Vietnam Defence Forum

[BoQ77]

Just arrival !!! C-295M

 

[Carlosa]

Just arrival !!! CN-295

Ole !!!

 

[William Hung]

Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.

BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:

Vietnam has very limited defence industrial capabilities in the air domain, largely restricted to the reverse-engineering of aircraft spares. Beyond this, Vietnam has been linked to technology transfer/offset deals with Russia over indigenous involvement in the production of 9M39 Igla (SA-18 'Grouse') surface-to-air missiles and SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles.

Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?

 

[Carlosa]

Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.

BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:



Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?

The version that has the winglets is the C-295W, that version started production sometime in 2014 (but I don't know exactly when), the one just received started production before that.
It also has uprated engines.

There were rumors that Vietnam asked for a joint project for the Yakhont, but I had not seen concrete evidence so far; the thing is, VN is using very few of those so far to justify local production I think, but I don't know what plans they might have.

Just arrival !!! CN-295QUOTE]

Does anybody know what happened to the first batch of 4 SU-30MK2 that were supposed to be delivered before the end of the year? Delayed?

 

[William Hung]

There were rumors that Vietnam asked for a joint project for the Yakhont, but I had not seen concrete evidence so far; the thing is, VN is using very few of those so far to justify local production I think, but I don't know what plans they might have.

The rumours has reached Jane's, or maybe they've got the Uran and Yakhont mixed up.

 

[Carlosa]

Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.

BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:



Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?

I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.

Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet

The rumours has reached Jane's, or maybe they've got the Uran and Yakhont mixed up.

I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.

 

[William Hung]

I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.

Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet

If it is true, then it will be for extending the range. The domestic Onyx version of the Yakhont is already well over 300KM. But since the Uran program has already moved ahead, it will be strange to run another missile program.

I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.

Yea, Jane's is usually more accurate than say SIPRI. Jane's sometime use insiders info too. SIPRI policy is to only use open access info that are readily available to the public, and you know how reliable those open access info are sometime.

So I'm quite puzzle about this info from Jane's.

 

[Viet]

Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.

don´t know, maybe the parts come later. or the winglets come from our factories.

Airbus Chooses Vietnam to Produce Its Airplane’s Spare-parts
The production will be started from August, 2014. Nikkiso Vietnam will produce composite spars for wings and composite shields for wingtips of the Sharklet device. These devices help save 4% of fuel consumption and are particular characteristics used in A320 aircrafts- the best seller in the world.

BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:
Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?

it is known that the army negotiates for technology transfer of yakhont since years, with unknown outcome. well, that is nice, if the russians finally agree.

Does anybody know what happened to the first batch of 4 SU-30MK2 that were supposed to be delivered before the end of the year? Delayed?

Kommersant newspaper says either november or december this year. seem we have to wait a bit longer.
Nga bán 4 chiến đấu cơ Su-30MK2 cho Việt Nam - VTC News

 

[Carlosa]

If it is true, then it will be for extending the range. The domestic Onyx version of the Yakhont is already well over 300KM. But since the Uran program has already moved ahead, it will be strange to run another missile program.



Yea, Jane's is usually more accurate than say SIPRI. Jane's sometime use insiders info too. SIPRI policy is to only use open access info that are readily available to the public, and you know how reliable those open access info are sometime.

So I'm quite puzzle about this info from Jane's.

The actual range of Yakhon is more like up to 500 km, but its software limited to 300 km for export.
Viet is correct, VN has been negotiating for it for some time, but we don't know the results.

It makes a lot of sense to have the 2 programs because one is subsonic and the other one is supersonic, that would be a double combo tech transfer.

 

[Viet]

a hypothetical question: when will we be capable to operate aircraft carrier?
Bao giờ Việt Nam có tàu sân bay? | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng

 

[Carlosa]

a hypothetical question: when will we be capable to operate aircraft carrier?
Bao giờ Việt Nam có tàu sân bay? | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng

You only mean to operate, not to afford, and you are assuming that there is a budget to operate and maintain the carrier right?

What type of carrier? Small? This is an Spanish carrier and amphibious assault ship, it operates 24 helos and Harriers (F-35 later), Spain has 1 and they sold 2 to Australia and 1 to Turkey. This is not too expensive, less than 1 billion, plus aircraft, very reasonable, about $100 million a year to operate and maintain (in Spain), 27,000 tons, 230 meters long.

The KA-28 ASW helicopter is 12-14 million. The carrier can be used as a ASW platform plus amphibious assault (it has a well deck inside for landing boats) as well as helicopter assault (good to storm islands in SCS). For amphibious assault it carries 913 soldiers and 46 tanks (Leopard 2), not bad at all.

