Vertical Launch Astra Based Air Defence System (LLQRM) Under Development

[kṣamā]

LOL. So what is the moral of the story ?

Moral of the story never bang your head to the dumb wall !!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Time is the essence. Instead of spending money and time on MK.2 of LCA invest the same in AMCA. LCA was a tech demonstrator and it was a reasonable success. No reason to built 100 of the same and induct them. You don't waste money on Honda City when you have money to buy BMW6.

we dont have money to buy a fleet of BMWs we will by a couple of them (as flagships)while a dozen of honda city (for the bulk oprations)thats bieng smart no harm in it

 

[Indian Patriot]

we dont have money to buy a fleet of BMWs we will by a couple of them (as flagships)while a dozen of honda city (for the bulk oprations)thats bieng smart no harm in it

I understand the need for boosting up numbers. India has a vast frontier and numbers are indispensable. But 5th gen aircrafts are a new revolution in warfare. It is like raising a brigade of archers with the best bows and arrows when the enemy has upgraded to flintlock rifles and cannons. Stealth is going to change the way air war is fought and IAF needs to keep that in mind. China already has stealth and b rest assured PAF will have them anywhere between 2020-2025.

Along with 5th gen India needs to upgrade air defenses. Having two types of SAM with the same range ie. Akash and Astra is not logical. Navy is going for 70km LR-SAM, IAF needs something similar. These days Anti-Radiation missiles have a range of 100km or more. 25km won't deter enemy aircraft.

 

[kaku1]

we dont have money to buy a fleet of BMWs we will by a couple of them (as flagships)while a dozen of honda city (for the bulk oprations)thats bieng smart no harm in it

Let's say scrap the LCA?

Replace the aircraft with double engine AMCA or FGFA. Then who do the air patrolling missions, double engine jets?
The world is already calling us fool after MMRCA, after this they laugh on us.

Even US use F-16 for air patrolling,, not F22 or F15.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I understand the need for boosting up numbers. India has a vast frontier and numbers are indispensable. But 5th gen aircrafts are a new revolution in warfare. It is like raising a brigade of archers with the best bows and arrows when the enemy has upgraded to flintlock rifles and cannons. Stealth is going to change the way air war is fought and IAF needs to keep that in mind. China already has stealth and b rest assured PAF will have them anywhere between 2020-2025.

Along with 5th gen India needs to upgrade air defenses. Having two types of SAM with the same range ie. Akash and Astra is not logical. Navy is going for 70km LR-SAM, IAF needs something similar. These days Anti-Radiation missiles have a range of 100km or more. 25km won't deter enemy aircraft.

well have told it earlier but looks like you have an irritating habit of asking idiotik questions again with trolling in mind

well let me tell you whats on PMO/DMs agenda
1. technikal envelope will be pushed to its limits on MK1 itself and ways are bieng devised to streamline it and reduce its wieght + AESA based Radar ,EW suite & self protection jammers are bieng devloped toenhance capabilities of Mk1 and it will be produced in large numbers (6 squads approx)

2. Work on MK2 is given more priorty and project will be completed in a record very short time

3. main focus is on AMCA and it will be the main stay / back bone of future IAF fleet

4. rafale will be FFB and not more than 4 squads will come to india

5. FGFA will come very shortlli much before than many thought before

now as for PLAAF well we cant as of now match them either in numbers or budget so we have no choice but to be ready to fight them of with whatever we have if there is such a scenario but we cant just drain of owr limited resources on a paranoia

Let's say scrap the LCA?

Replace the aircraft with double engine AMCA or FGFA. Then who do the air patrolling missions, double engine jets?
The world is already calling us fool after MMRCA, after this they laugh on us.

Even US use F-16 for air patrolling,, not F22 or F15.

we cant scrap LCA but we are tyring to make it better with help of some foriegn and domestik partners we are not pakistan who will get "help in return of war remitence or helping its bortherlli nations"

LCA MK1 will be made better and main focus is onspeeding up R & D on MK2 & AMCA and to have defnce from any agression air defence radars/missiles will get a booster shot till the production of indian aerospace industry comes into full steam ...any other questions ?

