Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

How to get there, anyone know?
We are just back home from Tioman island, MY

Yen island is about 25 km from Nha Trang coast.
Best to take a boat. There are more islands in the near.

 

[Viet]

Leading Russian ship repair company opens representative office in Vietnam
12 July 2016 TASS


This is the first overseas unit opened, SSTC said.


Russia’s Shipbuilding and Ship Repair Technology Center (SSTC), the leading developer of shipbuilding and repair technologies, opened a representative office in Vietnam, the company told TASS on Tuesday.

This is the first overseas unit opened, SSTC said.

"SSTC is connected by long-term fruitful cooperation with Vietnam. The company has recently participated in development of onshore infrastructure for the submarine base in Central Vietnam and in the joint Vietnamese-Russian project of X-52 ship repair plant development," a company’s representative said.

SSTC sees the highest prospects for developing of research-technology and economic partnership with Vietnam, the company said.

SSTC on VietShip 2016, Hanoi

 

[Silent Knight]

Ok, that means the steel for the hull, etc. I do remember that it took India quite a bit of time to be able to make the steel for their warships.

The Molniya class is already modular, but I think the big prize in the modular technology is the Sigma class.

The Molniya is still built by old techniques, not the modular approach like SIGMA frigate. That's why we work with Damne to learn their shipbuilding technology.

I think that's a 122mm gun, not really sure. Its not an anti tank gun, but I imagine it will get used against approaching ships and as last resort, directly against landing craft.

That looks like the D-44 85 mm gun, one of the best direct fire gun for shore defense.

 

[Han Patriot]

.Still whole IAC-1 launched without warship grade steel? From where IAC-1 steel came, Mars?

Hmm, my last update on Indian warship technology was 2014, up until then, the submarine steel were still imported for the Scorpene sub. Am I right?

As for your DMR-249 aka Russian AB steel copy, it only came around 2006-2008, there were using your IAC-1 as a testbed. That's the reason it is delayed and still not complete till now.Good luck on trying out 'new' steel on your first carrier. I have read reports about quality and production issues, maybe you can enlighten us on this.

It was only 2010/11 onwards, you start hearing India instructing all new vessels to be built with Indian steel. Most likely production and quality issues resolved?

You want to know hw far behind you are?
http://gentleseas.blogspot.my/2015/04/submarine-steel-strength-implications.html
http://seesaawiki.jp/w/doramarine/

Seriously? And not Europe?

FYI,
http://www.isro.gov.in/indigenous-titanium-sponge-plant-operational

http://articles.economictimes.india..._kmml-isro-indian-space-research-organisation

If you read the article completely, you would know that the titanium production only started in 2015, and the 3 major sources of Indian titanium were Japan, Russia and China. I pointed out that due to cost reasons, China was most probably the largest source?

This is the reason China after wonderful semiconductor feb was demanding AESA in SU-35? But Russia said fuk u?

I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.

 

[vtnsx]

.Still whole IAC-1 launched without warship grade steel? From where IAC-1 steel came, Mars?

Lol, you chinese. LMAO.



Seriously? And not Europe?

FYI,
http://www.isro.gov.in/indigenous-titanium-sponge-plant-operational



This is the reason China after wonderful semiconductor feb was demanding AESA in SU-35? But Russia said fuk u?

Interesting

That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?

That's a hard question to answer for people who haven't being in design for large project. But I can provide you with some idea.

I know from Design experience that when you're building something small, there's less requirements on the physical aspect of material. But when you're dealing with much much larger object, then you have to take everything into consideration and that would require some big minds.

I wish I know all the answers for you but that would be a billion dollar answer.

I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.

Chinese are good at stealing technology from other countries who are better than them. Stop the bs. We all know you can't without stealing tech but you can't do it right. Just like the low grade Chinese steel and plastic. Everything you said are plagiarism. No-one should take the Chinese seriously these days.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-strongly-resembles-israeli-product/32108793/

Understand this, respect is earned through blood and battles and helping the weak. Not by stealing and copying other people's hard work. That's what a coward would do by stealing and copying other's hard work.

US earned a lot of respect by allowing the Jews escaped the German. They fought WWII and helped Britain. They built China. Without the US sending in thousands of jobs to China, you wouldn't be here talking to us today. USA made China strong to counter Russia. They could've shifted the work elsewhere and made other countries rich and powerful. They gave technologies and money to Japan and South Korea. There are thousands of things they have done. But you Chinese are brainwashed to believe in your selfish government and support their own cause, not yours.

Do you know why the US has the "Second Amendment" where no other countries have such a law? Wake up, Princess!

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Hmm, my last update on Indian warship technology was 2014, up until then, the submarine steel were still imported for the Scorpene sub. Am I right?

