Vietnam might soon announce its approval for BrahMos

[PARIKRAMA]

That modified Block III Brahmos sounds to me like it would be ideal to attack the chinese submarine base in Hainan Island.

It has much bigger repercussions..

such a system even if near by Hanoi to say towards the coast will raise the temperature of already pretty much HOT SCS zone.

Secondly MTCR, India has binded herself.. and unless we can say such a agreement happened in the past before signing to MTCR its difficult. Its not a lie that Block 3 request first came in 2014 middle but modification variant came to light much much later. In fact it was leaked by a US Intelligence which got information of this variant test about approx a year back. By that time, Indian application to MTCR has already happened.

Inspite of that i still believe Block 1 Brahmos will be enough if you wish to take out say basic infrastructure. The missile reach itself will always create the ambiguity. of course in terms of a proper MTCR complied missile deployment will get limited zones

That actually narrows down the sites and can be taken out first easily.

But the sub pens will survive surely and this will be the end ... bcz once they are out they will launch their salvo which Vietnam cant counter (at least as of now for sure). So you need a credible BMD. I suggest check with Russia for S300 or S-350.. I am sure later you can try for S-400 or even S-500 but i guess China factor may give you access to more of S-300 or S-350 system. That with Pantsirs and Tor will safeguard you folks better.

One other question, those 4 boats that you mentioned, would they be OPVs or just the first batch of those 37 meter small fast patrol boats? We are not sure if there is just 1 naval deal going on or 2.

I have heard about Gepard and Molniya. Not all will be replaced but rather a mix to create mission specific flexibility from the beginning. But we will get confirmation only after the number of systems purchased and number of missiles to confirm the same.

 

[Carlosa]

It has much bigger repercussions..

such a system even if near by Hanoi to say towards the coast will raise the temperature of already pretty much HOT SCS zone.

View attachment 329825

Secondly MTCR, India has binded herself.. and unless we can say such a agreement happened in the past before signing to MTCR its difficult. Its not a lie that Block 3 request first came in 2014 middle but modification variant came to light much much later. In fact it was leaked by a US Intelligence which got information of this variant test about approx a year back. By that time, Indian application to MTCR has already happened.

Inspite of that i still believe Block 1 Brahmos will be enough if you wish to take out say basic infrastructure. The missile reach itself will always create the ambiguity. of course in terms of a proper MTCR complied missile deployment will get limited zones

View attachment 329826

That actually narrows down the sites and can be taken out first easily.

But the sub pens will survive surely and this will be the end ... bcz once they are out they will launch their salvo which Vietnam cant counter (at least as of now for sure). So you need a credible BMD. I suggest check with Russia for S300 or S-350.. I am sure later you can try for S-400 or even S-500 but i guess China factor may give you access to more of S-300 or S-350 system. That with Pantsirs and Tor will safeguard you folks better.



I have heard about Gepard and Molniya. Not all will be replaced but rather a mix to create mission specific flexibility from the beginning. But we will get confirmation only after the number of systems purchased and number of missiles to confirm the same.

Thank you very much. Vietnam has 2 S-300PMU-2 and is in negotiations to buy up 4 S-400s. That's what we know so far.

 

[Penguin]

This is great, but what I don't understand is how the Brahmos can be fitted into the existing Gepard frigates, I don't see the space for it. To fit it into new Molniya class corvettes, oh yes, they are planning 4 more with a new missile, so that fits, but into the Gepards, I don't see it.

Here are some pics of the Gepard
View attachment 329800 View attachment 329802

Like so:

Front Kashtan gone, 8-cell Russian VLS installed (same as used on e.g. Talwar and Shivalik)

That's 4 decks worth of depth in that position (i.e. around 10m)

 

[Carlosa]

I have heard about Gepard and Molniya. Not all will be replaced but rather a mix to create mission specific flexibility from the beginning. But we will get confirmation only after the number of systems purchased and number of missiles to confirm the same.

By the 4 boats that you mentioned, I was talking about the 4 boats that will be made in India for Vietnam. We are not sure if they are the 37 meter fast patrol boats (that deal is for sure) or if India will also make some OPVs for Vietnam. That's what I meant, we are not sure if we are getting 1 or 2 boat classes made in India. This is unrelated to the Brahmos purchase.

Like so:

Front Kashtan gone, 8-cell Russian VLS installed (same as used on e.g. Talwar and Shivalik)

That's 4 decks worth of depth in that position (i.e. around 10m)

I know about this if we are talking about ordering a new batch of Gepards with the UKSK VLS but keep in mind that they are talking about modifying the existing Gepards. That's a serious mod.

 

[X-2.]

China planned big for this

 

[Penguin]

Even considering that the Brahmos VLS is almost 10 meters long? I think that's one hell of a modification.

The missile is 8.4 m. It is essentially the same VLS as the Russian use for Club missile family, which vary in length, from 6.2 m to 8.9 m.

 

[Carlosa]

The missile is 8.4 m. It is essentially the same VLS as the Russian use for Club missile family, which vary in length, from 6.2 m to 8.9 m.

Yes, I know all of that, we used to discuss all these details. My point is that I'm quite surprised about all this to be done to an existing ship. That's a big modification and keeping the Uran missiles at the same time, wow.

 

[Penguin]

I know about this if we are talking about ordering a new batch of Gepards with the UKSK VLS but keep in mind that they are talking about modifying the existing Gepards. That's a serious mod.

