Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[Carlosa]

How you know thats not come true? Lets wait and see, what Goa Shipyard Ltd producing for Vietnam.

@Carlosa We need to wait and see what is the GRSE weapon system offer to Philippines Navy, from there we can conclude many things..

Yes, we have to wait and see. I already know from experience that when it comes to weapon purchases for Vietnam, nothing is for sure until you see it. Too many rumors. Plus, Vietnam keeps going back and forth, they change their mind all the time.

 

[MKC]

Yes. Its about that with 16x KH35 and Radar, fire control.
Guided Missiles is the only big difference between Molniya and TT400TP.

Without it, I choose TT400TP over Mol. 16x KH35 also shorten the operating duration of Molniya. they should find another platform with more displacement and integrate lighter naval gun.

Don't know why such small vessels have 16 SSMs, I think 8 SSM are more than enough for such ships, even India wanted 4 Veer class but project was stopped on 2.
Remaining load can be used for increasing range or SAM strength.

Check what Indian Navy paid for to get the final pair of Veer class craft.

That was before 1998 shouldn't be considered. Built after those ships & much better Kora-class cost was $36 million at time of building. Don't know why IN stopped that project on just 4 ships, may be stealth quality a reason.

How you know thats not come true? Lets wait and see, what Goa Shipyard Ltd producing for Vietnam.

@Carlosa We need to wait and see what is the GRSE weapon system offer to Philippines Navy, from there we can conclude many things.

I think GSL isn't building anything for VPN because in their poster in Defexpo'16 I saw Sri Lanka, Mauritius & myanmar only may be phographer didn't take all pictures. Do you have any source?

 

[William Hung]

How you know thats not come true? Lets wait and see, what Goa Shipyard Ltd producing for Vietnam.

Because it was later publically revealed, after much speculation in that thread, that Vietnam was actually negotiating with GRSE for small fast patrol boats with the 100 mil credit line instead of the 75m OPV from GSL speculated in that thread.

 

[Penguin]

How you know thats not come true? Lets wait and see, what Goa Shipyard Ltd producing for Vietnam.

@Carlosa We need to wait and see what is the GRSE weapon system offer to Philippines Navy, from there we can conclude many things.



If that is the case then why Indian Navy calling P-17A as frigate project, which consist same number and quantity of weapon systems as in Kolkata class and Vizag Class?

Thats why I say never believe in sources of Janes especially for Asia which have only one person in India and Vietnam, that too only do copy and paste from sources like ToI, Ajai Shukla , Shiv Aroor etc etc.

But the news for P28 wasn't from Janes (or did I miss something in post 1?)

 

[Penguin]

Don't know why such small vessels have 16 SSMs, I think 8 SSM are more than enough for such ships, even India wanted 4 Veer class but project was stopped on 2.
Remaining load can be used for increasing range or SAM strength.

Uran is light and cheap and intended to swamp improved sea-skimmer defences (streaming attack, from multiple vectors)

That was before 1998 shouldn't be considered. Built after those ships & much better Kora-class cost was $36 million at time of building. Don't know why IN stopped that project on just 4 ships, may be stealth quality a reason.

First of class INS Veer was commissioned at Poti, Georgia, in former USSR on March 26, 1987. She carried four P-20M (SS-N-2D) AShMs, as did the following 10 more craft, the last of which commissioned 1 March 1997. Two more were built as the upgraded Tarantul V with 16 SS-N-25 'Switchblade' / URAN E Missiles, 1 licenced copy of OTO Melara 76 mm instead of the AK-176, and MR 352 Positiv-E (NATO: Cross Dome) Radar. INS Prabal commissioned 11 April 2002 and PNS Pralaya on 18 December 2002. I was referring to the cost of the latter two ships.

Likewise you saw the switch in missiles from P25 Kuhkri (4 ships) to P25A Kora (4 ships). These 8 were intended as replacement of retired Soviet era Petya ASW ships.

Delhi / P15 got 16 Uran but was originally intended to get Moskits (2x4, like Sovremenny): CCCP collaps prevented that.

 

[MKC]

These frigates will be Kamorta-class not smaller than Kamorta-class as per Defense News but cost is $321 million or 160 million dollar per ship.
It seems Defensenews.com just picked specs reqd.

GRSE to Export Light Frigates to Philippines
Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News EDT May 12, 2016

NEW DELHI — In a major win for the Indian warship building industry, India's state-run Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) Ltd has emerged as the winner for Philippine Navy's big-ticket modernization program.