VN is already buying from Spain, so no problem to buy it, its 100% made in Spain, so there is no issues.

This carrier at 1 billion (maybe less) and 24 KA-28's would be about $1.3 billion. Its affordable for Vietnam if they want it, but it would need AEGIS type destroyers to protect it.

By the way, did you know that Spain makes the cheapest AEGIS destroyer anywhere? 1.1 billion, half the price of a Burke.

Carriers bigger than this, it gets seriously expensive, the Gerald Ford is 12 billion plus billions for the aircraft and super expensive to operate and maintain.

Did I answer your questions?

Here you see it with 4 Spanish made AEGIS destroyers. Australia also bought 3 of those AEGIS destroyers, they call them the Hobart class, in Spain is the F-100 class. Spain has 5.

 

[Soryu]

I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.

Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet

I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.

Not sure, there was info about tech transfer deal from 2012, but no more info.

 

[Viet]

You only mean to operate, not to afford, and you are assuming that there is a budget to operate and maintain the carrier right?

What type of carrier? Small? This is an Spanish carrier and amphibious assault, it operates 24 helos and Harriers (F-35 later), Spain has 1 and they sold 2 to Australia and 1 to Turkey. This is not too expensive, less than 1 billion, plus aircraft, very reasonable, about $100 million a year to operate and maintain (in Spain), 27,000 tons, 230 meters long.

The KA-28 ASW helicopter is 12-14 million. The carrier can be used as a ASW platform plus amphibious assault (it has a well deck inside for landing boats) as well as helicopter assault (good to storm islands in SCS). For amphibious assault it carries 913 soldiers and 46 tanks (Leopard 2), not bad at all.

VN is already buying from Spain, so no problem to buy it, its 100% made in Spain, so there is no issues.

This carrier at 1 billion (maybe less) and 24 KA-28's would be about $1.3 billion. Its affordable for Vietnam if they want it, but it would need AEGIS type destroyers to protect it.

By the way, did you know that Spain makes the cheapest AEGIS destroyer anywhere? 1.1 billion, half the price of a Burke.

Carriers bigger than this it gets seriously expensive, the Gerald Ford is 12 billion plus billions for the aircraft and super expensive to operate and maintain.

Did I answer your questions?

View attachment 162902 View attachment 162903 View attachment 162904

Here you see it with 4 Spanish made AEGIS destroyers. Australia also bought 3 of those AEGIS destroyers, they call them the Hobart class, in Spain is the F-100 class.

View attachment 162920

YES, you answered my question. we should think of the long term. for a blue water navy, we will need 1-2 small to medium size aircraft carrier and a fleet of destroyers (6) for the south china sea and western pacific. wow, I like the toys from Spain. Looks fantastic. EXACTLY what we need. Seems your people can build great ships.

¡Viva España!

 

[Carlosa]

YES, you answered my question. we should think of the long term. for a blue water navy, we will need 1-2 small to medium size aircraft carrier and a fleet of destroyers (6) for the south china sea and western pacific. wow, I like the toys from Spain. Looks fantastic. EXACTLY what we need. Seems your people can build great ships.

¡Viva España!

Ha ha, thank you.
Well, thinking long term, it does make sense. I would say 2 of them, like Australia, 1 can be in port doing maintenance, etc and 1 always available for operations. They can be smaller or larger, that's easy. The cost gets serious when you get into much larger carriers with fighter jets and actually, the main cost even for the set up that Spain and Australia have is not the carriers, they are not that much money, but the escorts, the AEGIS destroyers, that's where the money really is.

The combination carrier / amphibious assault is very cost effective and having a lot of islands to protect (or to retake) it does make sense. Spain operates the carrier with 12 helicopters (ASW or transport for airborne assault) and 12 Sea Harriers that will be replaced with F-35B's later on).

The AEGIS ships from Spain are smaller than the Burke class, not everybody need a big 2 billion destroyer. Spain built what it needed and integrated the AEGIS system in it with a 48 cell VLS that can carry up to 96 missiles (2 air defense missiles per cell) plus 8 Harpoons. That's enough for most countries.
They are 6400 ton ships.

Yes, when it comes to ships, Spain does quite well and cheaper than most.

 

[BoQ77]

* Sources claimed that a few days ago, the An-124 has landed and unloaded the first batch of Vietnamese third Su-30MK2 regiments. These aircrafts will stay in familiar air base to wait for their air base to complete its new infrastructure. After the Lunar New Year, these aircrafts will fly to their new home base. By that time, all Air Defense Regions will have at least one regiment of 4th and 4++ gen aircrafts.