As for your DMR-249 aka Russian AB steel copy, it only came around 2006-2008, there were using your IAC-1 as a testbed. That's the reason it is delayed and still not complete till now.Good luck on trying out 'new' steel on your first carrier. I have read reports about quality and production issues, maybe you can enlighten us on this.

It was only 2010/11 onwards, you start hearing India instructing all new vessels to be built with Indian steel. Most likely production and quality issues resolved?

You was born in 2014? Thats why you have no information before that year? Firstly it was 2014, then it now reached 2010? Lol?

Start to learn more instead of banging your head.

And have you read the quality of Indian Warship grade steel? Please show here report.

You want to know hw far behind you are?

You know when India started to build single hull submarines? in 80s? Lolz, you have no idea. Do you?

If you read the article completely, you would know that the titanium production only started in 2015, and the 3 major sources of Indian titanium were Japan, Russia and China. I pointed out that due to cost reasons, China was most probably the largest source?

Largest source of which? Raw material or finished product?

There is a difference in buying raw material, and a finished products. Finished products always in 90s and early millennium was coming from France & Russia for space program, not China.

Start doing your research.

I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.

Your intelligence level is this? I am amazed.

The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.

The word is "semiconductor", not semicon. If you dont know how to type a word, then dont type it.

Secondly, if semiconductor fabrication is the criteria, then companies like Elta and Selex or Phazotron never able to develop AESA, right? Lolz. You Chinese, never able to understand the word R&D. Never able to distinguish between design, fabrication and manufacturing.

And BTW, that radar possibly find its way to Super Sukhoi (offering to Vietnam for SU upgrade) program, thats how Russia keep a tight leash of IPR over China.

 

[Silent Knight]

Meanwhile in Vietnam.

 

[Han Patriot]

You was born in 2014? Thats why you have no information before that year? Firstly it was 2014, then it now reached 2010? Lol?

Start to learn more instead of banging your head.

And have you read the quality of Indian Warship grade steel? Please show here report.

Erm, you do not know much about warship steel do you? I made a statement of what I know till 2014, which was you are still importing warship steel. Now, I am going to give you some update, your Scorpene are still importing foreign steel and your Arihant was also most probably made using foreign steel as well according to this article

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/385482/india-manufacture-indigenous-submarines-soon.html?mstac=0

Regading production issues, it was a news report from India which was talking about production and quality issues on the DMR steel, and that's why
a lot of projects were delayed. Well I was hoping you could prove me wrong, that's why I asked you to enlighten us on this issue, but it seems you are ignorant as well.

You know when India started to build single hull submarines? in 80s? Lolz, you have no idea. Do you?

You were building German HDW submarines under license. It's another screw driver tech thing. The steel was imported and you just weld up a submarine. So tell me how many 'indigenous' submarines you built before Arihant?

Largest source of which? Raw material or finished product?

There is a difference in buying raw material, and a finished products. Finished products always in 90s and early millennium was coming from France & Russia for space program, not China.

Start doing your research.

Your intelligence level is this? I am amazed.

The article clearly says Titanium sponge and it did say the 3 major source, which was Japan Russia China. If you want to argue, you can argue with that INDIAN news website. Btw, you are diverting the topic, the point is until 2015, all you titanium sponge were imported, which meant your aerospace components were all built using foreign material. So how can you call your space program 'indigenous'?

The word is "semiconductor", not semicon. If you dont know how to type a word, then dont type it.

I like to use the short form, and if you are so petty like a girl to argue over this, I don't care.

Secondly, if semiconductor fabrication is the criteria, then companies like Elta and Selex or Phazotron never able to develop AESA, right? Lolz. You Chinese, never able to understand the word R&D. Never able to distinguish between design, fabrication and manufacturing.

You are still not answering my question, those countries where the companies reside in all have semicon fabs. INDIA DOESN'T HAVE SINGLE OPERATING FAB, so where are the semicon made in?

And BTW, that radar possibly find its way to Super Sukhoi (offering to Vietnam for SU upgrade) program, thats how Russia keep a tight leash of IPR over China.

You sure about that?.Btw, why show me a Zhuk radar, the topic was whether India has got an AESA radar. The answer is NO. lol

 

[Bennedict]

That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?

I think mostly because of geopolitical situation bro, Vietnam needs to add more frigates and same time replacing old frigates in faster pace than most Asean nation because of recent provocation by China, so your goverment (maybe) choose importing large warship (frigates/corvettes) to minimalizing time than building warships locally, different case with Indonesia, we have better situation so we can build warships locally, in a slower pace.

Building warships aren't same like building commercial vessels, just because you have dozens commercial shipbuilders, doesn't mean your shipbuilders can suddenly build complex warship. Philippines can be prime example, they have a lot of large commercial shipbuilders, but majority are belong to foreign firm and they didn't have sufficient metal supply (mostly imported, CMIIW)

You should start from bottom, like providing continous supply of military-grade steels. Building 200-500 ton missile boats has been good start.