GRSE was the lowest bidder to supply two light frigates and hopes to seal the contract worth more than $321 million in the next two months, said one GRSE official.

A total of four firms joined the bidding for the Philippine Navy project: GRSE; Hyundai Heavy Industries Inc. and Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd., both from South Korea; and Navantia S.A. of Spain.

GRSE, administered by the Indian Ministry of Defence, has built 95 warships, including frigates, corvettes and fast patrol boats, since 1960.

GRSE's light frigate will be a design based on the Indian Navy's Kamorta-class anti-submarine corvette and will be capable of withstanding Sea State 7, which means it can withstand a wave height of up to 9 meters.

The 2,000-tonne frigate will be 95 meters long, have a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration propulsion system and be able to work in an area contaminated with nuclear, biological, and chemical agents.

In addition, it will have a tactical data link and radio capable of tactical communication. The frigates will have 76mm naval guns and fire control radar with a built-in electro-optical tracking system integrated into the Combat Management System (CMS).

The state-owned Goa Shipyard is also building two OPVs for the Sri Lankan Navy under India's government-to-government exchange agreement with Sri Lanka. First OPV will be delivered by end of this year and second OPV by middle of next year.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

Any official source confirming purchase of P28s ? Either from Philippines or Vietnam ?

P28 is the lowest in Philippines tender, but what is the update from Vietnam side ?

 

[Carlosa]

These frigates will be Kamorta-class not smaller than Kamorta-class as per Defense News but cost is $321 million or 160 million dollar per ship.
It seems Defensenews.com just picked specs reqd.

GRSE to Export Light Frigates to Philippines
Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News EDT May 12, 2016

NEW DELHI — In a major win for the Indian warship building industry, India's state-run Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) Ltd has emerged as the winner for Philippine Navy's big-ticket modernization program.

GRSE was the lowest bidder to supply two light frigates and hopes to seal the contract worth more than $321 million in the next two months, said one GRSE official.

A total of four firms joined the bidding for the Philippine Navy project: GRSE; Hyundai Heavy Industries Inc. and Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd., both from South Korea; and Navantia S.A. of Spain.

GRSE, administered by the Indian Ministry of Defence, has built 95 warships, including frigates, corvettes and fast patrol boats, since 1960.

GRSE's light frigate will be a design based on the Indian Navy's Kamorta-class anti-submarine corvette and will be capable of withstanding Sea State 7, which means it can withstand a wave height of up to 9 meters.

The 2,000-tonne frigate will be 95 meters long, have a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration propulsion system and be able to work in an area contaminated with nuclear, biological, and chemical agents.

In addition, it will have a tactical data link and radio capable of tactical communication. The frigates will have 76mm naval guns and fire control radar with a built-in electro-optical tracking system integrated into the Combat Management System (CMS).

The state-owned Goa Shipyard is also building two OPVs for the Sri Lankan Navy under India's government-to-government exchange agreement with Sri Lanka. First OPV will be delivered by end of this year and second OPV by middle of next year.

Congrats India !!!!!!!! First of many. India outbid South Korea. Actually, India can outbid just about anybody and give ships with Indian, Russian and western tech, not many can do that.

What are the details of sensors and weapon systems?

Any official source confirming purchase of P28s ? Either from Philippines or Vietnam ?

P28 is the lowest in Philippines tender, but what is the update from Vietnam side ?

Unknown about Vietnam, just a rumor at this point.

 

[MKC]

Congrats India !!!!!!!! First of many. India outbid South Korea. Actually, India can outbid just about anybody and give ships with Indian, Russian and western tech, not many can do that.

What are the details of sensors and weapon systems?

I think in his section GRSE is just meeting specification required or may don't want to take any risk from multiple sources so either most of the components will be Indian or French because PhN doesn't operate any Russian system.
So, details about sensors not known but in weapons
Exocet VLS
Mistral SAM (requirement is just for 6km SAM)
Edit: you know total cost is $160.5 million per ship but don't know why did GRSE choose Exocet which is expensive than Harpoon, RBS-15, NSM as BrahMos have Russian components may be because GRSE doesn't want multiple sources.