 

[kaku1]

Along with 5th gen India needs to upgrade air defenses. Having two types of SAM with the same range ie. Akash and Astra is not logical. Navy is going for 70km LR-SAM,

Ever you heard the difference between Barak-2 and Barak-8?

LOL you fool, PhD by nature is confidential. A Ph.D scholar does not go around bragging his research topic. ROFLOL!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And it is for the simple reason that research topics should not be plagiarised.

And that is common sense, basic knowledge. You will never get that. In which standard are you son?

Ph.D can be attained in any subject and I mean any subject. From nuclear physics to history of Indian textile. ROFLOL!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Man you are so pathetic. I am laughing hard reaing your stupidity.

Thanks for the laugh son, I owe you one.

Ok I call a real Phd guy, and I assure you he is definitely Dr. But still he doesnt have attitude like yours.@Skull and Bones

 

[sathya]

I realise the meaning of spark s status, once he had ,... Good use of ignore tool..
I never thought even I would use that..
It see it as very useful tool now., it saves you time and peace of mind.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Ok I call a real Phd guy, and I assure you he is definitely Dr. But still he doesnt have attitude like yours.@Skull and Bones

He's a Chutiya, nothing more, nothing less. He's probably the first guy to pass matriculation exam from his village, hence the arrogance.

If you're a PhD, there is no harm in discussing about research topics with outsiders, as long as you're not sharing the confidential data and methods. And once you're data is published, it's in public domain, just pay and download it.

 

[HariPrasad]

It is really difficult to argue with you. You are unable to argue in particular reference. You asked to prove that we got support in building up plane from other countries. I provided you the examples. Now you are saying that it is good or bad.

Are you talking about LCA MK2?

I don't know whether it is a good thing or bad. Almost all critical components are foreign. What is so Indian about the fighter other than the name Tejas? India is not going for joint production but buying technology and assembling it here. This is not how Indian aviation industry will develop, by doing a "screwdriver job". Indian scientists, engineers need to know how to design an aircraft, the engines, solicit the materials needed, research on advanced materials etc. etc. etc.

Which one of that are we doing? Ghanta.

 

[Indian Patriot]

It is really difficult to argue with you. You are unable to argue in particular reference. You asked to prove that we got support in building up plane from other countries. I provided you the examples. Now you are saying that it is good or bad.

All I am saying is that India lacks the resources or the intellect to manufacture its own weapons.

Take this thread topic for example. India has come up with a air defense system, a missile with a range of 20 km. This when a 25 km range Akash is already being deployed. So you have a 20 km range Astra and a 25 km range Akash which does not make any sense.

Akash is nothing more than a re-painted Russian SAM. Astra would be a genuine new concept built from scratch that's why so much emphasis is given on it. Induction of Astra can only mean two things, either Akash is a failure or it is obsolete tech.

well have told it earlier but looks like you have an irritating habit of asking idiotik questions again with trolling in mind

People who have a different opinion are "trolls". How convenient!

 

[IND151]

All I am saying is that India lacks the resources or the intellect to manufacture its own weapons.

Take this thread topic for example. India has come up with a air defense system, a missile with a range of 20 km. This when a 25 km range Akash is already being deployed. So you have a 20 km range Astra and a 25 km range Akash which does not make any sense.

Akash is nothing more than a re-painted Russian SAM. Astra would be a genuine new concept built from scratch that's why so much emphasis is given on it. Induction of Astra can only mean two things, either Akash is a failure or it is obsolete tech.



People who have a different opinion are "trolls". How convenient!

@sancho @Penguin

 

[sancho]

Take this thread topic for example. India has come up with a air defense system, a missile with a range of 20 km. This when a 25 km range Akash is already being deployed. So you have a 20 km range Astra and a 25 km range Akash which does not make any sense.

