Vietnam Defence Forum

[ChineseToTheBone]

However nobody threatens anyone with war. Unlike China that threatens PN, VN, UK and India with war in short succession.

Random contributors writing for the Global Times can hardly be considered authoritative.

 

[Carlosa]

View attachment 417677
Then Indians should not keep bragging about Supa Powa 2012, Mars probe etc. etc., and provoking neighbors for war.
.

A hear a lot of talking about Indian bragging but frankly, I often go to the Indian forum and I don't see that, what I see is mostly very nice people, very well informed and very courteous and polite. The bragging and the trolling that I usually see comes from the chinese members and one particular chinese from Singapore.

Its ok if Indian people brag about their achievements because, frankly, they have achievements to brag about that most other countries could only wish to have. Of course they also have to accept their failings and limitations and I see that many of them do.

Again, India is a country of contrast, I've been there, I've seen both sides, I tend to focus on the positive because I've seen a lot of it and I like it a lot. I understand that you have a different focus and perspective. No problem.

 

[sinait]

A hear a lot of talking about Indian bragging but frankly, I often go to the Indian forum and I don't see that, what I see is mostly very nice people, very well informed and very courteous and polite. The bragging and the trolling that I usually see comes from the chinese members and one particular chinese from Singapore.

Its ok if Indian people brag about their achievements because, frankly, they have achievements to brag about that most other countries could only wish to have. Of course they also have to accept their failings and limitations and I see that many of them do.

Again, India is a country of contrast, I've been there, I've seen both sides, I tend to focus on the positive because I've seen a lot of it and I like it a lot. I understand that you have a different focus and perspective. No problem.

Bragging means talking of accomplishments before it is realized or accomplished. You see a lot of that in the development of Tejas, Arjun etc. etc.. Their Russian second hand aircraft carrier is supposedly the best in the world.
Blowing up an innocent Thai fishing trawler and they were boasting and celebrating blowing up a pirate mothership until a lone survivor exposed their lie.
Shameless Indians lap up the congratulations for a tragedy by them.
.

 

[Carlosa]

Bragging means talking of accomplishments before it is realized or accomplished. You see a lot of that in the development of Tejas, Arjun etc. etc.. Their Russian second hand aircraft carrier is supposedly the best in the world.
Blowing up an innocent Thai fishing trawler and they were boasting and celebrating blowing up a pirate mothership until a lone survivor exposed their lie.
Shameless Indians lap up the congratulations for a tragedy by them.
.

Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.

The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.

We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.

You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?

Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.

The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.

We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.

You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?

Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.

All of em would have been good if they actually worked.
LCA is still not operational!

Arjun = only 11-24 produced... 70% imported,suffers design flaws and is less than capable infront of all modern tanks and remains grounded..

India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.

Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
What the ancients knew - India

Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1

The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal.

BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2

BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2.

Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full*

Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww

Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM

@Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra

Im sorry but do u even know where IVC is situated or where its main cities are situated? or perhaps where the ancient Taxila univ is or from where great mathematicians like Chankya or Panini originated from?

 

[Carlosa]

Im sorry but do u even know where IVC is situated or where its main cities are situated? or perhaps where the ancient Taxila univ is or from where great mathematicians like Chankya or Panini originated from?

I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.

 

[sinait]

Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.

The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.

We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.

You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?

Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.

There are more than 1 bad incident that Indonesia did.
Off my mind are a few examples:
Konfrontasi(or Confrontation, 1963–1966) when Indonesia attacked tiny Singapore in an undeclared war.
Genocide of communists in 1965.
Genocide of Indonesian Chinese in 1998.
Smog in Singapore and Malaysia every year from vegetation clearing by burning in Indonesia.

I think we are all very clear what constitute bragging and India.
Vietnam celebrating their achievement in Pisa test and International Maths Olympiad is not bragging.
India with their constant claims for decades that their GDP is overtaking China is bragging.
India on their ancient Verdic maths and Verdic science is bragging.

East Asians are good in Maths and Science that are essential in Engineering and Weapons development.
So far I observed, Singapore and Vietnam don't brag like the Indians do.
I base my observations not solely on this forum but on their media and Indian foreign workers behavior in Singapore.
These foreign workers, (but why only Indians) like to brag that they helped to make Singapore rich, forgetting that Singapore is rich before they came.
.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.

IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion.

Includes? lmao...It lies 99% inside Pakistan

Its sites are in Pak... and on our currency

I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.

Ur so called hindu civilisation resides on the ganges delta not Indus which flows entirely in Pak.

I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.

Its like vietnam claiming the anciet Chinese civilisation because of Chinese influence.

 

[Carlosa]

There are more than 1 bad incident that Indonesia did.
Off my mind are a few examples:
Konfrontasi(or Confrontation, 1963–1966) when Indonesia attacked tiny Singapore in an undeclared war.
Genocide of communists in 1965.
Genocide of Indonesian Chinese in 1998.
Smog in Singapore and Malaysia every year from vegetation clearing by burning in Indonesia.