 

[Carlosa]

I think in his section GRSE is just meeting specification required or may don't want to take any risk from multiple sources so either most of the components will be Indian or French because PhN doesn't operate any Russian system.
So, details about sensors not known but in weapons
Exocet VLS
Mistral SAM (requirement is just for 6km SAM)
Edit: you know total cost is $160.5 million per ship but don't know why did GRSE choose Exocet which is expensive than Harpoon, RBS-15, NSM as BrahMos have Russian components may be because GRSE doesn't want multiple sources.

Yes, the choice for Exocet is a bit strange, that missile is way expensive and that adds up.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

I don't understand this thread. Clearly, not a very reputable 'source', which is outdated anyway.
@Carlosa If Vietnam really wants to buy frigates, why don't you look at actual frigates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formidable-class_frigate

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Don't know why such small vessels have 16 SSMs, I think 8 SSM are more than enough for such ships, even India wanted 4 Veer class but project was stopped on 2.
Remaining load can be used for increasing range or SAM strength.

That was before 1998 shouldn't be considered. Built after those ships & much better Kora-class cost was $36 million at time of building. Don't know why IN stopped that project on just 4 ships, may be stealth quality a reason.

I think GSL isn't building anything for VPN because in their poster in Defexpo'16 I saw Sri Lanka, Mauritius & myanmar only may be phographer didn't take all pictures. Do you have any source?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...a-supply-four-naval-patrol-ships-Vietnam.html

Obviously they never show this as the contract was given by GoI, and not by VN directly.

These frigates will be Kamorta-class not smaller than Kamorta-class as per Defense News but cost is $321 million or 160 million dollar per ship.
It seems Defensenews.com just picked specs reqd.

GRSE to Export Light Frigates to Philippines
Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News EDT May 12, 2016

NEW DELHI — In a major win for the Indian warship building industry, India's state-run Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) Ltd has emerged as the winner for Philippine Navy's big-ticket modernization program.

GRSE was the lowest bidder to supply two light frigates and hopes to seal the contract worth more than $321 million in the next two months, said one GRSE official.

A total of four firms joined the bidding for the Philippine Navy project: GRSE; Hyundai Heavy Industries Inc. and Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd., both from South Korea; and Navantia S.A. of Spain.

GRSE, administered by the Indian Ministry of Defence, has built 95 warships, including frigates, corvettes and fast patrol boats, since 1960.

GRSE's light frigate will be a design based on the Indian Navy's Kamorta-class anti-submarine corvette and will be capable of withstanding Sea State 7, which means it can withstand a wave height of up to 9 meters.

The 2,000-tonne frigate will be 95 meters long, have a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration propulsion system and be able to work in an area contaminated with nuclear, biological, and chemical agents.

In addition, it will have a tactical data link and radio capable of tactical communication. The frigates will have 76mm naval guns and fire control radar with a built-in electro-optical tracking system integrated into the Combat Management System (CMS).

The state-owned Goa Shipyard is also building two OPVs for the Sri Lankan Navy under India's government-to-government exchange agreement with Sri Lanka. First OPV will be delivered by end of this year and second OPV by middle of next year.

Do you have full report link of that Expression of Interest. Thats pretty interesting.

Because it was later publically revealed, after much speculation in that thread, that Vietnam was actually negotiating with GRSE for small fast patrol boats with the 100 mil credit line instead of the 75m OPV from GSL speculated in that thread.

There is no information as such neither non official nor official.

Further GSL specifically designed that for VN and SLN, not for any other customer.

These frigates will be Kamorta-class not smaller than Kamorta-class as per Defense News but cost is $321 million or 160 million dollar per ship.
It seems Defensenews.com just picked specs reqd.

GRSE to Export Light Frigates to Philippines
Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News EDT May 12, 2016

NEW DELHI — In a major win for the Indian warship building industry, India's state-run Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) Ltd has emerged as the winner for Philippine Navy's big-ticket modernization program.

GRSE was the lowest bidder to supply two light frigates and hopes to seal the contract worth more than $321 million in the next two months, said one GRSE official.

A total of four firms joined the bidding for the Philippine Navy project: GRSE; Hyundai Heavy Industries Inc. and Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd., both from South Korea; and Navantia S.A. of Spain.

GRSE, administered by the Indian Ministry of Defence, has built 95 warships, including frigates, corvettes and fast patrol boats, since 1960.

GRSE's light frigate will be a design based on the Indian Navy's Kamorta-class anti-submarine corvette and will be capable of withstanding Sea State 7, which means it can withstand a wave height of up to 9 meters.

The 2,000-tonne frigate will be 95 meters long, have a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration propulsion system and be able to work in an area contaminated with nuclear, biological, and chemical agents.