Partnering with foreign shipbuilders also important, there's a lot of available shipbuilders who eager to cooperate if Vietnam can offer huge chunk of moneys. example, Indonesia herself has succesfully built her first LPD Makassar around 2010's under supervision from Daesun Shipbuilding, Sigmas, and recently Chang Bogo subs, with extra cost. Singapore also provide extra chunk to build her Formidable frigates and Victory-class corvettes locally.

 

[Han Patriot]

Interesting

Chinese are good at stealing technology from other countries who are better than them. Stop the bs. We all know you can't without stealing tech but you can't do it right. Just like the low grade Chinese steel and plastic. Everything you said are plagiarism. No-one should take the Chinese seriously these days.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-strongly-resembles-israeli-product/32108793/

Understand this, respect is earned through blood and battles and helping the weak. Not by stealing and copying other people's hard work. That's what a coward would do by stealing and copying other's hard work.

I am going to proudly repeat myself again, China, begs, borrows, steal, copy, absorb, develop and innovate. Wake up! This is the reality of things and if you want to catch up with the big powers, this is the only way. We are a pragmatic race and the results are proving us right.

I still remember the days when people were laughing at us when we started our microprocessor program 15 years ago. We told them we want to make a supercomputer more powerful than the US with our won chips, that was our aim. They aren't laughing now, are they?

I still remember the Indians laughing when we said we are sending a man to space. They said China can never be the third country after the Americans and Soviets. That was 13 years ago, and now we are building a space station.

I still remember the world laughing when we said we want to build the largest HSR network on earth and make the trains ourselves too. The Japanese laughed at us, now we are competing with them head on in the world.

After digesting all Russian tech, the only real power left to compete with the US is China.

 

[Carlosa]

I think mostly because of geopolitical situation bro, Vietnam needs to add more frigates and same time replacing old frigates in faster pace than most Asean nation because of recent provocation by China, so your goverment (maybe) choose importing large warship (frigates/corvettes) to minimalizing time than building warships locally, different case with Indonesia, we have better situation so we can build warships locally, in a slower pace.

Building warships aren't same like building commercial vessels, just because you have dozens commercial shipbuilders, doesn't mean your shipbuilders can suddenly build complex warship. Philippines can be prime example, they have a lot of large commercial shipbuilders, but majority are belong to foreign firm and they didn't have sufficient metal supply (mostly imported, CMIIW)

You should start from bottom, like providing continous supply of military-grade steels. Building 200-500 ton missile boats has been good start.

Partnering with foreign shipbuilders also important, there's a lot of available shipbuilders who eager to cooperate if Vietnam can offer huge chunk of moneys. example, Indonesia herself has succesfully built her first LPD Makassar around 2010's under supervision from Daesun Shipbuilding, Sigmas, and recently Chang Bogo subs, with extra cost. Singapore also provide extra chunk to build her Formidable frigates and Victory-class corvettes locally.

Very good points man, thank you. I guess it will be step by step and it will take some time.
What can I say, we are impatient here.

 

[Viet]

TECHNOLOGY

The Quest To Identify Vietnam's Unknown Soldiers Pushes The Limits of DNA Technology

Advanced sequencing technologies are the centerpiece of an ambitious project to identify 70,000 fallen soldiers by 2020.

Vietnam, 1965

[Photo: Flickr user Manhhai]

CHRISTINA FARR 07.20.16 6:00 AM


"In Vietnam, religious traditions hold that the ghosts of the dead cannot rest without a proper burial in a place appropriate to the family," explains William Frasure, a professor of government at Connecticut College who has both lived and worked in the country. And yet, tombstones throughout the country still bear little else than the words "liet sy—chua diet ten," which translates to "martyr—name unknown."

The last unknown U.S. soldier from the Vietnam war was exhumed and identified, through DNA testing, in 1998. But in Vietnam, there are still upwards of 300,000 unidentified soldiers, and thousands more civilian victims who are still missing, buried in anonymous graves, rainforests, or fields. And scientists say that time is running out to identify these missing persons.

"It's been 30 to 50 years post-war; the relatives of fallen soldiers are aging," says Tran Thi Thanh Huyen of the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology (VAST). "Therefore there’s an urgent need for this project to be conducted."

The government in Hanoi is now investing 500 billion dong (US$25 million) into upgrading local DNA-testing facilities as part of Project 150, a collaboration between three institutions that aims to identify 70,000 fallen Vietnamese soldiers by 2020. The new facility is expected to open by the end of 2016.