I think we are all very clear what constitute bragging and India.
Vietnam celebrating their achievement in Pisa test and International Maths Olympiad is not bragging.
India with their constant claims for decades that their GDP is overtaking China is bragging.
India on their ancient Verdic maths and Verdic science is bragging.

East Asians are good in Maths and Science that are essential in Engineering and Weapons development.
So far I observed, Singapore and Vietnam don't brag like the Indians do.
I base my observations not solely on this forum but on their media and Indian foreign workers behavior in Singapore.
These foreign workers, (but why only Indians) like to brag that they helped to make Singapore rich, forgetting that Singapore is rich before they came.
.

I was using that incident with Indonesia just as an example, not to pick on them, but if you want to know, there are plenty of things from their recent history that I don't like, East Timor and Papua been just a few examples. Certainly don't like their burning season and plenty of other things. Anyway, they are not our point of discussion. Also, just so that you know, I have Singapore in high regard.

Why is Vedic math and science Indian bragging? The Vedic period is the precursor of Hinduism, the Vedic civilization is from Northern India and the Vedic period is recognized as one of the periods of Indian history.

I think we have different experiences with Indian people and there are certainly Indian people of different qualities and values (as is the case everywhere), so we have different perspectives. I do have respect for your points of view and experience.

@DESERT FIGHTER Where do you get that "IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion."? The Vedic texts are not translated? The Vedic religion is not known? Hinduism is not a derivative from Vedic religion? Are we talking about the same thing?

The Indus Valley civilization also included part of Afghanistan and northwest India.

Come on, its useless to talk to most Pakistani people about India, you guys hate India so much that you just deny everything that is positive to India no matter how clear cut it is. Lets leave it at this.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@DESERT FIGHTER Where do you get that "IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion."? The Vedic texts are not translated? The Vedic religion is not known? Hinduism is not a derivative from Vedic religion? Are we talking about the same thing?

Are u confused?

IVC has nothing to do with hinduism!
Vedic is nothing but a term derived from Vedas, a hindu scripture in sanskrit... which itself was developed in modern-day Pakistan.. so go figure.

Ur foolishly confusing IVC with hinduism rather than treating it as a civilisation.

Here decode this... maybe u are smarter than the people workin on it:

Decoding the mysterious ancient Indus Valley script will shed light on powerful ancient civilization
(Read the article on one page)

Linguists have cracked many tough scripts, from Mesopotamian cuneiform to Egyptian hieroglyphic to Central American Mayan glyphs, but there are a few ancient, mysterious scripts still in the field today, including the Indus Valley Civilization script of over four millennia ago, that are yet to be deciphered.

The undeciphered Indus script is carved in part with human and animal depictions and pictographic signs on soapstone seals, terracotta tablets and some on metal. Linguists do not know how many characters or syllables it has (estimates ranging from dozens to 958), they are not sure whether it is an alphabet (probably not), a syllabary (again, probably not) or a logographic-syllabic script that has words, concepts such as & and % and a small number of syllables (probably). Researchers are unsure which language was being written down in the Indus script, or even if it would be possible for such brief inscriptions to represent a complete language system.

The Indus Valley civilization also included part of Afghanistan and northwest India

Ofcourse it influenced parts of those countries but.. there is not a singlr notable IVC settlement present there expect a port in lothal india, bordering Pak.
.

Come on, its useless to talk to most Pakistani people about India, you guys hate India so much that you just deny everything that is positive to India no matter how clear cut it is. Lets leave it at this.

Yeah indians are fukin saints.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Alright, let's forget about the BS.

India is working on a QRSAM at the moment.

Requirement is to travel along the armoured corps, assault helicopters, intercept missiles, etc.

Might be of interest to VN.

 

[Carlosa]

Are u confused?

IVC has nothing to do with hinduism!
Vedic is nothing but a term derived from Vedas, a hindu scripture in sanskrit... which itself was developed in modern-day Pakistan.. so go figure.

Ur foolishly confusing IVC with hinduism rather than treating it as a civilisation.

Here decode this... maybe u are smarter than the people workin on it:
View attachment 417697
Decoding the mysterious ancient Indus Valley script will shed light on powerful ancient civilization
(Read the article on one page)

Linguists have cracked many tough scripts, from Mesopotamian cuneiform to Egyptian hieroglyphic to Central American Mayan glyphs, but there are a few ancient, mysterious scripts still in the field today, including the Indus Valley Civilization script of over four millennia ago, that are yet to be deciphered.

The undeciphered Indus script is carved in part with human and animal depictions and pictographic signs on soapstone seals, terracotta tablets and some on metal. Linguists do not know how many characters or syllables it has (estimates ranging from dozens to 958), they are not sure whether it is an alphabet (probably not), a syllabary (again, probably not) or a logographic-syllabic script that has words, concepts such as & and % and a small number of syllables (probably). Researchers are unsure which language was being written down in the Indus script, or even if it would be possible for such brief inscriptions to represent a complete language system.


