out states like Champa and kill tens of thousands of Cham and then attack their neighbors like Lan Xang. Vietnamese are also racist and think their Indianized southeast asian neighbors are inferior, if that's what you mean by pride.

I don't respect that kind of advancement.

Thanks for your data. In my opinion, Vietnam is enemy usually according to the history. But we should recognize the enemy's advantages. And I try to discuss by unbiased way. Vietnamese could conquer their neighbours,defeat mongols, defeat USA and France. We have to admit they are superior compared to their neighbours in the race competition,which always exists actually.
Work hard, study hard, love their country, have enough ambition,disciplined people, single nation ---they have those advantages, and very similar to excellent north Asia countries( Japan, Korea,China). Though they seem to be the most dangerous enemy in southeast Asia.

Oki, we copied ur technology and ideology to get better, but you cant copy our perfect spy coz ur IQ is too low to do it ,thats why China always lose in war against VN

Weather is the most important factor that China couldn't occupy Vietnam in long term,not iq.

 

[NiceGuy]

Weather is the most important factor that China couldn't occupy Vietnam in long term,not iq.

We always find out the way to defeat enemies. Weather is not big problem to US, and we still defeated them. Dont say we wont bcz we had Soviet-China's aid coz without support from US's allies like Thailand, NATO, Australia etc US couldnt set foot and drop bomb on Vn's soil too

 

[ephone]

what is the difference between middle power and regional power? Which one is greater?

China can be Superpower, while Vietnam Middle and Indonesia as Regional Power, the rest as just Power

 

[nufix]

what is the difference between middle power and regional power? Which one is greater?

Middle Power: Middle power is a term in the field of international relations that describes states that are not superpowers or great powers, but still have large or moderate influence and international recognition. Both Indonesia and Vietnam are globally Middle Power countries.

Middle power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Regional Power: In international relations, a regional power is a state that has power within a geographic region. States which wield unrivaled power and influence within a region of the world possess regional hegemony. Assert the biggest military and economic power of the region and shape the polarity of the region but do not have capabilities to rival Superpowers in global scale.
Regionally, Indonesia is the central power of the whole South East Asia. Meanwhile, Thailand and Vietnam are both militarily and economically influencing Indochina, making Thailand and Vietnam become minor regional power of South East Asia.

Regional power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[yue10]

VN is a middle power based on what?

 

[Fsjal]

VN is a middle power based on what?

Military.

Their economy is underdeveloped.

----------------
Congrats to Vietnam.

But Vietnam is still behind. Economically, Vietnam is weak, militarily, Vietnam is satisfactory.

If Vietnam wants help, they should join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.