The ship has a beam of 13.09 m. Look amidship. the Uran's launch racks are maounted on main deck level. Cover this area at main deck +1 level and use 2x2 or 2x4 deck mounted racks, as on e.g. INS Rajput. These are less steeply inclined than the racks for Uran, but longer but on the whole not much wider.

http://www.***************/pictures/data/3452/brahmos-rajput.jpg

Similarly, the Russians have trialled Yakhont on Nanuchka class corvette. These racks look very similar to those used on INS Rajput.

 

[Carlosa]

The ship has a beam of 13.09 m. Look amidship. the Uran's launch racks are maounted on main deck level. Cover this area at main deck +1 level and use 2x2 or 2x4 deck mounted racks, as on e.g. INS Rajput. These are less steeply inclined than the racks for Uran, but longer but on the whole not much wider.

Similarly, the Russians have trialled Yakhont on Nanuchka class corvette. These racks look very similar to those used on INS Rajput.

That would be one way; another way is to remove the Palma and to install the Brahmos VLS there, that's probably easier, but the air defense of the ship will be weak.

 

[Penguin]

Here's an example of a proposed variant of the Neustrashimy frigate, fitted with Yakhont deck launchers

as opposed to an URAN fit

This give a good idea of relative sizes: see the portion of the container roof that opens (Uran and Club mounted in same sized container).

That would be one way; another way is to remove the Palma and to install the Brahmos VLS there, that's probably easier, but the air defense of the ship will be weak.

AAW could be boosted by installing 2 Palma in place of the AK630s, or back them up with Gibka's. VLS would involve more deck- and belowdeck surgery, imho. I would go for my cross-deck option and then maybe put 2x AK 630 Duet (2x twin 30mm gatling), with 1 or 2 Gibka MANPADS launchers on the rear mast to boost AAW.

 

[Carlosa]

Here's an example of a proposed variant of the Neustrashimy frigate, fitted with Yakhont deck launchers

as opposed to an URAN fit

This give a good idea of relative sizes: see the portion of the container roof that opens (Uran and Club mounted in same sized container).


AAW could be boosted by installing 2 Palma in place of the AK630s, or back them up with Gibka's. VLS would involve more deck- and belowdeck surgery, imho. I would go for my cross-deck option and then maybe put 2x AK 630 Duet (2x twin 30mm gatling), with 1 or 2 Gibka MANPADS launchers on the rear mast to boost AAW.

Yeah, that sounds good.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

@Carlosa
If the first 2 boats of Vietnam navy is intended to be fit , I don't see a very big problem. The older and slightly smaller version of the same vessel used by Caspain Flotilla of Russia has been modified to carry and fire heavy Kaliber NK missiles.

Further the next 2 Ships under construction for Vietnam navy are an improvement too upon the earlier two , so fitting in a 8 cell ULVM capable of firing either BrahMos or a Klub won't be much difficult.

However I see @Penguin has went ahead and explained every thing.

Coming to another part , about 4 OPVs , as far as I know Vietnam has yet not selected their preferred vendor here , that's why I mentioned L&T and GSL , both shipyards. I belive it would be a sub 1500 ton vessel with primary focus on endurance and humanitarian mission. Weather they will include what type of weaponry and what facilities are to be kept for light helicopters has yet not been frozen ,but their are various design by each shipyard among which the Vietnam navy will chose from.

On the small patrol boat issue , their was an article 2 years back about India offering 12 Fast Patrol Vessels , and nothing has been heard thereafter. But last year L&T bagged a contract to supply some patrol boats to Indonesia, they said they were in talks with 2 more anonymous customers, lets see who they are.

Just wanted to know , what the future plans of Vietnam for its submarine fleet , more expansion ?

 

[Mo12]

This is a direct attack on China by India

I would suggest China supplies very powerfull weapons at very low cost to Pakistan to teach india a lesson

It already does with JF-17 and submarines.

 

[Carlosa]

@Carlosa
If the first 2 boats of Vietnam navy is intended to be fit , I don't see a very big problem. The older and slightly smaller version of the same vessel used by Caspain Flotilla of Russia has been modified to carry and fire heavy Kaliber NK missiles.

Further the next 2 Ships under construction for Vietnam navy are an improvement too upon the earlier two , so fitting in a 8 cell ULVM capable of firing either BrahMos or a Klub won't be much difficult.

However I see @Penguin has went ahead and explained every thing.

Coming to another part , about 4 OPVs , as far as I know Vietnam has yet not selected their preferred vendor here , that's why I mentioned L&T and GSL , both shipyards. I belive it would be a sub 1500 ton vessel with primary focus on endurance and humanitarian mission. Weather they will include what type of weaponry and what facilities are to be kept for light helicopters has yet not been frozen ,but their are various design by each shipyard among which the Vietnam navy will chose from.

On the small patrol boat issue , their was an article 2 years back about India offering 12 Fast Patrol Vessels , and nothing has been heard thereafter. But last year L&T bagged a contract to supply some patrol boats to Indonesia, they said they were in talks with 2 more anonymous customers, lets see who they are.

Just wanted to know , what the future plans of Vietnam for its submarine fleet , more expansion ?

Oh thank you, good info.

It seems like Vietnam is negotiating with European countries for more submarines.
The Italian S-1000 seems to be the one, they came to Vietnam for negotiations.

 

[hussain0216]

It already does with JF-17 and submarines.

More can be done, much much more

We have a good relationship with china but we buy and develop whst we need

If india jumps around too much China has a range of weapons that can be given at very favourable terms and we would naturally aim them at india anyway