Ofcourse it influenced parts of those countries but.. there is not a singlr notable IVC settlement present there expect a port in lothal india, bordering Pak.
.
Yeah indians are fukin saints.

No man, I understand very well that the Indus Valley civilization is a different one (also known as Harappan) and a different historical period. The thing is, Hinduism, and Yoga too, see themselves are originating from the Vedic period. If you study them from their perspective, you will see that, but their perspective is not recognized by many non Hindus, like in the case of Pakistanis. Much of their philosophy and teachings come directly from the Vedic period and their scriptures make references to the Vedic period all the time. Scholars have not translated the Vedic script, yes, but the ancient Hindus had a direct knowledge of the Vedic period and it reflects in their religious literature. I know you wont agree to this, but the Indians could argue with you about this forever.

Map of the Indus Valley civilization showing the major sites. You said 99% in Pakistan, not true. You said no major sites outside Pakistan, not true. You have a prejudice against India man.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.

Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
What the ancients knew - India

Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1

The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal.

BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2

BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2.

Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full*

Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww

Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM

@Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra

I just say, whoever saying India aka Bharat is uncivilized, they never read history of India.

But one thing, Indian civilization was at nose dive after fall of Mauryan and Gupta Empire.
But I must say we still survived. No civilization in human history survived after fall.

Romans are nowhere, Babylons are gone, Mesopotamia is gone.

But the basic instinct of Bharat still survived.

From Maurya to Marathas to Mordern India. That instict still survived.

 

[sinait]

No man, I understand very well that the Indus Valley civilization is a different one (also known as Harappan) and a different historical period. The thing is, Hinduism, and Yoga too, see themselves are originating from the Vedic period. If you study them from their perspective, you will see that, but their perspective is not recognized by many non Hindus, like in the case of Pakistanis. Much of their philosophy and teachings come directly from the Vedic period and their scriptures make references to the Vedic period all the time. Scholars have not translated the Vedic script, yes, but the ancient Hindus had a direct knowledge of the Vedic period and it reflects in their religious literature. I know you wont agree to this, but the Indians could argue with you about this forever.

Map of the Indus Valley civilization showing the major sites. You said 99% in Pakistan, not true. You said no major sites outside Pakistan, not true. You have a prejudice against India man.

Indians like to claim credit for all and sundry where credit is not due.
Like Buddhism.
Here is wiki written by Indians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakya

The Shakya (Sakya and Sakiya[1][2][3]) were a clan of the late Vedic period (1000-500 BCE).
The best-known Shakya was Siddhartha Gautama Shakya, who was the founder of Buddhism (c. 6th to 4th centuries BCE) and came to be known as Gautama Buddha

Annexation by Kosala
Virudhaka, as an act of vengeance, he invaded the Shakya territory, massacred them and annexed it.

Religion
It is uncertain whether, by the time of Siddhartha's birth, Vedic Brahmanism had been adopted to any significant extent by the Shakyans.
However, the bearers of this tradition, the Brahmins, did not occupy a dominant position in the area in which the Buddha preached his message.

How could Buddhism be from India when the Buddha's people are massacred by them.
More probably survivors of the massacre escaped to Tibet, Myanmar and Thailand.
The Indians themselves state, Brahmins are not dominant in areas the Buddha preach.
So who are the people living in the Buddha's time in the area around ancient Nepal before they are massacred into oblivion.
Most probably East Asians or Tibeto-Burman.
.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

@Carlosa Btw who saying India is uncivilized don't know 1000 years ago, from Burma to Indonesia to Vietnam all were part of Chola Empire.

Maybe that's why Malaysia still call there Admiral as Lakshamana.

And Indonesian region named Bali. We all know from where this Bali word came from.

Indians like to claim credit for all and sundry where credit is not due.
Like Buddhism.
Here is wiki written by Indians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakya

The Shakya (Sakya and Sakiya[1][2][3]) were a clan of the late Vedic period (1000-500 BCE).
The best-known Shakya was Siddhartha Gautama Shakya, who was the founder of Buddhism (c. 6th to 4th centuries BCE) and came to be known as Gautama Buddha

Annexation by Kosala
Virudhaka, as an act of vengeance, he invaded the Shakya territory, massacred them and annexed it.

Religion
It is uncertain whether, by the time of Siddhartha's birth, Vedic Brahmanism had been adopted to any significant extent by the Shakyans.
However, the bearers of this tradition, the Brahmins, did not occupy a dominant position in the area in which the Buddha preached his message.

How could Buddhism be from India when the Buddha's people are massacred by them.
More probably survivors of the massacre escaped to Tibet, Myanmar and Thailand.
The Indians themselves state, Brahmins are not dominant in areas the Buddha preach.
So who are the people living in the Buddha's time in the area around ancient Nepal before they are massacred into oblivion.
Most probably East Asians or Tibeto-Burman.
.

Tell this to Tibetans.

I am seriously saying tell this to Tibetans and check there reply.