If successful, this effort will showcase to the world how advanced sequencing techniques will expand the area of possibilities for the field of forensics. Next-generation sequencing, which replaces a 30-year-old technology called "Sanger Sequencing," is making it possible for the scientists in Vietnam to utilize samples that are degraded, dirty, or low-input. "With next-generation, we have worked up our clue game," jokes Dawn Barry, vice president at Illumina, the company that develops the sequencing machines. "Think of a lipstick stain on the edge of a glass."

The scientists in Vietnam are also learning from smaller-scale projects to identify war dead that have rolled out in Iraq, Thailand, India, Cyprus, and the U.S., among other countries. In some cases, it’s about prosecuting responsible parties. But in Vietnam, the stated purpose is to reunite older remains with living family members. That's challenging as many of the soldiers died young and childless, meaning that links will more likely need to be made to distant cousins or uncles rather than to direct offspring or parents, who may have already died.

The first step, then, is to establish a massive database of more than 1 million living citizens’ DNA, which includes saliva, hair, and blood. Those samples will provide a "reference database," which will be used to find familial links to the dead through a matching algorithm. It takes about three to six reference samples to confirm an identity of one missing person.


As part of the outreach efforts, citizens will also be asked to come forward with any eye-witness reports that might shed light on the identities of the victims. As Dr. Tran points out, DNA is just one way to identify people: Personal belongings, historical evidence, death certificates, and interviews with family members are data are also vitally important.

Before they collect data from citizens, the academic institutions in Vietnam received months of training from a global network of companies and not-for-profit organizations. Among them is medical-diagnostics giant Bioglobe, which signed a contract to transfer technology to the project in late 2015, as well as the Sarajevo-based International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP), which is best known for pioneering DNA-matching techniques in the wake of the Bosnian war, which provided key evidence for war crime tribunals.

Bioglobe, in partnership with European forensics company QIAGEN, will help the scientists develop a process for dealing with bone and teeth that might be contaminated with soil microbes, which makes it challenging to analyze what little DNA remains. That involves training in technology that can chemically break down their cells in bone samples, and wash away any contaminants.

"The components need to be compatible with each other to get the best results, says QIAGEN's Christian Starke. "(Especially) as the DNA is in bad shape by now." As Starke explains, DNA is influenced by many perimeters, including temperature and time. Neanderthal bones stored in a cave with a near-constant temperature will have almost no negative effect on the DNA. In Vietnam, the tropical conditions and high humidity promotes microbial growth and the DNA decays much faster.

Given the age and condition of the bones, tissue-based samples are no longer a viable option in Vietnam. ICMP has stepped up to guide the scientists in the exhumation phase so they avoid mixing up the bones of different individuals. The organization will also provide best practices on how to identify clues like gender. "We have gotten very good at getting DNA out of bone," says ICMP’s Director of Forensic Sciences’ Thomas Parsons. "And in finding DNA targets that tells us about human identity."

For bio-ethicists, some questions remain about how institutions in Vietnam will manage the vast store of health information that it will collect in the coming years.

Photo: courtesy of QIAGEN


"Someone is going to have access to that data or you can’t make matches," says Sara Katsanis, a researcher at Duke University’s department of Science and Society, who specializes in researching how DNA is used in human identification efforts. As Katsanis points out, this data could be used for a variety of nefarious purposes, such as surveillance or identity theft, if found its way into the wrong hands.


Katsanis says she’d want to see more transparency from the government on its data protection policies. Some countries with DNA databases, which are primarily used for the purposes of solving crimes, have recently declared that they will not retain innocent people's DNA indefinitely. In Malaysia, for instance, the government recently determined that those who are acquitted of crimes will have their DNA profiles removed from the database. A draft version of India's DNA bill was recently linked to the press, which has been criticized for a policy that would collect DNA from every person who is arrested without a limit on how long that information will be stored.

"No one wants data to be used against them," adds Parsons from ICMP, who also believes that it’s important to have a legal structure for preserving data and reaching out to families. With any kind of sizable undertaking like this, there is the potential to uncover discrepancies in family relationships. An example of that might be two siblings who believe they share the same parents, but are only half-siblings.

Dr. Tran from the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology says the data will be stored on an internal server, which will be shared with other labs when the project is fully up and running. And the academic organizations will hand off the reports to entities with the proper legal rights and responsibilities before any sensitive information is shared with family members.

Those involved with the initiative stress that they understand the enormity and gravity of the task. "It's not easy," says Cuong Nguyen, head of the Bioinformatics Lab at the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology, in a video interview with QIAGEN during his training. "We have to make it successful."

 

[Silent Knight]

Kh-31PD before a mission. Rumors had it that the VPAF has acquired at least 300-400 Kh-31 missiles, not to mention other anti-ship and air-to-ground missiles.

 

[Viet]

Meanwhile in Vietnam.

Remote controlled Igla or a similar shoulder anti aircraft missile, I guess.

 

[Carlosa]

A creative way to paint a map of the south china sea with the 9 dash line represented as a cow's tongue.