Of course it makes sense, since range is not the only important feature to consider here! Astra SAMs will be far lighter and smaller than Akash, that's why you can place them and a variety of platforms (from 4x4 jeeps to 6x6 light trucks easy for air transports), which makes the placement far more mobile and the whole system much cheaper.
Not to forget that both missiles have huge differences in the used warheads and propulsions, so in reality they are very different systems with different purpose in mind.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Of course it makes sense, since range is not the only important feature to consider here! Astra SAMs will be far lighter and smaller than Akash, that's why you can place them and a variety of platforms (from 4x4 jeeps to 6x6 light trucks easy for air transports), which makes the placement far more mobile and the whole system much cheaper.
Not to forget that both missiles have huge differences in the used warheads and propulsions, so in reality they are very different systems with different purpose in mind.

So in simple words you are saying Astra is a more evolved and superior system than Akash. Fair enough. So why not replace all the Akash with Astra? It is not like Akash has a range of 80 km while Astra has a range of only 20. Why invest time and money on building and inducting two different SAMs of the same range?

Akash - 25 km

Astra - 20 km

Only three Akash can be fitted on a vehicle truck/tracked chassis while it is unknown how many Astras can fit into one vehicle but since you say it is light and can be placed on diverse platforms I assume the number would be more than 3.

On paper it seems the Astra is a generation ahead of Akash. And pardon my ignorance but can you explain what "different purpose" can be achieved by fielding a SAM of the same range?

 

[sancho]

So in simple words you are saying Astra is a more evolved and superior system than Akash.

Actually I sad the opposite, highliting the superior warhead and propulsion capabilities of Akash, so please don't put words in my mouth!
Astra SAM is just a low cost addition to the Indian SAM capability, but not a highly capable one. You can see the same differences btw on foreign systems too, if that helps you to get a more rational look on this.

Compare Barak 8 and it's land launchers, to Derby / Derby ER SAMs, both missiles with active seekers and comparable range, the earlier however with a larger payload and different propulsion, used on heavier platforms, while the latter is used on Tata 6x6 in mixed loads with the Python V as part of the Spyder SAM system.

=> similar range, similar seeker => doesn't mean similar overall capability and purpose!

And pardon my ignorance but can you explain what "different purpose" can be achieved by fielding a SAM of the same range?

That's what I already did in my last post, using them on different platforms, locations or simply as a low cost addition to Akash SAM.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Actually I sad the opposite, highliting the superior warhead and propulsion capabilities of Akash, so please don't put words in my mouth!

You are saying Astra has a superior warhead and (superior?) propulsion capabilities of Akash, then why is it wrong to call Astra a better product than Akash?

Astra SAM is just a low cost addition to the Indian SAM capability, but not a highly capable one. You can see the same differences btw on foreign systems too, if that helps you to get a more rational look on this.

If it is Indian made then it is safe to assume it would be inferior to estern counterparts. But here we are comparing Astra and Akash. One is light weight, compact, "low cost", and has superior warhead and propulsion. While the other is huge, heavy, has inferior warhead and propulsion in comparison to the former. So WHY exactly is India investing in both the missiles?

One has 25 km range while the other has 20 km range. The thing Akash can do in its 25 km envelop the same thing can be done by Astra in its 20 km envelop. So WHY build both?

Compare Barak 8 and it's land launchers, to Derby / Derby ER SAMs, both missiles with active seekers and comparable range, the earlier however with a larger payload and different propulsion, used on heavier platforms, while the latter is used on Tata 6x6 in mixed loads with the Python V as part of the Spyder SAM system.

So Israel is using this funda it means India must also do same? And Barak is a naval missile, if Astra is a naval missile to be used by ships then it is fine, else using two land based SAMs makes absolutely no sense at all.

=> similar range, similar seeker => doesn't mean similar overall capability and purpose!

That's a self-contradicting statement you made and you have failed to explain in clear terms why India must invest in two SAMs of the same range. Why is duplication taking place? If Akash is good use Akash, if Astra is good then use Astra.

That's what I already did in my last post, using them on different platforms, locations or simply as a low cost addition to Akash SAM.

Makes no sense at all.