In addition, it will have a tactical data link and radio capable of tactical communication. The frigates will have 76mm naval guns and fire control radar with a built-in electro-optical tracking system integrated into the Combat Management System (CMS).

The state-owned Goa Shipyard is also building two OPVs for the Sri Lankan Navy under India's government-to-government exchange agreement with Sri Lanka. First OPV will be delivered by end of this year and second OPV by middle of next year.

Yeah found it

http://grse.nic.in/eoi_file/2016.02.17_11-37-12EOI 414.pdf

I think in his section GRSE is just meeting specification required or may don't want to take any risk from multiple sources so either most of the components will be Indian or French because PhN doesn't operate any Russian system.
So, details about sensors not known but in weapons
Exocet VLS
Mistral SAM (requirement is just for 6km SAM)
Edit: you know total cost is $160.5 million per ship but don't know why did GRSE choose Exocet which is expensive than Harpoon, RBS-15, NSM as BrahMos have Russian components may be because GRSE doesn't want multiple sources.

BTW, there is no shipyard in India or CMS existed in India that can be integrated with American weapon systems, that not going to be easy.

For GRSE, integrating Israeli and Russian systems is a simple job, and there weapon support, software etc already existed in India.

 

[Carlosa]

I don't understand this thread. Clearly, not a very reputable 'source', which is outdated anyway.
@Carlosa If Vietnam really wants to buy frigates, why don't you look at actual frigates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formidable-class_frigate

Yes, we don't know the source that the article used, so its just a possibility at this point.

The formidable is a nice ship, but Vietnam tends to buy from countries that it already have a developed relationship with in terms of defense matters, they are a bit risk averse, so that's not very likely to be the type of choice that they want.

 

[William Hung]

There is no information as such neither non official nor official.

You’re probably wasn’t aware of the context of that thread I was referring to. We were discussing the news that VN was to buy 4 vessels from India with the 100 mil credit line...and the speculations in that thread was that its referring to the 75m OPV from GSL. But months later it was revealed that they are actually about small aluminium fast patrol boats from GRSE.

Here is the quote from an GRSE official:

http://m.ndtv.com/india-news/india-...increase-footprints-in-south-china-sea-715108


"The sale of at least four patrol vessels comes as part of the $100 million credit line for military extended to Vietnam by India," Rear Admiral AK Verma (retd) Chairman and Managing Director of GRSE said.

These patrol vessels will be about 35 meters in length, 10 meters broad and will have specialized Aluminum Hull.

The speculations made in that thread was wrong. Thats what I was referring to when I said it didnt become true. Now whether VN will order similar OPV from GSL in the future, I got no idea, but thats beside the point.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Man, I was just trying to correct the meaning of “tolerate” (although Im not a good english speaker). You denied that you were saying “tolerate” the trolling/insults, but in essence, you were indeed suggesting “tolerate the trolling/insults from the chinese, just come talk/give info to us”, was it not? anyway, ignore this issue for now. You are free to carry on with your conversation here, I’m not stopping you.

My points were these:

A lot of the details related to VN navy/CG in this thread was inaccurate. If you were just trying to discuss for fun then thats ok, but if you were trying to speculate or ascertain some kind of VN navy procurement plans, then you are going into the wrong direction, might just be wasting time. Remember we had a really long thread about this on PDF a long time ago:

It did not came true.

And more importantly, why didn’t more vn members came to correct some inaccurate details or to give more details in this thread? there are other viet lurkers who read some of the threads here, even the ones from the vn language forum with more accurate info but wont speak up. Well, I tried to give the reasons in my first couple of posts in this thread. But as I said, you seem to not get it being a non-vietnamese and just call me obssessed.

I’m not stopping you to continue in this thread...other viet lurkers with more accurate info are still interested to read opinions and speculations from foreigners about vn military. Just saying you guys have been heading in the wrong direction with your speculation.

Sorry for that. Now I find official source.
http://grse.nic.in/page_news.php?page_id=131

But fact of the matter is that design was only for VN and SLN.

But it seems like SLN ordered 2 Coast Guard version of Saryu Class OPV, after its involvement in Libya Evacuation.

For Sri Lanka there is no sense to buy warships with AShM, its better to fund solutions in HA/HD and for anti piracy. But of Vietnam Navy, I am still unable to understand. Or Vietnam totally unaware of threats it facing.